Le Tour 2020

[jonny777]

4 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Sagan has never ridden for Sunweb.

 

Which is strange because the Eurosport commentators were talking about it the other afternoon. 

 

When they mentioned it, the Sunweb strategy suddenly made a lot of sense. I wonder what they were referring to? I must have got the wrong end of the stick somehow. 

[njee20]

Yeah that is weird, you've made me check, but he definitely hasn't, even in his very early days.

 

Team history available on his Wikipedia page

 

Where Sagan has tended to win over his rivals was not his pure sprinting ability, necessetating long lead outs, but rather his ability to totally do without - getting into breaks on 'rolling' days, hoovering up all the intermediate points and still being there or thereabouts when the finish comes. So it's a bit of a weird comment by Eurosport, as of all of the big sprinters he is among the least 'requiring' of a dedicated team.

Indeed in 2014 and 2015 he won the green jersey without a single stage win. He's 'only' won 12 stages, yet has had 7 green jerseys.

Edited September 14, 2020 by njee20

[Joseph_Pestell]

Just been checking out the remaining stages. Apart from Friday, all really tough with plenty of scope for anyone to crack. So we could yet see a few big changes in the GC.

[njee20]

Yeah, agreed! Roglic looks very comfortable, but definitely some podium space up for grabs! TT on Saturday too, no idea what Pogacar (or some of hte others) is like against the clock.

[Butler Henderson]

Could all go wrong quickly for Pogacar, quite quickly gets isolated from his team mates and a mechanical at the wrong time will see him plummet in the GC standings. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

24 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Yeah, agreed! Roglic looks very comfortable, but definitely some podium space up for grabs! TT on Saturday too, no idea what Pogacar (or some of hte others) is like against the clock.

Pogacar beat Roglic in the Slovenian Championship.

[njee20]

2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Pogacar beat Roglic in the Slovenian Championship.

Which was an entirely uphill race ridden partially on road bikes. 
 

Edited for clarity, Pogacar changed bikes mid-race. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by njee20

[EddieB]

Well, we’re going to have a new winner this year - Bernal has dropped out, not taking the start today.

[Classsix T]

...having seen today's route profile, I can't say I blame him!

 

C6T. 

[bimble]

On 14/09/2020 at 11:23, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Take that thought forward. If the two Slovenians hold their current positions, that time trial could result in there being just seconds between them going into Sunday's stage (Pogecec Pogacar is a better time-trialler than Roglic).

If that is the case, do we see the usual ceremonial procession? Or do we get a final stage that determines who wins the GC?

 

I think in the case of the GC the last stage is ceremonial (as long as the Yellow jersey finishes), and it would be unlikely for a contender to be allowed into a breakaway in an attempt to get any time. Apart from the fact that breakaways have very rarely succeeded on the last stage. It's almost always a sprinter's finish (now we might see the Green jersey decided).

 

It wouldn't surprise me that they neutralised the times if Jumbo-Visma wanted to take a team photo cycling down the Champs Elysees crossing the line in the way Team Sky did once the peloton had gone through.

[njee20]

The last stage is pan flat too, so even if Jumbo Visma let Pogacar go up the road he’d never stay away from the bunch, nor outsprint the sprinters. The TT is the last chance to mix it up, barring disaster in Paris. 

[Butler Henderson]

Last stage is definitely ceremonial bar the sprint at the end, one of the many unwritten rules of TdF. Typically there will be fake attacks off the front and come the circuit in Paris one or two way down in the GC will attempt a breakaway which fails leaving it for a battle between whatever sprinters are left.

[Pacific231G]

A couple of France's more alpine railways at either end of today's stage. We did get to see quite a lot of the Maurienne line yesterday. It was also curious to see the trolley wires in Greoble's outer suburbs at the start of the stage. These were of course modern but were on part of the route of an "electrobus" that took over from a rural roadside tramway fairly early on.

The start of today's stage also follows the route of the short roadside tramway   that ran from BRIDES-LES-BAINS via Salins-les-Thermes to MOÛTIERS.

 

This was originally steam then electric before being replaced by an "electrobus" that also used trolley lorries to maintain its goods services. There won't be a trace of any of this of course but it's interesting to know what was once on Le Tour's parcours. 

[EddieB]

Well, I guess it had to happen.  You knew that Hirschi would be aiming at another “big day”, so it was no surprise to see him in the breakaway group yesterday - and hoovering up KOM points to finish up in the polka dot jersey.  That was until he seemed to have an exchange of words on the road, reacting by speeding up and going too fast into a corner, with perhaps an inevitable result.  Thanks to that crash, it was a stage win for team Ineos and their man Carapaz taking the jersey.

