The Isle of Alnogg - Dogger Bank

[Player of trains]

Plenty have

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

This is clearly a fascinating "what-if?" subject area that several others have tuned into.

e.g.

https://external-preview.redd.it/Vtlhq3JLAGbpY1uTQA8l971eD_VtYHyr2eo5vNRWenY.jpg?auto=webp&s=ef397e276bd167daa4fda33d0c24309c7e51a53b

 

 

Also:

https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarymaps/comments/6m9xrc/map_of_doggerland_an_island_nation_in_the_north/

 

 

 

Indeed, plenty have but I haven't seen it actually applied to model railways aside from a few occasional musings here in the Castle Atching mega thread. I'm reworking a lot of the history but in my mind its more Celtic than Germanic and would be considered part of the British isles. It was been ruled by the crown since 1067 when William the 1st occupied to prevent the Norse from attacking and I imagine it becomes a dependency and later commonwealth nation.

Doggerland is a fun name but given the name comes from Dutch fishing vessels so a much older name has been needed, the original name of Tumm was supposed to be a corruption of the Latin name the Romans gave the island, Insulam Tumulis or Island of Low Trees, that name dates back to 2019 and as the island has developed I've been less happy with it. 

Alnogg came from wanting a similar name to Albion, and was originally Lalbion or Little Albion, Alnogg came about from trying any combination of sounds until one worked, only a day later did it hit me it was a fantastic Postgate Films reference with Noggin the Nog and the land of the Nogs. In this world Noggin the Nog is probably a historical epic 😆

[Hroth]

It might certainly have something of a "Manx" feel to it, and be a Crown Dependency like the Isle of Mann and the Channel Islands. I worry about its status during WW2, though being "less" close to the Continent it would have been imperative for the UK government to garrison and defend it properly.

 

I'm enjoying this thread.

 

The Lilac livery is no worse than Improved Engine Green.... 

[Caley Jim]

10 minutes ago, Player of trains said:

.......the original name of Tumm was supposed to be a corruption of the Latin name the Romans gave the island, Insulam Tumulis or Island of Low Trees, .....

Should that not be 'Land of Low Hills'.  I've forgotten most of the very little Latin I once knew, but 'Tumulus' means a heap of earth or low mound https://www.wordsense.eu/tumulis/ .

 

Jim

Edited October 20, 2022 by Caley Jim
Typos as usual!

[KeithMacdonald]

19 minutes ago, Player of trains said:

Alnogg came from wanting a similar name to Albion, and was originally Lalbion or Little Albion

 

Aha!

 

There is, of course, historical precedent, in the same way that Brittany (now in North West France) is derived in language and culture from the Britons of Cornwall. Still speaking a direct living descendant of Brittonic Cornish. See the Breton road signs.

 

How and why the Britons of Cornwall wanted to emigrate to Brittany is a bit off-topic, but it does have solid historical evidence that actually makes sense of the mythical Arthurian Wastelands, when the land was blighted and people needed to move out.

 

PM for anyone interested.

[Player of trains]

58 minutes ago, Hroth said:

It might certainly have something of a "Manx" feel to it, and be a Crown Dependency like the Isle of Mann and the Channel Islands. I worry about its status during WW2, though being "less" close to the Continent it would have been imperative for the UK government to garrison and defend it properly.

 

I'm enjoying this thread.

 

The Lilac livery is no worse than Improved Engine Green.... 

 

Rightly so, it was heavily bombed in both wars from above and bombarded coastally, aiming to primarily disrupt the rail infrastructure and oil and gas fields. Although it isn't as close to the continent as you would think, invasion was never a practical threat, although it didn't stop the island being garrisoned and heavy artillery emplacements built. Some of the aforementioned big C&SCR tanks found use in both wars on coastal defense trains and the C&SCR line along the south coast to Codstall was built as a strategic line in WWI. While I can's say how any invasion attempt would go in WWI or II, The islanders like to claim the last successful invasion was King Cnut in 1017, anyone else has merely taken up the lease and job of ruling, not like anyone actually wanted the job. The French and the Danes have tried to 'take up the lease' in the past in both the 100 years war and Fourth Anglo Dutch War but usually found themselves in a local tavern imbibing a lot of wine and forgetting why they were actually there. 

