Le Tour 2020

[EddieB]

So we’re already through Day 4 of the Tour de France.

 

A more open field, albeit with lower British interest this year (especially sad there’s no G).  Let’s hope the regular nutters on the mountain climbs stay away or at least respect Covid distancing.  The delay pushing the race into September has already served up some inclement weather, so there may be an element of luck thrown in the mix.

 

Usual excellent live commentary and summaries of ITV2, if you can put up with incessant extended ad breaks.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Just about to watch the highlights programme as someone arrived this afternoon for a meeting just as it was getting interesting.

 

Strange route this year.

[NittenDormer]

Someone was having fun driving the wee unit backwards and forwards on stage 1.

[DIW]

2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Strange route this year.

Yes, three days cycling around near Nice, and the furthest the route comes to the north seems to be the run in to Paris at the end.

[bimble]

keep in mind this route was decided (including keeping it all inside France) long before the whole COVID-19 situation. Some stunning scenery so far this week!

[EddieB]

Well, they probably struggled to fill the “highlights” show today...

 

Still, it’s shaping up for a good contest.  At last there’s a chance that Peter Sagan could be beaten on the road (as opposed to disqualified) in the battle for the green jersey.  As far as the GC there might start to be the beginnings of the shake out as early as tomorrow - Bernal looks strong, but I have a feeling some of the other teams may get their tactics just right.

[Pacific231G]

On 01/09/2020 at 19:13, NittenDormer said:

Someone was having fun driving the wee unit backwards and forwards on stage 1.

That was the metre gauge CF de Provence (ex Sud France)  Apparently it was a special train laid on to watch the tour from though the commentary suggested that it had few takers. I did wonder about the wisdom of a train running constantly alongside the peloton and separated from it by just a an armco barrier.

The route followed the same railway in Stage 2 and in Stage 3 followed its upper end towards Digne after passing a lot of the rather dramatic viaducts on the former metre gauge Sud France line from Nice to Grasse and Draguignan that never reopened after WW2. 

The level crosing numbers suggest that Stage 3 crossed the CP then the short disused SG branch to Digne and then the CP again

Passage à niveau N° 713 bis

N85 Norante (CHAUDON-NORANTE)

Passage à niveau N° 30.

Chabrières (BEYNES)

Tunnel de la Clue de Chabrières (BEYNES)

Passage à niveau N° 697.

CHÂTEAUREDON

Col de l'Orme

DIGNE-LES-BAINS (N85-VC-N85) (entrée)

 

The scenery so far has been fantastic this year and I was fascinated by the NOEMA  (NOrthern Extended Millimeter Array) Observatory. 

 

There was also quite a lot of railway following at the end of Stage 3 into Sisteron, in the first part of Stage 4 and also Stage 5 following part of the same route from Gap on the line from Briancon. I normally look out for traces of old railways and Secondaires using old Michelin maps as a guide but Hautes-Alpes seems to have never had any railway apart from the two that are still running and, apart from a branch line that once ended at Nyons and the end of a short roadside tramway  at Taulignan in Drôme, and the former line to Privas in Ardeche there were none to look out for in Stages 4 or 5.    

 

So far the stages have shown some of the more dramatic scenery that one can see from French railways (and the helicopter shots made up for the complete lack of drama in S5 until the end) but also  I'm afraid, how dull its trains are  compared with a few years ago and the complete lack of goods trains or even wagons in sidings.

In Stage 6 look out for traces of the former Vivarais network.

 

If you're as interested in the scenery and railways as the cycling (to which I plead guilty) then the live coverage is essential ,though I set it to record and then watch it with enough delay to skip the ad breaks. So far, with the same pictures, I find Eurosport's cultural content better than ITV's

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Pacific231G

[NittenDormer]

On 03/09/2020 at 12:18, Pacific231G said:

If you're as interested in the scenery and railways as the cycling (to which I plead guilty) then the live coverage is essential ,though I set it to record and then watch it with enough delay to skip the ad breaks. So far, with the same pictures, I find Eurosport's cultural content better than ITV's

 

Apparently ITV4 can sometimes suffer from 'chateau-lag', where the  commentary team is stuck 1 château behind the one on view. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Very strange Tour so far. None of the major candidates seems to have team mates capable of supporting them. So difficult to make any prediction but Ineos seem just slightly more capable of supporting Bernal. I suppose this is all to do with a lack of preparation due to Covid.