 

Interesting comments on the TV coverage, showing that Hirschi’s top took the brunt of the fall, yet emerged undamaged - made from fibres stronger than Kevlar, apparently.

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

30 minutes ago, EddieB said:

Well, I guess it had to happen.  You knew that Hirschi would be aiming at another “big day”, so it was no surprise to see him in the breakaway group yesterday - and hoovering up KOM points to finish up in the polka dot jersey.  That was until he seemed to have an exchange of words on the road, reacting by speeding up and going too fast into a corner, with perhaps an inevitable result.  Thanks to that crash, it was a stage win for team Ineos and their man Carapaz taking the jersey.

 

Interesting comments on the TV coverage, showing that Hirschi’s top took the brunt of the fall, yet emerged undamaged - made from fibres stronger than Kevlar, apparently.

 

 

Much stronger than Kevlar. It's called Dyneema. Sunweb are the first team to use this material in clothing. It is incorporated into the jersey fabric and a base layer. It was only announced last month. Looking at the difference between his shorts and his jersey after the crash it does seem to live up to the claims made for it. No rips on the jersey. Not even a mark.

Bernard

[Pacific231G]

2 hours ago, EddieB said:

Well, I guess it had to happen.  You knew that Hirschi would be aiming at another “big day”, so it was no surprise to see him in the breakaway group yesterday - and hoovering up KOM points to finish up in the polka dot jersey.  That was until he seemed to have an exchange of words on the road, reacting by speeding up and going too fast into a corner, with perhaps an inevitable result.  Thanks to that crash, it was a stage win for team Ineos and their man Carapaz taking the jersey.

 

Interesting comments on the TV coverage, showing that Hirschi’s top took the brunt of the fall, yet emerged undamaged - made from fibres stronger than Kevlar, apparently.

 

 

I loved the ending of yesterday's Stage; real sportsmanship between Kwiatkowski and Carapaz. almost spoiled by that idiot "fan". Given the current situation the behaviour of some of the so called fans has been even more asinine than usual- France's answer to football hooligans. They seem far more interested in getting their stupid unmasked faces on the tele. than in the race. It's almost as if they want to spread the virus. 

 

It was Interesting that, after believing that Kwiatkowski and Carapaz would race each other for the finish it, Eurosport were sure that the two of them had decided that Kwiatkowski should take the Stage while ITV4 thought they'd left it to chance as they crossed together.

The new fabric Dyneema that Hirschi was wearing sounds interesting.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Pacific231G

[EddieB]

Agree about the idiot fan near yesterday’s finish, as well as the various morons and teletubbies still out on the road to the summit of the biggest climb - pity that the earlier ban wasn’t extended.  Apart from the lack of masks, they are a danger to the riders and the progress of the race - as we have seen in previous years.  They aren’t fans, but publicity seekers - pity they’re not named, shamed and banned.

 

Which I guess leads on to the other inevitability of yesterday’s stage - if anyone was going to hit a problem on the gravel it had to be Richie Porte.  Thankfully he was able to recover his place.

[Pacific231G]

Fantastic views of the Viaduct de Cize yesterday. though we only saw a TER "suppositoire" rather than a TGV Duplex crossing it.

2011 image by David Gubler CC BY-SA3.0

 

I couldn't understand why the level crossing listed as 0.5km out on the time sheet wasn't appearing till I realised it was really only about 200-250m on the final straight to the finish and had been temporarily filled in with the barriers removed. The line in that direction from Champagnole is closed for refurbishment for another week or so so no danger of trains getting in the way of Le Tour. I assume the ASO liaise with SNCF etc about train times when planning  the route and you do sometimes see notes in the local TER timetables that trains have been retimed or cancelled because of the Tour. Champagnole was of course the home of Jouef before Hornby took it over so a goodly proportion of my H0 rolling stock was built there. 

 

Those interested in aviation will have noticed the Robin doing a high speed taxi along the Champagnole-Crotenay Aerodrome runway yesterday but I noticed that Thursday's stage started on the runway of the Meribel Altiport- an aerodrome with a very short runway (~400m for Meribel) on a steep slope (~10% for Meribel) that you take off from downhill and land on uphill and once you're commited to either you have to continue; there are no go arounds. Doesn't look too problematic for this light aircraft except that on landing you need to apply power to get to the top but it can also take private jets. .

https://youtu.be/J7Vlq-P4V0w

The best know of these is Courcheval which is fairly close and with an even steeper 530M runway used to have scheduled services.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISbZGQGoxzk

(the beep beep is the stall warner)

 

Is all this off topic for a  topic about Le Tour 2020?  Maybe not when you consider that showing off France is why both national and local governments have long supported it and why the TV coverage spends so much time looking at towns, chateaux, dramatic scenery and other sites of interest; sometimes to the obvious irritation of the commentators.