[Player of trains]

1 hour ago, Caley Jim said:

Should that not be 'Land of Low Hills'.  I've forgotten most of the very little Latin I once knew, but 'Tumulus' means a heap of earth or low mound https://www.wordsense.eu/tumulis/ .

 

Jim

Thanks Jim, Yes that is the name, I'm forgetting how I actually came up with it, I think it is in an earlier post my exact thought process.

[Johnson044]

Yayyy! Just realised your brilliant thread is active again! 

 

I do love your Beyer Peacock 4-4-0's

[Player of trains]

2 hours ago, Johnson044 said:

Yayyy! Just realised your brilliant thread is active again! 

 

I do love your Beyer Peacock 4-4-0's

 

Thanks Johnson, its great to be back! I absolutely love these Beyer 4-4-0s, they are pushing it as an off the shelf design as I think only the M&GNJR actually had them and Beyer knocked off a design the LSWR contracted them to build, but I'm not saying no to them. 

 

Also Yahooooo. I picked up a very lovely rake of BR livery Hornby six wheel coaches from the sorting office this morning. I've taken advantage of Derail's 30% off sale, personally I would much rather have the Hattons Genesis coaches, they are far more generic and very suitable for a company like the C&SCR that is fully capable of building its own stock. But they are not available unliveried and I think its a real shame to just paint over them, happy to paint over the Hornby ones for the price I paid but I do hope the Hattons coach range is available unpainted one day.

I am undecided what the final C&SCR coach livery will be, I had began painting my Triang/Hornby Clestory coaches in a LNWR plum and white livery but since getting fantastic results in 009 making teak coaches I am now thinking of varnished teak with NSR madder lake panels or waist and then a full madder lake livery for WW1 and the austerity measures that brought. Though I do think teak and plum panels could also work well. I have a Triang coach that is yet to be attacked with the drill to take the bogies off so I'll give that a go and see what livery works best. 

[Player of trains]

I was able to run the Hornby six wheelers at the club tonight, truthfully I think they're rather lacking and rather overpriced for what they are compared to what I've seen of the Genesis coaches but that means I can feel much less guilty about repainting them. As they are the BR crimson doesn't look all together that bad behind the red of the Class 1a. 

 

 

 

Printed roofs for these locos has been a bit ambitious and I think some brass replacements are going to be needed. Finnoch-Ven has already managed to develop a chip in its cab roof. 

 

 

[Player of trains]

Jutham & Nor'Haven Railway K class

 

I picked up another great acquisition from the sorting office today, a NuCast kit of the NER K class or Y8 under the LNER and BR, I think they are fantastic little locos and fit thematically, the NER though the dubious practices of George Hudson operated the J&NR as a main East West route on the island branching off the Isle of Alnogg Central railway at Slake Gruffyd junction and also owning a tangle of branch lines both standard and narrow in County Eastwich. 

 

Most of the classes operated by the J&NR were NER types constructed either at Darlington or on the island, as well as a lot of redundant types dumped on the island to eek out a remaining existence. The LNER for example transferred a lot of  Hull and Barnsley locos rather than withdrawing them. 

 

Some of these bespoke builds were the K class, the NER in this world built a further five more locomotives of the class in 1890 to work on the quays and docks it owned on the island, the number is far from set but this little thing will have worked on New Isle in Jutham before being sold off to my favourite light railway the GLR some time around the 1920s. 

 

 

The model runs well and it is currently in a tub of warm water to clean the gunk off, the plan is that the Island Ks were not rebuild and retained the marine boilers, so I think a few things will have to change, chiefly the smokebox door. Could anyone else tell me the major differences to the K class pre the 1904 rebuilds and were the changes pretty minimal cosmetically? Its seeming that way from the photographs. 

