"Welsh Highland Railway Developments & Progress"?

[cunningduck]

So far as the lorry on the crossing is concerned - See what the Paper Says. But be aware that Journalists often add their own truth.

 

I think the delay at Cae Pawb (the Network Rail crossing) was caused by missing their timetabled path, and having to wait for the ATW train to cross before they could proceed.

[Merfyn Jones]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/welsh/hi/newsid_9140000/newsid_9141600/9141648.stm

 

has a nice chunk of video footage (the English version isn't anything like as long)

 

Thanks for posting the link. I wonder if it is possible to record the news item (to CD ?) as my wife and the dog are on the BBC film. I think I must have been in the bar at the time.

A most enjoyable day.

Merfyn.

[RedgateModels]

the English version isn't anything like as long

 

any chance of a link for us english speakers????

[edcayton]

Wonder how long it took them to find a local who could speak Welsh.

 

Ed

[Phil Traxson]

Wonder how long it took them to find a local who could speak Welsh.

 

Ed

 

Not long, its the natural language in that part of Wales. Quite a lot of the children speak no english until they go to school.

 

Phil T.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

.... taking a vehicle without the owner's consent?

 

Being involved with highway works, I know that only the police may legally move an obstructive vehicle on the public highway.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Engineering Projects Manager,

Cambridge City Council.

 

 

Fair do's.

 

No Special Constables volunteering on the WHR then?

 

 

[Etched Pixels]

any chance of a link for us english speakers????

 

Afraid the English news didn't cover it except for a 30 second clip or so. I didn't keep the URL but a search on news.bbc.co.uk should find it

[edcayton]

Who censored my post without telling me?

 

Ed

[rockershovel]

It would be quite naive to imagine that those of us who don't live in the communities in question have understood all the issues that concern them. We think more visitors, meaning more jobs, meaning more general wealth. There will be plenty of people who have moved to North Wales to get away from crowds and bustle, let alone noisy trains, as well as the indigenous Welsh who will only see house prices rising further beyond their reach. Few developments and change suit everyone.

 

I spent two years in S Wales on a pipeline contract a few years ago and we had no end of trouble with the locals. Had the same thing in Aberdeen in the offshore oil development days, the world had moved on and they didn't want it, or wanted to control it for their own reasons, or simply resented that people were coming in and bringing things which they couldn't get locally.

 

life can be like that

[Etched Pixels]

I spent two years in S Wales on a pipeline contract a few years ago and we had no end of trouble with the locals

 

Yeah I bet - given even most of the Welsh government was against running a large pipeline through a few national parks and close to houses (good idea for a gas pipeline right ?). I think there was a lot of history there if it's the pipeline I suspect !

 

and they didn't want it, or wanted to control it for their own reasons, or simply resented that people were coming in and bringing things which they couldn't get locally.

 

Indeed - free prescriptions, affordable tuition fees, decent rugby 8)

 

Alan

[rockershovel]

It was the biggest pipeline project since the early 90s - the Trans-Lincolnshire line from Immingham to Peterborough is longer - but it's quite conventional in construction and come to that, it is a duplication of the existing route, not a completely new route at all, whatever the local press may have printed at the time.

 

There were some wondrous things to be seen over planning permission for 'barn conversions' ... I used to go out and establish the lines, define heavywall pipe or minor variations in the alignment 'according', and there were 'conversions' which were barely visible as grassed-over foundations in places.

 

the main problems tend to revolve around locals who tend to expect 'oil rig' wages for local work practices, which they are almost invariably disappointed in.

[Ohmisterporter]

Just to clear up something regarding the lorry deliberately parked on the level crossing. Who is responsible for dealing with this, is this an offence for the local constabulary or BTP? Or does BTP only cover Network Rail property?

 

Geoff.

[James]

It would be quite naive to imagine that those of us who don't live in the communities in question have understood all the issues that concern them. We think more visitors, meaning more jobs, meaning more general wealth. There will be plenty of people who have moved to North Wales to get away from crowds and bustle, let alone noisy trains, as well as the indigenous Welsh who will only see house prices rising further beyond their reach. Few developments and change suit everyone.

Very well put!

 

I believe that with the WHR there's also an issue of the powers still being in place - land which for anything up to three generations had been farmed was all of a sudden reclaimed by the railway. That must have been hard to take regardless of the legal position.