 

 

 

[EddieB]

2 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Is all this off topic for a  topic about Le Tour 2020?  Maybe not when you consider that showing off France is why both national and local governments have long supported it and why the TV coverage spends so much time looking at towns, chateaux, dramatic scenery and other sites of interest; sometimes to the obvious irritation of the commentators.

Not as far as I’m concerned.  The local history, scenery and, of course, the occasional appearance of a railway are all part of the spectacle.

[jonny777]

Wow!

 

I would never have predicted the result of the Tour. 

 

I thought Fignon v LeMond was amazing enough, but this is rather special. 

 

 

[EddieB]

Breathtaking...

 

Better not say too much until the highlights show!

 

 

[EddieB]

Well, I think that will go down as one of the best Tours.  A complete changing of the guard, with all the jerseys going to new winners - but I didn’t expect that three would be to the same rider!

 

As I predicted, another team had better tactics and strength in depth than Ineos, who put too much faith in Bernal and, while strong, had no one in a major support role ready to take over in GC.  Tactically Jumbo Visma were the class of the field, only to find in the final analysis (time trial) that their main man couldn’t match his young compatriot and rival.

 

Good to see the green jersey won on the road - Sagan well beaten, even had he not been penalised.  Sweet to see Sam Bennett underscore his right to green by winning the final stage yesterday.  A shout out too for his team-mate Mørkøv, who not only excelled as a lead-out man, but usually managed to keep ahead of Sagan, thereby extending the gap at the top.

 

Big credit to Sunweb, a young team willing to upset the accepted formulae and throw in some stage winning tactics...

 

...which may be the best thing to happen to the race for a long time.  This was the year that breakaway riders broke with accepted wisdom, for young riders to redefine what was possible.  Pogacar taking the race by the horns after losing time by an error in the cross-winds.

[iak]

I think this Tour confirmed the view that Ineos are in transition as a Team. They seemed "disconnected? "

Mind, this season is so all over the place its a wonder any of the teams are functioning on the road.

The winner is a very talented guy whose abilty shone through. What will Pogăcar be like as he develops?

 

[Classsix T]

The reason Sky/Ineos worked so well previously is because they worked laser focused as a team, they only shone this time once Bernal (and therefore GC) had released the remaining members from their responsibilities. 

 

Only JumboV seemed to have had an actual gameplan, the individual TT as opposed to a team TT was arguably their downfall. 

 

If Sunweb had demanded the towing of one man around France, we the audience would have been denied one of the best Tours ever imo.

 

C6T. 

[john new]

On 19/09/2020 at 13:55, Pacific231G said:

Fantastic views of the Viaduct de Cize yesterday. though we only saw a TER "suppositoire" rather than a TGV Duplex crossing it.

2011 image by David Gubler CC BY-SA3.0

 

I couldn't understand why the level crossing listed as 0.5km out on the time sheet wasn't appearing till I realised it was really only about 200-250m on the final straight to the finish and had been temporarily filled in with the barriers removed. The line in that direction from Champagnole is closed for refurbishment for another week or so so no danger of trains getting in the way of Le Tour. I assume the ASO liaise with SNCF etc about train times when planning  the route and you do sometimes see notes in the local TER timetables that trains have been retimed or cancelled because of the Tour. Champagnole was of course the home of Jouef before Hornby took it over so a goodly proportion of my H0 rolling stock was built there. 

 

Those interested in aviation will have noticed the Robin doing a high speed taxi along the Champagnole-Crotenay Aerodrome runway yesterday but I noticed that Thursday's stage started on the runway of the Meribel Altiport- an aerodrome with a very short runway (~400m for Meribel) on a steep slope (~10% for Meribel) that you take off from downhill and land on uphill and once you're commited to either you have to continue; there are no go arounds. Doesn't look too problematic for this light aircraft except that on landing you need to apply power to get to the top but it can also take private jets. .

https://youtu.be/J7Vlq-P4V0w

The best know of these is Courcheval which is fairly close and with an even steeper 530M runway used to have scheduled services.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISbZGQGoxzk

(the beep beep is the stall warner)

 

Is all this off topic for a  topic about Le Tour 2020?  Maybe not when you consider that showing off France is why both national and local governments have long supported it and why the TV coverage spends so much time looking at towns, chateaux, dramatic scenery and other sites of interest; sometimes to the obvious irritation of the commentators.

 

 

 

I enjoy the racing too but watch all the coverage live, now that  I am retired I can, because I do like watching the scenery and castles etc.