Gill Head: Kirkby Luneside's neighbour

[Physicsman]

45 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Wonderful work as ever Jeff but the above nugget along with the weight of part of a layout* I've acquired makes me wonder about the total weight of large layouts, especially those up in lofts that aren't designed for such use.

 

* Its weight is somewhere between "Oooff" and  "My oh my" but I reckon it works out about 5kg per square foot.

 

This is a good point and one which was touched upon, very tongue-in-cheek in the KL2 thread.

 

People may have noticed (!!!) my liking for what might be called, in model railway terms, "over engineering". We can't stop personal sagging with age (!), but we can hopefully minimise problems on our layouts. So my wooden support structures have tended to be on the heavy side....

 

Which comes back to your point, Andy. The L girder tables on the last layout HAD to be fairly strong to support the Fell, which came in at around 200kg+ A lot of plaster on that. The wags predicted, amusingly, that there'd be a plaster of Paris shortage in the North of England and that the South coast would be safe from rising sea levels because of the tilt induced by "that nutter in the Durham area"! Good stuff!

 

Seriously, though, my excesses have always been built at ground level in converted garages on solid concrete (plus girder insulation) floors. A Fell equivalent in a properly converted loft would probably be ok as equivalent, say, to having a 3 piece suite with occupants up there. Not a good idea for improperly-joisted railway areas.

 

The main problem comes down to any localised pressure put onto the ceiling. The Fell, though very heavy, was spread out over an area of about 6 square metres, so the pressure wasn't too bad. Accumulated weight due to plaster, wood and the occupants themselves on a skimpy joisting system could be disastrous.

 

For comparison with your situation, taking a square metre as roughly 10 square feet, we get the pressure under the Fell at about 4kg per sq. foot. By comparison, the pressure under a 12 stone (about 70kg) man, standing normally on 2 feet is about 100kg per sq. foot. So you should be ok, but don't quote me to the insurance company!

 

Which begs the question. How often DO we hear of issues in lofts caused by over-loading due to model railways? It must happen, but perhaps when it does, the modellers are too embarrassed to publicise it.

 

I've already drawn-up the plans for my new "plank" layout. These are also over-engineered, but at least the structure will be sat on the normal floor!

 

Jeff.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Physicsman

[Andrew P]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

Wonderful work as ever Jeff but the above nugget along with the weight of part of a layout* I've acquired makes me wonder about the total weight of large layouts, especially those up in lofts that aren't designed for such use.

 

* Its weight is somewhere between "Oooff" and  "My oh my" but I reckon it works out about 5kg per square foot.

In my old Club we had that issue with the O Gaugers down stairs, and the OO upstairs. The OO Section built a Layout 41ft x 12 out of  CLS Timber. Then after a while the floor was feeling the strain, and so props were put in down stairs to take some of the weight.

Glad I'm not there now as I would be banned from going up stairs and adding to much weight.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Andrew P

[Physicsman]

51 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

In my old Club we had that issue with the O Gaugers down stairs, and the OO upstairs. The OO Section built a Layout 41ft x 12 out of  CLS Timber. Then after a while the floor was feeling the strain, and so props were put in down stairs to take some of the weight.

Glad I'm not there now as I would be banned from going up stairs and adding to much weight.

 

I almost clicked on the "Agree" button but thought you might be offended! 

[Physicsman]

At risk of boring the pants off you with pics of the signal box, here's the 'box and shed in the context of a sunny day at Gill Head.

 

The weather isn't often this clement, so until the sun melts the snow on the opposite embankment there'll be no more views like this....

 

It's ok, it'll only be a week or so, subject to the local waller getting his ar5e in gear amid the browning ground and growing grass....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andrew P]

Please forgive my thickness when it comes to matters S & C Jeff, but how do Lorries load / unload into the Goods Shed for transfer to and from Wagons?

[Physicsman]

4 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Please forgive my thickness when it comes to matters S & C Jeff, but how do Lorries load / unload into the Goods Shed for transfer to and from Wagons?

 

No forgiveness required, Andy. You've spotted what I regard as the main weakness in the goods area I've created.

 

I had about 4 inches more width on the board used in KL2, so there was plenty of space to the unloading area at the side of the shed, between the shed and the sidings. However, I've had to compromise here - in order to keep the rear siding with an embankment and walling behind it. So the unloading area is down to about a scale 10 feet, far from ideal. A compromise, I'm afraid. Pic below.