 

Thanks

 

Alec

Edited October 24, 2022 by Player of trains

[Player of trains]

Grinnensey Light Railway No.5, 

Ex NER/J&NR K class 

 

Hi again everyone, the K class has had a bit of a makeover now and I've finished it in GLR red. Grinnensey is a small tidal island at the entrance to Jutham Channel with a vibrant agricultural industry, the GLR was laid to the island in 1890 with a timber bridge over the channel, as a result the company was always willing to get its grubby mits on any light engines they could. When the J&NR began replacing the island K classes with Hawthorne Leslie diesels in 1922 the GLR purchased one and had it turned out in their colours by the C&SCR at the Tetra workshops. 

 

 

I am stonkingly happy with how this kit has scrubbed up, the lining is HMRS LNER lining and the lettering from a fox transfer sheet. The smokebox door 3D printed to replace the existing one to backdate the locos to the original condition with the traditional NER wheel darts, the back head was replaced with a 3D print too, I felt having the necessary details there was important with it being an open cab. 

 

 

 

 

Not entirely sure if the loco is finished just yet, I may still fit vacuum brakes and a Westinghouse pump for passenger working but No.5 will probably find itself working as a goods engine mostly. 

 

 

 

The carriage is one of the Hornby 6 wheelers I'm working on repainting with my teak method, a base of games workshop Zandri Dust and then several washes of sepharim sepia, I've never been very fond of the various teak shades model companies make and I find this makes a nicely worn and grimy varnished teak. I need to replace the torpedo vents and fit the coach with gas lamp pots and the acetylene pipework and generators so that's another job for the 3D printer. 

 

let me know what you all think and thanks for checking by again.

 

Alec

[Player of trains]

Good evening everyone. At least I think its evening at this time of year or is that only after 5pm. 

 

I've got a few items to update the thread with but first a question I'm hoping people can help with. I've bought two Bachmann O4s on hattons with view of back converting them to either GCR or ROD spec with the intention of them being sold to one of the island companies just after the end of the first great global tiff. Both of the locos are in BR Black and aside from the smokebox doors being the obvious are there any more changes I need to be aware of to convert them to pre 1918 builds? Chimneys seem to change across photos but I'm unsure if that's just perspective on the locos or not?

[Player of trains]

A lull in work and I'm back to railway work, I've had a good clearout of projects to make room for ones that actually should be finished, not randomly collected junk and half formed ideas. Why did have to compulsively collect Keyser kits? First things first the ROD's. 

 

The Chevrilshire & South Coast Railway always preferred large tank engines which would culminate in its Andromeda class 4-8-4t locos in the late 1920s but post WW1 the company found a need for heavy motive power with the variety of heavy freight tanks thoroughly worn out. Arguably ROD 2-8-0s were hardly an improvement given the state of the war surplus locos but they managed on the C&SCR system until the existing fleet could be corrected. Managed being the operative word as due to the tank engine preference the C&SCR had a distinct lack of turntables making the 2-8-0s somewhat unwieldy. 

 

The company would buy twenty off the War Department in spring of 1919 and three would promptly be broken up for spares upon arrival after the workshop team at Tetre shrugged at the state of the fireboxes. 

 

Model wise I have two BR spec Bachmann O4s, main jobs that need doing are replacing the chimneys and smokebox doors, I'm still unsure of other jobs that need doing and it should be a simple print and repaint. I don't plan on modding these locos too much which is unusual for me but I'm thinking some tender cabs should be provided for the North Sea weather. 

[Player of trains]

Quick check in, both ROD's are now dismembered on the workbench ready for masking and repainting. The original smokebox doors have been pried off and replacements designed and on print. 

 

 

 

Current plan is just for one locomotive to be in C&SCR livery with two different numbers on either side. The other one will be a bit more fun, again pushing the boundaries of pre-grouping like as I'll be modelling a C&SCR 2-8-0 sold to the Cottoness Wells and Colliery Company. Many of the island RODs found a way into industry in some way or another mostly though replacement on the mainline companies by the beginning of the 1930s. CWCC's one will have become a 2-6-2 with the rear axle uncoupled and rods removed to better negotiate the curves of the small CWCC system. Converted to oil firing what with waste from the refinery being so cheap and electric lighting. It should hopefully be a very different  prototype clattering over the mainline to the small terminal at Cottoness, although granted the layout needs building first. 

[Player of trains]

Ohh that was the 100th post. Well I was saving this for the occasion so lets be slightly late. 

