The Night Mail

[jamie92208]

IIRC Tom Clancy used such a manouver in one of his books to do some serious damage to sensors and parked aircraft on an Indian Aircraft Carrier .

 

Jamie 

[AndyID]

On 22/04/2023 at 04:30, Happy Hippo said:

Andy's influence is spreading!

 

 

Not a lot of spuds grown around here. Just lots of lentils, peas and beans, and wheat. Most of the spuds are grown in the southern part of Idaho which is even in a different time zone 🙂

[PhilJ W]

8 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I see that SWMBO has encountered The Great British Jobsworth at his/her finest.

* for some reason such individuals really don’t like it if you learn their rule book and start quoting it back at them, chapter and verse….

I just love it when some jobsworth starts mentioning elfin safe tea. As I have been trained in H&S I can usually run rings around them and leave them a gibbering mess.

[Happy Hippo]

We all awaited for the national alert at 1500.  What an anticlimax.  A feeble bleating, and all at different times.

[Tony_S]

10 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

some jobsworth

So someone on a till, probably who is on minimum wage or possibly zero hour contracts who had probably been told not to scan any out of date products is a “jobsworth”. For every person perhaps happy to purchase something past a sell by date there will be someone else making a fuss even if it is a bunch of flowers. In some supermarkets your job depends on how quickly you scan, how you greet the customer and loads of other requirements. It isn’t fair to criticise a till operator for some failure by someone else to remove or re tag as a short date product. 
The delivery drivers from Waitrose seem to have a quite a degree of discretion about keeping the customer happy. 

[The Johnster]

18 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

4-4-0s were large steam locos in the 1880s.

 

Yeah but most of them  weren't outside rigid framed types with forward carrying wheels mounted inside the frames.  Sacre's offering is a bit unusual, a straightforward expansion of the traditional Victorian outside-framed 2-2-2 or 2-4-0, just a step up in size rather than the sea-change in design to inside framed bogie 4-4-0s taking place everywhere else.

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Yeah but most of them  weren't outside rigid framed types with forward carrying wheels mounted inside the frames.  Sacre's offering is a bit unusual, a straightforward expansion of the traditional Victorian outside-framed 2-2-2 or 2-4-0, just a step up in size rather than the sea-change in design to inside framed bogie 4-4-0s taking place everywhere else.

 

Quite. This is the engine that made the step-change:

 

 

[bbishop]

6 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

I do hope that NHY 581 and the rest of the 'Swaggers' have an enjoyable day in Taunton.  Perhaps next year, my diary and family commitments will give me a leave pass to attend.

 

A slightly grey start to this morning which I hope will brighten up for the rest of the day.

 

Now the Hippo mug has been capacity tested, I can sit down and drink in comfort whilst watching the Welsh and French ladies battling it out at this afternoon's Women's 6 Nations Rugby.

 

Please do not confuse this wonderful sporting event with the rather more downmarket ladies tag team mud wrestling, shown at the same time, on the Redneck channel.

Sadly they now play on plastic pitches. Nothing turns me on more than a lady hooker with muddy knees. Bill 

[The Johnster]

37 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Quite. This is the engine that made the step-change:

 

 

 

And a handsome well proportioned beast it is, too, as were all Drummod's 4-4-0s.  The North British pioneered the inside-cylinder inside framed bogie 4-4-0 that became more or less a standard British product in the late Victorian era, but there was an earlier example, the Holmes 4-4-0, that was the first of this type in service.  It was notable for having disc rather than spoked bogie wheels, and no.224 of the type was the engine involved in the Tay Bridge disaster of December 1879, eventually recovered and repaired to be put back into service.  It was hauled to Cowlairs on it's own wheels, presumably having been protected in it's fall by the cage of the 'High Girders' section of the bridge that collapsed and took the train down with it.