 

 

The shed is just plonked in position. The cobbles and edges need some further work - to fill gaps, grime ballast etc.

 

[Andrew P]

2 minutes ago, Physicsman said:

 

No forgiveness required, Andy. You've spotted what I regard as the main weakness in the goods area I've created.

 

I had about 4 inches more width on the board used in KL2, so there was plenty of space to the unloading area at the side of the shed, between the shed and the sidings. However, I've had to compromise here - in order to keep the rear siding with an embankment and walling behind it. So the unloading area is down to about a scale 10 feet, far from ideal. A compromise, I'm afraid. Pic below.

 

 

The shed is just plonked in position. The cobbles and edges need some further work - to fill gaps, grime ballast etc.

 

I see now, looking from the other way in your previous pics I didn't see the kink in the Track. A compromise yes, but one that works.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

16 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

I see now, looking from the other way in your previous pics I didn't see the kink in the Track. A compromise yes, but one that works.

i always liked their song "Waterloo Sunset"...

[Peter Kazmierczak]

"Millions of people swarming like flies 'round Waterloo underground" is my favourite line. I took some pictures once at the entrance to the tube there. Always a busy spot.

Anyway, back to more northern climes. The railway might've put some old sleepers down to widen the area alongside the siding, to make more room for lorries.

[MarshLane]

Hi Jeff,

Just catching up, wonderful as ever! Love the work you have done on the signal box and the stone walling, really is getting that S&C feel now!

Rich

[Physicsman]

1 hour ago, Andrew P said:

I see now, looking from the other way in your previous pics I didn't see the kink in the Track. A compromise yes, but one that works.

 

Cheers, Andy. I'd have preferred to have another couple of cm to work with (wouldn't we all? ), but I had to give myself enough space to create some kind of rear bank so I could build a continuous wall.

 

As you know yourself, there is never QUITE enough available space!

 

1 hour ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

"Millions of people swarming like flies 'round Waterloo underground" is my favourite line. I took some pictures once at the entrance to the tube there. Always a busy spot.

Anyway, back to more northern climes. The railway might've put some old sleepers down to widen the area alongside the siding, to make more room for lorries.

 

That's an interesting idea, Peter, and a few weathered sleepers fitted along the edge of the cobbles might be an interesting feature.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

20 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

Hi Jeff,

Just catching up, wonderful as ever! Love the work you have done on the signal box and the stone walling, really is getting that S&C feel now!

Rich

 

I wondered where you'd disappeared to.....

 

I enjoyed building the signal box. Just doing a bit more embankment work to try and get myself into the mood to finish the station building.

 

No excuses for not doing that, it's probably 80% complete from my 2018 efforts.

 

J.

[BWsTrains]

On 31/10/2020 at 09:30, Physicsman said:

The legs on this table are only 40cm high. With the trackbed at 109cm,

 

Hi Jeff,

 

I'm turning my mind to my new layout baseboard design and am trying to gauge the width of your L girder frame structure, is it about 600mm? Also did you later place joists extending out to the front (being lazy here rather than searching further) and if so how far?

 

My more modest affair will work with <=400mm spacing between L girders supporting a top out as far as 500mm but that leaves me an issue where the setting widens out at the corner.

 

I should perhaps post a question over on Layout design (edit: now done) but your info will be useful input.

 

Regards,

 

Colin 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by BWsTrains
addition

[Physicsman]

Hi Colin.

 

If you have a look at pages 5 and 6 of this thread...

 

The L girders on page 5 were made from "metric" 4 x 2 - they were 2.4m long and using 89 x 38mm timber produce an L girder of about 127 x 89mm. Substantial and WAY larger than necessary. With 3x2 cross timbers (I'd used 2x2 previously, but 3x2 was what I had here), I built the girders about 2'6" ( 750mm) apart.

 

The new "plank" I'll be building will use 3x2 for the girders, and be 600mm apart.

 

The 600 and 750mm values are from the back of the rear girder to the front (of flange) of the front girder.

 

My main baseboard varies from 750mm at one end to about 850mm at the other end, so the cross girders were cut to the width of the board at that place. They were 750mm at one end and thus flush with the flange, but 850mm at the other, thus protruding 100mm from the flange.

 

The cross girder ends provide a place to which a fascia board can be attached - not yet done on Gill Head.

 

Is that useful? Please let me know if it's gobbledegook!!

 

Jeff.