 

The layout I mention is nothing more than sketches at the moment but I want to model sections of the C&SCR mainline including the terminus station. Jutham Citadel.

 

Jutham Citadel was opened on cleared land in 1845 in the city centre next to Jutham Castle linking the island capital to the Chevrilshire county town and earning its name. Initially just timber platforms the company would gradually erect a grand Norman-Gothic terminus to match the neighbouring architecture of the castle, think Conwy bridge, consisting of a glass train shed, booking hall, company offices and seven platforms. Four for through traffic and terminating services and three for terminating suburban services to the south coast of the island. 

 

 

 

 

I have no idea how I will transform this into a layout but this is how the station is laid out in my head with the station crammed onto land once held by warehouses used by the military, shops and sailors along Chandler Street. Three long bay platforms face South for the suburban traffic to the coastal towns on the south coast as well as sidings for the company bonded warehouse, those are usually found full of pastel painted vans depending on what fishing or agricultural season it is. 

 

Jutham Castle is still an active military fort and largely functions as storage for equipment but its guns still face out west over the harbour as they have done since the seventeenth century. The military sidings curve off the access points for the warehouse sidings with a short run round loop before swinging left and right onto Garrison Road into the castle courtyard and internal arsenal houses as well as warehouses along the river. 

 

 

[scots region]

Very intricate worldbuilding 

[Player of trains]

Tonight's Job the ROD Smokeboxes.

 

 

Took two attempts to print but the doors have come out very nicely and they are a much better option to paying out for the ROD spec model when I bought these two for two thirds the price of an ROD one in the Hattons christmas sale.

 

 

The locos will be oil burners and I've CADded up the tanks tonight for the tenders and I've put together a stones dynamo and electric lantern for the industrial loco and these components are on print now. 

Hoping to have these finished this weekend and move onto the next job. 

I have banned myself from beginning new projects until the current ones are finished, I had a major clear-out and mental unsticking recently and it has helped a lot and now I need to crack on with the list. the RODs were on the top as small jobs, and the next one will be finishing a LNWR carriage truck.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Player of trains

[Player of trains]

I am surprised the RODs have been completed to about 90% bar weathering and number plates, but weathering is easy to do in one big batch and the numbers are yet to really be sussed out so I am very happy.

 

 

C&SCR ROD

 

 

The C&SCR found itself in a pickle post WW1 with its fleet of usually capable six and eight coupled locomotives worn out by the end of 1918 and an apparent potential crisis beginning to brew. Funds were allotted and forty 2-8-0s were purchased from the War Department Surplus Board early in 1919 as part of a bulk order with the Isle of Alnogg Central Railway. 

The C&SCR took half of these locomotives and sixteen would enter traffic, the four that did not were found to be the worst of the lot and were broken up for spares. Elias Manning the locomotive superintendent was incredibly critical about the state of the fireboxes on those ones...

 

Most of the working sixteen would be turned out in the existing plain black with some getting the companies white and red wine lining but others just lettering. It was largely a decision made by the sheds with the Caustowe shed lining its allotted engines. 

 

A decision was made to convert the small fleet to oil burning while coal stocks were still sporadic and fluctuating, the company already had some knowledge and working experience with oil burning locomotives and the conversions were made relatively professionally with tanks fitted to the tender for fuel oil and atomisers fixed to the floor of the fireboxes on a firebrick pad. 

 

Eventually repairs were made to the home designed fleet and these locomotives would find themselves passed on. Industry being the main customer. 

 

Cottoness Wells and Colliery Company No.7

 

 

Beginning as a small colliery company with shafts sunk in the 1850s the Cottoness Colliery Company amended the Wells into its name around the turn of the century with the once irritating mining hinderance of crude oil turning out to be a very useful material and fuel source. 

 

The company had a smattering of Ex Island lines locomotives and industrials purchased from island builders and from the British mainland. No.7 is an Ex-ROD 2-8-0 purchased off the C&SCR in 1934 for lifting the lengthening tanker trains of crude oil out of the Cottoness basin. This was somewhat counterproductive as the locomotive was arguably a poor purchase, while strong it was heavy for the track and also too long. In 1935 the rear wheelset was decoupled turning the locomotive into a 2-6-2 with marginal improvement. 