 

The format was so ubiquitous that Whyte, in naming his wheel arrangements, called it the 'British', as opposed to the outside cylindered bar-framed 'American', beloved of cowboy movies.  British 4-4-0s tended to be free-running and good riders, generally successful, but the adoption of steam sanding encouraged several CMEs to revert to singles, albeit with leading bogies, for the fastest trains at this time.  Only one of these, the GNR Stirling single, had inside frames and outside cylinders, the Midland and GW opting for outside framed engines.  The nearest and most comparable to the standard UK 4-4-0 was the Caledonian's 123.

 

The advantage of outside framing is that more room is available between the frames for cylinders and motion, which may have been what was in Sacre's mind when he designed his 4-4-0, but it was an oddity and looks a bit of a throwback.  The GC eventually went for an inside framed inside-cylinderd single, and took up the 'British' 4-4-0 with some very successful examples.

[jamie92208]

51 minutes ago, bbishop said:

Sadly they now play on plastic pitches. Nothing turns me on more than a lady hooker with muddy knees. Bill 

 I take it that you are referring to ladies that play Rugby Bill. 

 

Jamie

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Holmes

 

Wheatley, you mean. Holmes was NBR Loco Superintendent after Drummond.

 

But my point was not that the Drummond 476 Class were either first or archetypal, rather that they were very were large for their age - 1877 - and particularly successful. They were the prototypes of Drummond's 4-4-0s on the Caledonian and London & South Western, and those of his successors on the North British and Caledonian, and his brother Peter's on the Highland and Glasgow & South Western; in these engines Drummond had a winning formula from which he deviated at his peril. (As his 4-6-0s sadly bore witness.)

[bbishop]

12 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

 I take it that you are referring to ladies that play Rugby Bill. 

 

Jamie

One day, Jamie, you will invest in a speelchucker.  Life will be so less interesting.  The answer to your question is "optional".  Bill

[J. S. Bach]

4-4-0s were long-lived over here, the last being built in the 1920s!! for one of the commuter roads out of Chicago.

[Happy Hippo]

32 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 

 

 

 the Midland and GW opting for outside framed engines.  The nearest and most comparable to the standard UK 4-4-0 was the Caledonian's 123.

 

The advantage of outside framing is that more room is available between the frames for cylinders and motion, which may have been what was in Sacre's mind when he designed his 4-4-0, but it was an oddity and looks a bit of a throwback.  The GC eventually went for an inside framed inside-cylinderd single, and took up the 'British' 4-4-0 with some very successful examples.

GWR 4-4-0 locos were not outside framed! They had double frames, which were placed both inside and outside of the driving wheels.  So the space available for cylinders and valve gear was less than you suggest.

 

GWR locos steaming ability/success came from the deep, between the frames firebox coupled to the Belpaire firebox and tapered boiler, a  successful combination they continued with for the vast majority of their loco fleet.

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

4 minutes ago, J. S. Bach said:

4-4-0s were long-lived over here, the last being built in the 1920s!! for one of the commuter roads out of Chicago.

In the UK, Maunsell was quite happy to use that same wheel arrangement in 1930 for the very successful Southern Railway V Class 4-4-0s, aka the 'Schools'.

[Canal Digger]

20 hours ago, rockershovel said:

On 20/04/2023 at 09:07, Compound2632 said:

 

Best wishes, Charles Sacré.

Sacre bleu! 

 

What part of "most large steam locos" applies? 

looks very smart to me

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

GWR 4-4-0 locos were not outside framed! They had double frames, which were placed both inside and outside of the driving wheels.  So the space available for cylinders and valve gear was less than you suggest.

 

True of many outside framed designs - typically the inside frame provided additional support for the driving axle - given the risk of crank axle failure. So double framed is a more accurate description. On the Midland in the 19th century, goods engines were broadly classed as DF or SF, referring to Kirtley's or Johnson's engines respectively.

[The Johnster]

57 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Wheatley, you mean. Holmes was NBR Loco Superintendent after Drummond.