 

And then there is the last stage before Paris, a time trial which looks very hilly. It could all come down to that one day.

 

Back in the day (when I lived in France), full live coverage would only be on the days of the big mountain stages. Probably for the best because most stages are not really interesting enough to sustain full coverage. The ITV4 commentators are struggling to find anything worthwhile to say most of the time.

[jonny777]

28 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Very strange Tour so far. None of the major candidates seems to have team mates capable of supporting them. So difficult to make any prediction but Ineos seem just slightly more capable of supporting Bernal. I suppose this is all to do with a lack of preparation due to Covid.

 

And then there is the last stage before Paris, a time trial which looks very hilly. It could all come down to that one day.

 

Back in the day (when I lived in France), full live coverage would only be on the days of the big mountain stages. Probably for the best because most stages are not really interesting enough to sustain full coverage. The ITV4 commentators are struggling to find anything worthwhile to say most of the time.

 

I agree it is not the TdF routine we have been used to, i.e. a couple of big favourites with their teams and/or lead out 'trains' sitting at the front for most of each stage; but I find it more fascinating because it is a little less predictable. I have certainly learned a lot about the politics of forming breakaways from watching entire stages. 

 

I watch some ITV4 coverage, but also Eurosport and their commentators are having similar problems. <Nostalgia Alert!> I used to love the old days of David Duffield commentary (not popular with cycling purists) when he would spend time telling everyone what he had for dinner the previous evening, and how the local blacksmiths would be called upon to repair broken bike parts in the early years, etc. I just marvel at the scenery when the race gets boring, and wonder what life must be like in some of the remote country villages with the daily visit to the boulangerie and boucherie and an afternoon with a couple of bottles of the local Vin De Pays. 

 

I have no idea who is going to win the race this year and TBH I don't really care; and I can sit and watch the race unfold as riders have good/bad days and the subtle 'races within the race' play out on each stage. The sentimentalist inside me thinks it would be nice to see a Frenchman win it after all these barren years; but even that chance seemed to retreat yesterday. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by jonny777

[Joseph_Pestell]

5 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

wonder what life must be like in some of the remote country villages with the daily visit to the boulangerie and boucherie and an afternoon with a couple of bottles of the local Vin De Pays. 

 

 

 

Another nostalgia alert. French gastronomy is not what it was. Most villages have lost their boulangerie and boucherie and other essential services.

[Andy Hayter]

And many restaurants buy in pre-prepared frozen or chilled food.

[Pacific231G]

Though I mostly watch Le Tour for the scenery and just to see France unfolding before my eyes (and of course to look out for signs of extinct and extant railways) today's Stage 9 was nail biting and I watched every minute (starting with just enough delay on my Tivo to spin through the ad breaks) . Even though I couldn't have named him yesterday I was really willing Marc Hirschi to carry it off. 

 

I did notice that track on the line from Oleron towards Canfranc has been relaid and apparently de-electrified. When it does reopen it'll surely be one of the most scenic lines in France.   

6 hours ago, jonny777 said:

I have no idea who is going to win the race this year and TBH I don't really care; and I can sit and watch the race unfold as riders have good/bad days and the subtle 'races within the race' play out on each stage. The sentimentalist inside me thinks it would be nice to see a Frenchman win it after all these barren years; but even that chance seemed to retreat yesterday. 

I think Le Tour has been for the French what Wimbldon has normally been for us. A sporting event we organise but haven't won for aeons (Apart of course from Andy Murray)  The Eurosport commentators came up with an interesting fact today which is that in the past twelve years British riders have had more days in the yellow jersey than those from the rest of the world combined.  That said, one of the things I like about Le Tour, is that the teams are not national flag wavers but sponsored by  companies  I've mostly only heard about from their cycling teams. So, it's not team Coca-Cola or team Amazon but a flooring company (Quickstep)  an insurance compamu (AG2R La Mondiale) or A Dutch-Belgian  supermarket chain and a Norwegian software firm (Jumbo-Visma )    

[jonny777]

I was quite surprised to discover that Ineos is a UK company. I used to like the attitude of the old Linda McCartney team, get in breakaways and try to do everything to liven up each stage. 