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Physicsman
Remove hyperlink with IRRELEVANT attached image

[Physicsman]

Colin, having just read the stuff I wrote, I need to clarify....

 

The cross girders that join the L girders together are all (4 of them, spaced 80cm along the girder) the same as the girder separation: eg. 750mm. Screwed from the top, permanently, to make the "L table".

 

I then fixed cross joists onto the bottom of the 12mm baseboard. Screwed into the ply from UNDERNEATH to allow access at a future time. Not easy to get at with scenics and rail on top! These joists were then attached to the girder table via screws driven UP through the girder flange into the joist. Because the screws into the  joists attached to the ply are accessible, they can easily be undone and shifted about, if a change is needed.

 

This makes sense to me, but that means nothing!!!!

[MarshLane]

2 hours ago, Physicsman said:

 

I wondered where you'd disappeared to.....

 

I enjoyed building the signal box. Just doing a bit more embankment work to try and get myself into the mood to finish the station building.

 

No excuses for not doing that, it's probably 80% complete from my 2018 efforts.

 

J.

 

Hi Jeff,

Trying to do a little bit of modelling myself (not getting very far!) and work/family life has been getting in the way just lately.  If we could gain another four or six hours in a day, I'd be fine!!

 

Always a pleasure to look in and see the progress you are making tho, it keeps spurring me on!

 

Rich

[Physicsman]

Rich, good to hear all is going well, including the mojo.

 

My motivation has been oscillating since completion of the viaduct in March. But I always seem to be able to find something - usually a bit of walling - to get me through any "lapses".

 

I really didn't fancy going back to work on the goods shed a couple of months back (it still isn't QUITE finished), but once I started it was great fun. Same with the signal box kit - after 15 minutes I was hooked!

 

And so it goes on.... So good luck with your current projects.

 

Jeff

[BWsTrains]

2 hours ago, Physicsman said:

Colin, having just read the stuff I wrote, I need to clarify....

 

Thx Jeff,

 

It all makes sense and I can understand your heavy build design given the span. I've been given various ideas to manage the issue of under board access, several from @St Enodoc including the use of fixit blocks which in some fit of foresight I picked up several years ago in the UK with that possible use in mind.

 

Colin

[Physicsman]

Can someone tell me how to delete the hyperlink in the post above - the one with the stupid photo that has nothing to do with me?

 

I really don't see why that picture - from a post somewhere around page 10 of this thread - is associated with my text from post 1. I want rid of it.

 

Any suggestions? Rich? (right click doesn't give me the option to "select" or "delete")

 

DONE IT using backspace.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Physicsman

[Rowsley17D]

I think you edit your post. Then click on the offending link, I think it turns blue, then hit Enter and it should disappear.

[Physicsman]

Thanks Jonathan.

 

Already managed to delete the damned thing.

 

Other people have come across this issue with the garden viaduct image being associated with any links put to this thread. I know it doesn't really matter, but WHY is that particular picture associated with this thread? It doesn't appear for pages and pages after page 1.

 

I'll PM Andy York about it.

 

J.

[Rowsley17D]

Sometimes I see a photo of a man with a stuffed tiger in other's links!! So it's not only you.

[Andrew P]

28 minutes ago, Physicsman said:

Thanks Jonathan.

 

Already managed to delete the damned thing.

 

Other people have come across this issue with the garden viaduct image being associated with any links put to this thread. I know it doesn't really matter, but WHY is that particular picture associated with this thread? It doesn't appear for pages and pages after page 1.

 

I'll PM Andy York about it.

 

J.

In future try adding a recent photo into Post #1, it may over ride other pics Jeff.

[Physicsman]

46 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

In future try adding a recent photo into Post #1, it may over ride other pics Jeff.

 

Andy, the thing that is bizarre is that the picture that appears in the hyperlink appears on page 33 of the thread.

It has nothing to do with Gill Head at all - I didn't even post it. Post 1 already has relevant pics and the hyperlink was for page 5. So why THAT image?

 

Not home at the mo, so will contact AndyY when I get there. At least it's not the stuffed tiger that Jonathan referred to!!

[peach james]

The only Tiger I can think I'd want to see on KL2 is perhaps an Esso tank wagon !  (put a tiger in your tank, put a tiger in your tank...).  I mean, I don't even want to see the mankini reappear

(and heaven help us if the other kind of 1940's Tiger appeared on the fell...)

James