 

I'm unclear on when this loco would have been withdrawn but it was almost certainly worn out after WW2 and sent to the knackers yard by the mid 1950s if not the early 60s. 

 

Overall I am very happy with these models, both are Bachmann rebuilds with the backdated smokeboxes I mentioned in a prior post and the oil tanks from the above post. The dynamo and electric lamp looks much better than I initially hoped as well and look reasonably convincing in person, I rather hope weathering will help define the black on black detailing in photos because as usual my lighting is terrible. 

 

Thanks for looking in again everyone, its fantastic to be pushing though the too do list. 

 

 

 

C.W.&.C.C No.7, the numbering was inspired by various Australian liveries. Yellow and Black diagonals felt somewhat too modern for this machine hence why it has black and white vertical stripes on its front buffer beam and dumb buffers. Associations were made to the Prime Minister's spats when it entered service. 

 

 

 

C&SCR 2-8-0, Shown here are closeups of the lining and unlined side. The loco will be numbered differently on either side to make the fleet look better than it really is. @Corbsis to thank for the White and Red Wine lining as I am finally making good use of a batch they produced for me early into the 2020 Lockdown. 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Player of trains

[RedGemAlchemist]

On 24/10/2022 at 19:16, Player of trains said:

though the dubious practices of George Hudson

Hmm. Maybe he had something to do with the illegal locomotive sale racket run by former KLR CME James Donaldson in the 30s-40s...
 

On 08/02/2023 at 21:54, Player of trains said:

Ohh that was the 100th post. Well I was saving this for the occasion so lets be slightly late. 

 

The layout I mention is nothing more than sketches at the moment but I want to model sections of the C&SCR mainline including the terminus station. Jutham Citadel.

 

Jutham Citadel was opened on cleared land in 1845 in the city centre next to Jutham Castle linking the island capital to the Chevrilshire county town and earning its name. Initially just timber platforms the company would gradually erect a grand Norman-Gothic terminus to match the neighbouring architecture of the castle, think Conwy bridge, consisting of a glass train shed, booking hall, company offices and seven platforms. Four for through traffic and terminating services and three for terminating suburban services to the south coast of the island. 

 

 

 

 

I have no idea how I will transform this into a layout but this is how the station is laid out in my head with the station crammed onto land once held by warehouses used by the military, shops and sailors along Chandler Street. Three long bay platforms face South for the suburban traffic to the coastal towns on the south coast as well as sidings for the company bonded warehouse, those are usually found full of pastel painted vans depending on what fishing or agricultural season it is. 

 

Jutham Castle is still an active military fort and largely functions as storage for equipment but its guns still face out west over the harbour as they have done since the seventeenth century. The military sidings curve off the access points for the warehouse sidings with a short run round loop before swinging left and right onto Garrison Road into the castle courtyard and internal arsenal houses as well as warehouses along the river. 

 

 

That's a VERY smart station. I love the design, to me has a very Midland feel to it.

 

On 28/10/2022 at 19:21, Player of trains said:

Grinnensey Light Railway No.5, 

Ex NER/J&NR K class 

 

Hi again everyone, the K class has had a bit of a makeover now and I've finished it in GLR red. Grinnensey is a small tidal island at the entrance to Jutham Channel with a vibrant agricultural industry, the GLR was laid to the island in 1890 with a timber bridge over the channel, as a result the company was always willing to get its grubby mits on any light engines they could. When the J&NR began replacing the island K classes with Hawthorne Leslie diesels in 1922 the GLR purchased one and had it turned out in their colours by the C&SCR at the Tetra workshops. 

 

 

I am stonkingly happy with how this kit has scrubbed up, the lining is HMRS LNER lining and the lettering from a fox transfer sheet. The smokebox door 3D printed to replace the existing one to backdate the locos to the original condition with the traditional NER wheel darts, the back head was replaced with a 3D print too, I felt having the necessary details there was important with it being an open cab. 