 

You are right about todays stage; very exciting and at last the main GC contenders decided to take the race to each other. It was sad that Hirschi couldn't quite hang on, but I loved his cheeky attempt to outsprint everyone at the end. He was the chap who rode with Alaphillipe and Yates on one of the Nice stages, and so he is obviously an up and coming talent. 

 

I suspect his time will come in the near future. I saw some old railway tracks in the Ardèche the other day which seemed to have been converted to footpaths, but they were deserted. I have filed the area in my brain for the future if I decide on a leisurely walking holiday. 

 

 

[EddieB]

Yes, one of those finishes where you’re shouting at the TV - such a pity that Hirschi lost out on what would have been so deserved a race win!

 

Always good to see a breakaway, but this year they seem to have upset the normal tactics.  For the second time there’s been a lone rider out there, which could have repercussions on later stages too.

 

Now for a rest day, followed by two flat stages...

[Andy Hayter]

2 hours ago, jonny777 said:

I saw some old railway tracks in the Ardèche the other day which seemed to have been converted to footpaths, but they were deserted. I have filed the area in my brain for the future if I decide on a leisurely walking holiday. 

 

 

 

I can give you some tips if the time comes.  We have quite a few abandoned lines - standard gauge and metre gauge.  The Ardèche was the first departement to have no operational standard gauge railway station.  That might change shortly but it's been a long wait.  

[Pacific231G]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

4 hours ago, jonny777 said:

. I saw some old railway tracks in the Ardèche the other day which seemed to have been converted to footpaths, but they were deserted. I have filed the area in my brain for the future if I decide on a leisurely walking holiday. 

 

I can give you some tips if the time comes.  We have quite a few abandoned lines - standard gauge and metre gauge.  The Ardèche was the first departement to have no operational standard gauge railway station.  That might change shortly but it's been a long wait.  

Hi Andy

Does that mean that the currently freight only right bank of the Rhone line is going to get some passenger trains at last? 

 

I generally follow Le Tour with the aid of a pre-war Michelin map, a current(ish) Michelin atlas  on which I mark the course of each stage, and an ancient and modern rail atlas. Apart from those with massive civil engineering works, like the old Sud-France lines we saw on stage 3 and the CFD Vivarais, metre gauge lines that closed half a century or more ago have generally left few obvious traces now apart from station buildings but the sadly large number of more recent SG closures often can be seen, especially as many have morwe recently been turned into Voies Vertes for cyclists and walkers. I did notice a couple of days ago someone cycling in parallel with the Tour on what was identifiably such a route. 

[Andy Hayter]

Plans are afoot to provide a service from Valence to Cruas, Pouzin and Le Teil and possibly south to Avignon and or Nimes.

 

Announced April 2019, there is still no confirmed date for the services to start.

[jonny777]

There was a lovely curved viaduct just outside Saint Leonard De Noblat station this afternoon. 

 

And Hirschi had his stage win.... what's not to like?

[EddieB]

On 02/09/2020 at 19:50, EddieB said:

Still, it’s shaping up for a good contest.  At last there’s a chance that Peter Sagan could be beaten on the road (as opposed to disqualified) in the battle for the green jersey.  As far as the GC there might start to be the beginnings of the shake out as early as tomorrow - Bernal looks strong, but I have a feeling some of the other teams may get their tactics just right.

Coming to the boil, we have three races developing - as well as the surprise packages, courtesy of Sunweb!

 

The GC battle is shaping up into an all-Slovenian affair.  Last year’s winner, Bernal lost too much time yesterday - it could be blamed on poor form, but I think he struggles without at least one “super domestique”.  While Ineos looked strong on paper, they have missed that role.  For the moment, the UK still has a contender in Adam Yates.  It could come down to the time trial on the penultimate day.

 

For the first time in many years, the green jersey contest is being fought strongly.  Were it not for being penalised, Sagan would be a mere two points behind Sam Bennett.  There could be fireworks this week!

