Difference between Class 26 and 27

[narrowman]

Can someone tell me what the visual differences between a Class 26 and a Class 27 are?

Cheers, Tony

[Jamie]

Headcode boxes vs discs (where present or removed)

underframe gubbins - tanks etc (which vary further within each class)

cabfront windows

 

are the most obvious ones.

RMWeb's Brian Daniels has an excellent picture site for reference: http://briandaniels.fotopic.net/

[Bruce Depot]

Well a cl27 had route indicator box's (above the cab) while the class 26 had

route indicator disc's on the cab front.

Otherwise no windows on the cab doors of a cl26...

[Bernard Lamb]

Can someone tell me what the visual differences between a Class 26 and a Class 27 are?

Cheers, Tony

The most obvious is that the former had discs and the latter a headcode box. Then there are variations within each class to complicate matters. If you were about to be run over by one the front view would be a quick identification.

Bernard

[Guest jim s-w]

Hiya

 

Google search

 

BR class 26

 

BR class 27

 

I assume you tried this anyway?

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Guest stuartp]

Both classes had cab door windows as built, the 26s were plated over later. One has the 4 bodyside windows 3" higher than the other but I can never remember which. Pilot scheme 26s had oval buffers, leaf rather than coil secondary suspension and more grills along the cantrail.

 

Non-diagnostic differences between locos include tablet catcher recesses sliding and droplight windows - these went together as built (sliding windows on the recess-fitted locos, think about it) but the recesses were later plated over and both classes had batches of each.

[Pennine MC]

 

... cabfront windows ...

 

 

I'll expand on this, it's one of my favourites From new, 27s had the windscreens and bodyside windows held in with thicker rubber grommets, giving the corners thereof a noticeably more rounded appearance in common with the 33s. After refurbishment in the mid 80s, 26s also acquired the thicker type (on the windscreens only AFAIK) and lost their discs in the process)

[Guest Phil]

As others have said class 27 had roof mounted headcode boxes whereas class 26 had hinged discs. This was probably the easiest way of identifying the difference. Pennine's mention of the window rubbers is also very relevant, but mentions earlier in the thread of doors and windows are confusing.

 

All 26s and 27s were built with windows in the cab doors but these were plated over / removed over the lifetime of the locos. It's also worth mentioning that the locos built for the ScR were built new with sliding cabside windows, whereas the "English" locos had conventional droplights like class 33. After the locos all migrated north a gradual conversion to sliding lights ensued at overhauls. This is logical when you consider that the ScR locos had token catchers under the cabside window denying opportunity to fit the droplight mechanism into the bodyside.

[Bob Reid]

As others have said class 27 had roof mounted headcode boxes whereas class 26 had hinged discs. This was probably the easiest way of identifying the difference. Pennine's mention of the window rubbers is also very relevant, but mentions earlier in the thread of doors and windows are confusing.

 

All 26s and 27s were built with windows in the cab doors but these were plated over / removed over the lifetime of the locos. .......

 

I think you're a little confused Phil - only the 26s had the cab door windows plated over in later life as Bruce Depot pointed out, not the 27s (though I'm sure that;s what you meant to say)! - there was one? exception for a 27 for a short period, which I'm sure Pennine will remember the number of shortly.....

[Pennine MC]

- there was one? exception for a 27 for a short period, which I'm sure Pennine will remember the number of shortly.....

 

 

27007 for definite, 27008 likely, and ISTR a third one that I dropped across on a Fotopic site; all early/mid 80s. '07 also had at least one of the centre windscreens plated, which did not make it look bonny...

 

Less than 20 min - OK?

[Bob Reid]

27007 for definite, 27008 likely, and ISTR a third one that I dropped across on a Fotopic site; all early/mid 80s. '07 also had at least one of the centre windscreens plated, which did not make it look bonny...

 

Less than 20 min - OK?

 

I have to say that's quite impressive Ian, I could only remember the one with the one door plated over on one side (Phil)?

 

Wasn't 27007s centre screen just the fitted with a temporary plywood panel (albeit properly painted and all that) an Inverness botch up that lasted rather longer than it should have......! http://www.railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoom.php?img=0609020019000

[SRman]

The other (non-visual) difference was the 27s had 130 more bhp than the 26s and a slightly different engine/exhaust note - relevant if you go for sound.

[StaffsOatcake]

1250hp instead of 1160hp (which is 90hp more not 130). Slight differences in bogies and the electrical equipment was supplied by GEC for the 27 compared to Cromptom Parkinson for the 26.