 

I remember reading that someone had based their PhD thesis on the economic benefits of the FR and how much it brought to the area. An intersting result, but I'm not sure that money is everything, not for me anyway. Quality of life is important and masses of tourists passing by your door probably wouldn't be ideal for most people. I think this probably applies to many parts of the WHR.

[rockershovel]

Railways are curious things. Then again, so are local authorities. That said, it's also true that long-dormant minerals rights have been known to be re-activated, to the displeasure of the local farmers; nonetheless, they will have at some point signed a deed incorporating that very provision. Access to gas pipeline, water main or overhead cable routes - a statutory provision, albeit rarely invoked - tends to be highly acrimonious. Just because you have been ignoring something, or deeming it to be irrelevant, it doesn't mean it isn't there. The local authorities put a lot of money into that line, once upon a time, and the requirement to get some kind of return hasn't gone away.

 

one thing which always causes friction with major construction projects is that benefitting the local economy doesn't necessarily mean that the overall structure of the local economy remains the same. It usually doesn't. I saw this in Cornwall in the 70s, when the establishment and expansion of mines like Wheal Jane and Geevor meant that incoming labour ( many of them former lead, flourspar and ironstone miners from the North East ) was preferred over the local labour which didn't have the right skills and at times, appeared intent on attempting to impose local practices. I saw the same thing in Aberdeen when the local unions were frozen out in favour of incoming redundant shipyard workers from Tyneside and the Clyde; the local men takimng the view that the benefits were theirs by right, and the investors feeling otherwise. Generally speaking, the people who have made money in Aberdeen - and there have been some serious profits made - have not been the businesses who were originally there, precisely because they were the least willing to adapt.

 

I've seen coal miners ranting and abusing at contract workers, calling them 'job-selling b*stards' and the rest of it, but simultaneously saying that these men had no 'right' to work at that place or even in that industry... even if it left them excluded from work entirely

 

it's all a matter of your point of view

[John M]

Just to clear up something regarding the lorry deliberately parked on the level crossing. Who is responsible for dealing with this, is this an offence for the local constabulary or BTP? Or does BTP only cover Network Rail property?

 

Geoff.

 

The BTP Wiki entry idicates that BTP have powers to police both Heavy and Light Rail "by agreement" in the England, Wales and Scotland, which indicates that a formal agreement is required between the rail operator and the force to allow policing to take place

 

Also there is the question in this case of whether the obstruction of the railway was a criminal or road traffic matter in the first case, as the level crossing appears to be on a private roadway.

 

Presumably the railway has powers to remove obstructions from the track in much the same manner as Councils remove illegally parked vehicles

 

John

[Oldddudders]

Just to clear up something regarding the lorry deliberately parked on the level crossing. Who is responsible for dealing with this, is this an offence for the local constabulary or BTP? Or does BTP only cover Network Rail property?

I believe that TOCs have to sign up to financial support of BTP, but cannot imagine the private railways coming in for that requirement. Hopefully that sort of (non-safety) regulation of the private lines will not come in my lifetime!

 

In this case the lorry driver was apparently making a point about an alleged unpaid bill, while the WHR & local police have declined to take the matter further, despite it affecting the WHR schedule on the day. We may draw our own conclusions on that.

 

A newspaper report is here http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news//tm_headline=man-parks-lorry-across-track-to-hold-up-welsh-highland-railway-launch&method=full&objectid=27577323&siteid=55578-name_page.html

[DavidH]

Cases are rarely as simple as they appear. Two things want me to make further enquiries; I'm sure I've missed other things worthy of enquiry.

 

1.

"But the work overran considerably, and his company went into administration before the job was finished." (from the newspaper report)

Can you pay a company that's in administration? But then, why didn't/couldn't the railway pay him a staged payment before the company went under? Was it solely because of the WHR/FR work that the company went into administration, or does this serve to distract from deeper problems?

 

2.

"... claims the dispute caused his company Porthmadog Demolition to go into administration"

But if he's got a lorry to park across the crossing, does that mean he's got a second company?

 

"the WHR & local police have declined to take the matter further, despite it affecting the WHR schedule on the day. We may draw our own conclusions on that."