 

Finally, the King of the Mountains is wide open.  The current wearer has been living on borrowed time for around ten days, unlikely to retain it over several more mountain stages.

[jonny777]

You mention Sunweb as a surprise. I think it is a kind of team revenge. 

 

I can't be sure but I reckon that Peter Sagan insists that he is team leader and all members of Bora ride purely to get him into the green jersey. 

 

Sagan used to be a member of Sunweb, and my theory is that they refused to ride solely for him, and so he left. Now they are doing everything they can to win stages and show him just what an "one for all" team ethic means, while at the same time trying to get as many of their riders (where possible) ahead of him at stage finishes in order to reduce his points gained. 

 

I have no problems with Sagan's points deduction. Head-butting another rider is a very dangerous tactic at 60km/hr. If it can be cut out by docking points, time, or even disqualification - then so be it. 

 

It is difficult to know who is targeting the polka dot jersey, but I would think Pierre Rolland is making a brave attempt.  I suppose Bernal could try, now he is well out of the GC contention.  Sadly, with Pogacar and Roglic being on such good form they may gain more points than the rest just because of their battle for overall winner. 

 

 

[Pacific231G]

Is it my imagination or is this year's course a much tougher one than usual? It does seem different from previous years but I've not followed developments in the other grand tours.

 

Listening to the R4 sports reports this morning it seems that cycling still isn't regarded as a mainstream sport, no mention of yesterday's stage at all.  This does seem odd given British cycling's rather rapid change from nowhere to rather greater significance in the sport than in tennis. Is is still regarded as an obscure northern sport along with whippet racing and cheese hurling?  Fingers crossed that nothing bad comes out of today's rest day virus tests. I've not heard any news on Prudhomme so hope that's good news.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Pacific231G

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, EddieB said:

It could come down to the time trial on the penultimate day.

 

 

Take that thought forward. If the two Slovenians hold their current positions, that time trial could result in there being just seconds between them going into Sunday's stage (Pogecec Pogacar is a better time-trialler than Roglic).

If that is the case, do we see the usual ceremonial procession? Or do we get a final stage that determines who wins the GC?

Edited September 14, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell

[njee20]

39 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

Sagan used to be a member of Sunweb, and my theory is that they refused to ride solely for him, and so he left. Now they are doing everything they can to win stages and show him just what an "one for all" team ethic means, while at the same time trying to get as many of their riders (where possible) ahead of him at stage finishes in order to reduce his points gained. 

 

Sagan has never ridden for Sunweb. He was with Cannondale (from their Liquigas days), then Saxo Tinkoff, then Bora Hansgrohe. Sunweb used to be Giant Alpecin, who Marcel Kittel rode for as their sprinter.

 

Those failure of relationships are well documented though - it befell Cavendish when he rode for Sky - he wanted a team built for him at the Tour, but they wanted the GC, and whilst they were happy for him to go for sprints, they absolutely wouldn't support it beyond the bare minimum!

 

Certainly an interesting race this year. Bernal's comments are interesting, his numbers are the same as they were last month, but everyone else is riding away from him. He's not feeling tired, but everyone else is better. In a year with a potenital for disrupted testing. I really hate to be cynical, but...

 

It's certainly entertaining to watch, Pogacar is a great rider, and I'm pleased to see Porte in a bit of form, finally!

[Joseph_Pestell]

26 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

Is it my imagination or is this year's course a much tougher one than usual? It does seem different from previous years but I've not followed developments in the other grand tours.

 

Listening to the R4 sports reports this morning it seems that cycling still isn't regarded as a mainstream sport, no mention of yesterday's stage at all.  This does seem odd given British cycling's rather rapid change from nowhere to rather greater significance in the sport than in tennis. Is is still regarded as an obscure northern sport along with whippet racing and cheese hurling?  Fingers crossed that nothing bad comes out of today's rest day virus tests. I've not heard any news on Prudhomme so hope that's good news.

 

 

 

It's certainly a rather different route from previous years with a different set of tests. But I think the main factor is that both individually and as teams, there has not been enough training and preparation due to Covid.