Track underlay for a new 009 layout

[QuietAndy]

Hello all.  hopefully after some advice please.  I am starting to plan for a start to track laying on a 009 layout in my small hobby room.  The question about track underlay has raised its head.  I know cork sheeting has and is still used quite a bit but i have noticed on several videos that some modellers are using the woodland scenics track bed system as they claim it to offer quieter running.  Now the questions are.

 

Is the woodland scenic system quiet vs cork

 

If i was to use this on my 009 would the OO or N gauge version be better suited for a 009 layout.  I am worried the n scale would be too narrow and the OO would be too thick?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Andy

[Dungrange]

Andy,

 

Welcome to RMWeb.

 

The important thing about noise is to avoid getting glue into the voids in the underlay.  Using cork and then filling the voids with PVA glue when ballasting simply removes any noise reducing properties that the cork had by making it rock solid.  This is where a latex glue is allegedly better, but at the moment I can't speak from experience.  I also can't confirm from experience that foam underlay is better than cork, but it's foam underlay that I am going for: a mixture of Woodland Scenics and C&L.  However, there are other sources of similar materials that others use, which are not specifically sold for model railways, but seem to be very similar and a bit cheaper if you require loads.

 

As for whether to use H0 or N, that is up to you, but if you want something in between the width of the N and H0 rolls, then you could just cut the sheets to the width that you want - https://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/item/ST1477.  The other consideration is thickness - I think the N gauge range is 3 mm thick, but the H0 range is 5 mm thick.  I think the thicker material should be better at reducing noise if that is a primary consideration.

[brossard]

I'm using WS foam underlay for my 7mm layout.  I'm also using Tacky Glue to fix the foam to the board and track to the foam.  I think this will help with noise since TG, while it looks like PVA, dries to a rubbery consistency.  I suspect TG is the same as Woodlands Scenics glue but much cheaper.

 

John

[QuietAndy]

Thank you for your input.  Looks like i will go with foam with a latex type glue.  3mm and 5mm is quite a difference in thickness.  I think i will go with N and the 3mm 

[Nearholmer]

Why do you need underlay at all?

 

009 trains are near silent, so presumably not noise reduction.

 

Its a serious question.

 

Kevin

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Why do you need underlay at all?

 

009 trains are near silent, so presumably not noise reduction.

 

Its a serious question.

 

Kevin

It’s not the mechanism that creates the noise it’s resonance from the stock on track through the board that drowns out the loco usually. To be honest I’ve found it’s equally the baseboard material that affects it with people striving for the lightest stiff construction acting like a drum skin.

Personally I go for cork or foam underlay with a 9mm ply frame well supported and glued together and it’s nice and quiet. Polystyrene and 6mm ply definitely benefitted from something soft to isolate track from the board if ballast wasn’t allowed to bridge over to make contact with it. On an earlier layout I used a wider second sheet of cork so the ballast shoulder ended on cork not ply. I used felt successfully on polystyrene to isolate Kato pre ballasted track. 

[Nearholmer]

I use good quality cork in 0, and given the old-fashioned nature of my current toy trains they still drown-out the radio, and I love the railway-like clatter!

 

But, none of the 009 layouts I built ever had underlay, and still you could barely hear the trains moving when in a silent room, and all except the first (an old door sawn lengthways in half) had plywood ‘box’ type baseboards.
 

Also, unless it is a very high class narrow gauge railway (e.g. RhB!) it isn’t likely to have a deep-ballasted formation, so adding underlay can make it harder to get the right “down in the dirt” look to the track.

 

So, it is a genuine question, prompted by the thought that sometimes underlay is used “because that’s how it’s done”, rather than because it is truly necessary.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Nearholmer

[PaulRhB]

Yes it's valid and like you say often with minor NG lines you might be more accurate to lay a sheet of cork as the main isolation and then more, to bring ground level up to the sleeper tops, either side rather than making a shoulder

It depends on the baseboard materials and construction, the ballast and glue used and sometimes it seems the black arts! Therefore I tend to use cork etc just in case as it's a lot harder to solve once you've ballasted the track and it suddenly becomes noisy  

[hayfield]

Paul has hit the nail on the head, baseboard design and materials play just an important part in sound reduction as does the type of underlay and glue used

[Nearholmer]

In cars, the ‘drumming’ problem is dealt with by bonding ‘squashy stuff’ to the hidden faces of panels, which might have application as retro-fit on layouts if things go awry - glue lumps of foam underneath.

[PaulRhB]

Dense foam or rubber will work as you say but do you want flammable foam next to some peoples wiring? 

On a side note I experimented on an old layout with a wood frame and polystyrene scenery to see how flammable it really was. The first two attempts with a naked flame failed, just slightly melted directly above the flame. I ended up soaking a rag in white spirit to get a sustained flame and it slowly took off. Once it was alight the smoke was copious thick black and no doubt lethal in a confined space. So I concluded our construction is fire resistant much like a sofa to matches etc but can’t resist a sustained source of ignition.