The railway may have declined to take the matter further to avoid (1) making a difficult situation worse and/or (2) to avoid wasteful legal bills. I wouldn't draw any conclusions on the guilt or otherwise of anyone from the statement.

 

I should add that I know nothing of the case other than what is in the newspaper article, have no connection with the railway, and know no one involved.

[The Stationmaster]

It would appear that Mr Jones has something a history for 'following his own course'

http://icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/regionalnews/tm_objectid=16701460&method=full&siteid=50142&headline=let-me-park-my-diggers-or-i-ll-sack-20-workers--name_page.html

 

http://www.snowdonia-npa.gov.uk/home/parkauthority/press_releases_2009/press_releases_2007/pr_2007-03-15.htm

[rockershovel]

well, quite so. If a company employing seven goes into administration for the sake of £25,000 it is probably past saving anyway. It's also a general comment on the construction industry that the turn-over of small contractors is pretty hideous, and jobs which disappear under one name have a habit of turning up under another.

 

I also note from one of the other newspaper articles, reference to £3m-worth of plant and 20 jobs under that name.

 

I don't believe it's useful to speculate on this matter

[James]

If a company employing seven goes into administration for the sake of £25,000 it is probably past saving anyway.

Those seven employees may wish to disagree!

 

Slightly OT but for a small company that could represent a huge amount in terms of cash flow - with banks reducing overdrafts cash flow becomes a real concern for small companies. Where my wife works, a small company with around 30 employees, their bank has been keeping a real check on their accounts, as they have with other companies as they don't want companies to go under with large overdrafts.

 

To bring it back on topic I do wonder what the cash flow is like for many heritage railways. I think the way the WHR raised its capital, without borrowing, is key to the succes of the project.

[rockershovel]

having had experience of the turn-over of small companies and company groups in the construction industry, I don't believe it is useful to speculate on this from the information available. I'd be curious to know what other companies this gentleman owns ( oh all right, no I wouldn't, I really don't care at all ) because the newspaper article gives the impression of someone operating a group of companies - 20 employees and a fleet of machines worth £3m are mentioned - and this is nothing unusual in that sector. I'd hardly be surprised for those same employees to turn up in one of his other companies, or to find that they were self-employed or agency staff, or one of a whole range of things. I also note that the term used is 'administration' not 'receivership' which is rather a different matter. The information simply isn't there.

[The Stationmaster]

having had experience of the turn-over of small companies and company groups in the construction industry, I don't believe it is useful to speculate on this from the information available. I'd be curious to know what other companies this gentleman owns ( oh all right, no I wouldn't, I really don't care at all ) because the newspaper article gives the impression of someone operating a group of companies - 20 employees and a fleet of machines worth £3m are mentioned - and this is nothing unusual in that sector. I'd hardly be surprised for those same employees to turn up in one of his other companies, or to find that they were self-employed or agency staff, or one of a whole range of things. I also note that the term used is 'administration' not 'receivership' which is rather a different matter. The information simply isn't there.

 

Nor is it anywhere on the internet - I looked, hard. He does appear to possibly operate a caravan site as well and he is one of the sponsors of a local football team.

Anyway as far as the FR/WHR is concerned the simple question is was he or wasn't he paid? End of story and no doubt the FR/WHR Construction can explain should they feel so inclined; if they are not so inclined that is a matter of commercial confidence and entirely up to them although they might wish to protect their public reputation.

None of that excuses the fact that he behaved in an extremely irresponsible & stupid manner - and in my view should be dealt with accordingly.

 

 

 

[MichaelC]

 

Anyway as far as the FR/WHR is concerned the simple question is was he or wasn't he paid? End of story....

 

I know absolutely nothing about about this but it is possible that the issue might be should he be paid or not? and if so should he be paid in full? There is a comment that the contract(of which we have no knowledge)over ran.

[rockershovel]

well, quite so. There are a whole range of possibilities here. I suggest this whole issue be left to those in posession of the facts.

[StaffsOatcake]

Slightly off topic but

 

And over at the FR work continues on the portmadoc bypass. These photos taken at Minffordd on a recent trip show preparation work ready for the installation of a new bridge below the FR. This will mean that the FR will be severed for a few weeks whilst the bridge is installed. Also a couple of shots of Merrdin Emrys on the service train Enjoy