 

 

 

 

Not entirely sure if the loco is finished just yet, I may still fit vacuum brakes and a Westinghouse pump for passenger working but No.5 will probably find itself working as a goods engine mostly. 

 

 

 

The carriage is one of the Hornby 6 wheelers I'm working on repainting with my teak method, a base of games workshop Zandri Dust and then several washes of sepharim sepia, I've never been very fond of the various teak shades model companies make and I find this makes a nicely worn and grimy varnished teak. I need to replace the torpedo vents and fit the coach with gas lamp pots and the acetylene pipework and generators so that's another job for the 3D printer. 

 

let me know what you all think and thanks for checking by again.

 

Alec

That is ADORABLE! Fantastic work Alec! That coach looks brilliant as well. And I thought my teak method looked good...

Edited February 13, 2023 by RedGemAlchemist

[Player of trains]

Thanks Red Gem, its really appreciated. 

 

A quick question this afternoon but does anyone know the running qualities of the Heljan GWR 47xx Night Owls? I know their reputation for doing very good impressions of an Airfix kit but it's how well they run that interests me. Its a potential chassis donor for a project that is slowly coming together in my head. I was going to use more unfortunate ROD's but the 47xx choice hit me like a bolt from the blue last night. Furthermore does anyone have a battered Night Owl they'd be happy to part with?

[Player of trains]

Superpower on the island this morning!

I've begun to develop the C&SCR's large 2-8-2 mixed/freight tanks known as the Easterns after a certain ship (long story). 

 

 

 

I'm still hemming out all the details but these locos would have been built as direct replacements to the Class 1 0-6-0s of the 1880s being introduced in 1903 and eventually totalling a class of 25 by 1911built both at the workshops at Tetre and North British Loco Co. 

 

There's a huge Drummond and LBSCR influence on this design and I did look further afield for inspiration looking at the various Belgian State Railways designs derived off the Caledonian engines the BSR licensed.  The plan is to use a Heljan 47xx chassis as the basis for the loco as the chassis can be bought reasonably cheaply and given the reputation of the model a complete one doesn't cost that much more. 

 

 

I don't pretend to have gotten the Westinghouse equipment accurate but it looks the part and I am basing it off photos of its use on the LT&SR which is appropriate given its own large tank engines. 

 

It even looks correctly scaled with my rolling stock designs, rather looking forward to finishing this model off once I have a chassis to properly measure up for the model. 

 

Now if I've not scared you all the fact the 'Improved Eastern' hasn't left the drawing board yet probably should. 

 

Cheerio for the moment, thanks for checking in.

 

[OliverRowley]

Love it man!

The loco bashes are amazing! 

Love your J15 derivatives and the Adams loco is epic

[Player of trains]

A lot of the details have gone onto the Eastern tank now. I've got pretty confident about what printers are capable of so I'm happy to be printing details like handrails, pipework and lamp irons. 

 

 

 

I'm really liking how imposing the model is but also has a degree of elegance with the wing plates and curves and I'd be happy to pose it alongside the LT&SR and LBSCR inspirations. 

 

 

Main additions are a reworked dome and rescaled safety valves although they might be replaced with Ross valves. I've added splashers to the front driving wheel in front of the tanks and developed the cab interior. 

 

 

 

The cab interior has largely been made from the collection of kit parts I've built up from bashing about in Tinkercad. I can't say its complete but all the controls have a purpose in my mind and look the part. The cab will be printed as a separate component and will drop on which will make it much easier to paint the interior of the cab. 

 

 

The Eastern is probably rather close to being done now, if anyone can think of anything more that this loco needs or could have please let me know. I'll order the 47xx chassis needed later today and when that arrives I can begin to alter the design to fit the mechanism and a can't wait to begin building a few of these wee beasties let alone the Belpaire fitted Improved Eastern. 

 

[Caley Jim]

I note the clack valves have no pipes coming to them.  Will these be added in copper wire after painting?

 

Jim

[Player of trains]

3 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

I note the clack valves have no pipes coming to them.  Will these be added in copper wire after painting?

 

Jim

 

Ayep, copper wire fitted after the fact, mechanical lubricators are missing too but I'm waiting to fit the chassis first before deciding where to place those.