 

The roof panels were also different depending on which sub class you are comparing.

 

All the other details have already been mentioned

['CHARD]

The one engulfed in flames is generally the Class 27

[Talltim]

Why were the cab windows plated?

[Pennine MC]

Why were the cab windows plated?

 

Draught prevention would almost certainly be the main reason, especially given that Inverness initiated the practice. I'm not sure if a previous discussion hasnt drawn a link with the abandonment of the tablet catchers, which was around the same time

[SRman]

Of course, StaffsOatcake is right: 90 not 130 bhp difference. My mistake - due to faulty memory / senior moment!

[Irishswissernie]

27007 for definite, 27008 likely, and ISTR a third one that I dropped across on a Fotopic site

 

 

 

27021 at Kingussie had at least 1 plated door see:

 

http://rniescottishailwayrchive.fotopic.net/p26813617.html

 

 

Ernie

[Pennine MC]

 

 

27021 at Kingussie had at least 1 plated door see:

 

http://rniescottisha.../p26813617.html

 

 

 

Cheers Ernie. It also occurs to me that the plated doors might have been a transient phenomenon to some extent anyway, and migrated through the fleet as other doors were known to do; Bob's link to 27007 shows it at only one end (plus incidentally some non-standard painting of the band right under the cantrail). In fact they might even be 26 doors, assuming the fitments were the same

 

 

[jbg06003]

Both 27007 and 27008 had one of the centre windows crudely plated/boarded over. First 27007

 

 

and 27008

 

 

The bloke on the left is displaying a rather fine 'headcode' himself - definately more 27 than 26

 

But back to the original question. The one on the left is a 27 26

 

 

Bruce

[Bob Reid]

Why were the cab windows plated?

 

The cab front (centre) windows were only plated over as a short term repair supposedly until the depot that carried it out received a replacement. It kind of went like this; Loco arrived out of service at (for example) Inverness requiring a replacement window - the depot supervisor would arrange for the stores to place a UVS (urgent vehicle standing) order for a replacement either from the home depot or Glasgow Works - this was really intended for immediate dispatch for loco's unable to move as a result of a spares shortage however Class 27 availability for the diagrammed work during the early 80s was dire and more often or not either a loco with heavy repair would be robbed for one, or they would patch the thing up enough to get it back out in service and back to the home depot. End result was loco would arrive at home depot (say Eastfield) with a patched up window and the replacement material would arrive at Inverness - somewhere along the line no one would particularly bother about the patched up repair - some of them were quite well done but of course incorrect - until perhaps (and only perhaps), it arrived back at Inverness for them to fit the replacement - or it ended up on a scheduled repair at works. In the last years of their lives this accounted for a lot of the seemingly odd fittings.

 

At the end of their lives during late spring early summer 1987, an edict was issued that prevented any expenditure on the remaining loco's on anything other than daily servicing (fuel/oil/water) pending their withdrawal - hence the reason many were withdrawn for seemingly minor faults. Basically they were run into the ground, till they couldn't run or were beyond economic repair - As I'm sure many train crew on the ScR at the time would agree, like the 24s & 25s before them, if you got one with no traction motors isolated it was a novelty. If the cab didn't leak cold air like a sieve it was luxury. and If the boiler worked the drivers assistant was on mind enhancing products. If the drivers desk wasn't held together with tank tape, it was sealed up with silicone sealer. But hey we got our money's worth

[D605Eagle]

Of course, StaffsOatcake is right: 90 not 130 bhp difference. My mistake - due to faulty memory / senior moment!

But knowing GEC electrics, about 100bhp less at the rails LOL

[Bob Reid]

But knowing GEC electrics, about 100bhp less at the rails LOL

 

One thing they were never short of was 'orsepower - especially with one at each end though a couple of 33s would have been even better!

[hmrspaul]

I have added a small collection of these at

"BRCW Type 2 class 26 & 27 diesel locomotive" (C#1854532) - 17 photographs

http://paulbartlettsotherrailwayphotos.fotopic.net/c1854532.html

 

They were very handsome in the coal sector livery.

 

Paul

York

[Stu from EGDL]

Hi Guys;;

 

A pic taken at Perth from the 'Class 27 Farewell' tour, which actually started at Glasgow Central and went via Perth, Inverness, Aberdeen & Dundee....

 

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=697

 

I might be able to find some more over the next few days!!!

 

Later;

STU from EGDL