 

But my point was not that the Drummond 476 Class were either first or archetypal, rather that they were very were large for their age - 1877 - and particularly successful. They were the prototypes of Drummond's 4-4-0s on the Caledonian and London & South Western, and those of his successors on the North British and Caledonian, and his brother Peter's on the Highland and Glasgow & South Western; in these engines Drummond had a winning formula from which he deviated at his peril. (As his 4-6-0s sadly bore witness.)

 

Turdycurses, another senior moment, but at least I'm old enough to have these now... Wheatley, of course, not Holmes.  Yes, Abbottsford was the progenitor of the very successful Drummond line of development, and these engines were fast, powerful, economical, good riders, all things a good engine should be.  Shame about the 4-6-0s, but I can't think off-hand of any CME who successfully negotiated this transition.  Webb, perhaps, George V to Experiment seems to have gone fairly smoothly, certainly by his standards...

[J. S. Bach]

41 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

In the UK, Maunsell was quite happy to use that same wheel arrangement in 1930 for the very successful Southern Railway V Class 4-4-0s, aka the 'Schools'.

Another advantage to the 4-4-0; it would track over just about anything as long as the rails stayed pretty much in gauge..

[Canal Digger]

OK, from my collection, a Wallwork 4-2-2 Cast Iron loco, Is it a representation of a Dean Single Achilles Class? If not what is supposed to be, or is it freelance? The Wallwork foundry was in Manchester.

 

I have a mental image of an Victorian/ Edwardian boy pulling this (there are a couple of vans to go with the 6 wheel coach), around the floor, wrecking the furniture in Downton Abbey.

[SM42]

Well at 1459 hrs everyone's  phones went off very loudly. 

Problem was that I was in the middle of a safety critical call with 3 children possibly in  immediate danger and I couldn't hear a word.

 

How ironic

 

I would have been rather upset too if I was making a call on my phone at the time the alert went off. 

It was a lot louder than I  expected and I wouldn't like that in my ear. 

 

I fear that it may be counter productive and cause people to switch it off permanently.

 

Andy

Edited April 23, 2023 by SM42

[Dave Hunt]

11 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Apparently there was also an incident (fatal, sadly) where a Red Top Missile was fired from an Aircraft on the ground when (IIRC) a leccy was checking firing lines on another weapon station using an Avometer (that contain nice big batteries).  The Aircraft may have been in a Hangar at the time, or the Missile was fired into a Hangar maybe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, that was from a Lightning but I can’t remember where it was.

 

Dave

[Dave Hunt]

3 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Well at 1459 hrs everyone's  phones went off very loudly. 

Problem was that I was in the middle of a safety critical call with 3 children possibly in  immediate danger and I couldn't hear a word.

 

How ironic

 

I would have been rather upset too if I was making a call on my phone at the time the alert went off. 

It was a lot louder than I  expected and I wouldn't like that in my ear. 

 

I fear that it may be counter productive and cause people to switch it off permanently.

 

Andy

 

Jill’s phone went off whilst we were on the M40 but not a beep from mine - same type of phone, same BT contract, both switched on. Obviously another great government system.

 

Dsve

[polybear]

4 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Yes, that was from a Lightning but I can’t remember where it was.

 

Dave

 

It was at the Woomera Range, down under in Oz.

 

[Dave Hunt]

19 hours ago, Northmoor said:

As they apparently are recently, with transponders turned off.  Very naughty, but probably one of Russia's lesser offences at the moment.

 

Years ago a colleague who had once worked at Leuchars, told how the QRA boys used to sometimes deal with the Russian "trawlers".  Apparently flying a Lighting straight at them at wave-top height then pulling up on full afterburner caused enough of a shock wave and vibration to at least scare them off if it hadn't trashed much of the delicate listening equipment on board.  Military aircraft even without firing a shot can be very effective by just being very, very loud.

 

We also used to do that to the Russian navy vessels that were moored on to a buoy about 20 miles east of Cyprus and got some rather rude signals from them.

 

Dave