MR Chuffer Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I have a fully built model of the above but in 40 years of storage, the part indicated in the photo has been lost. Can someone give me a name for it and, even better, where I could source a 4mm replacement? Thanks in anticipation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted October 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2020 A safety valve cover. As a Wills kit, your best source for a replacement is SouthEastFinecast. Dave Ellis has a fine track record in helping with odd bits for his kits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR Chuffer Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 Yes, a Wills Kit as I recall with round top firebox modification, thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animotion Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I can offer you a replacement part if you need it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR Chuffer Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, animotion said: I can offer you a replacement part if you need it. Ok, do you want to PM me details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animotion Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) I produce 3D printed locos and parts for CamKits and could do a one off for you. I would have to produce the artwork but judging by the design wouldn’t take long. Could print it with my next batch of prints. Edited October 3, 2020 by animotion 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Cam kits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted October 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 3, 2020 For CamKits see http://www.taffvale.wales/images/camkitstvm_fly.pdf Distributed by Taff Vale Models (no connection except a satisfied customer) Jonathan 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR Chuffer Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, Gordon A said: Cam kits? - thanks, and @corneliuslundie, will explore further. Edited October 4, 2020 by MR Chuffer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 You could replace the cover with open type Ramsbottom safety valves e.g. Alan Gibson 4M638. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 5, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2020 Good drawings or overhead views of this style of safety valve cover are a bit hard to come by. The oval "tin" hides from view the pair of Ramsbottom safety valves and spring and the bit sticking up behind is an additional lock-up safety valve, set to lift at 5 psi higher than the Ramsbottom valves. This arrangement was introduced with the Belpaire 4-4-0s (with a cover closer in outline to the inverted trumpet cover used for the lock-up valve on earlier boilers). The plainer style came in with later batches of the Belpaires and the first Compounds; it was also used on the round-topped H boiler (as fitted to the Flatirons) and on the boilers used to re-boiler various S&DJR engines in the early years of the 20th century. On these round-topped boilers, the cover sits on a flat plinth, pear-shaped in plan. (But with straight sides - perhaps more like a cam than a pear?) Later Belpaire boilers of all sizes - such as used to rebuild standard goods engines to 3F and 2F Belpaire configuration and on the 483 Class 4-4-0s, along with the Deeley Compounds and 999s - dispensed with the oval cover, leaving the Ramsbottom valves in full view. There was some experimentation with Ross Pop valves after the Great War but these didn't become standard until LMS days. Ref. S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 1 (Irwell Press, 2000) pp. 64-66. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted October 5, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2020 On 04/10/2020 at 10:28, Poor Old Bruce said: You could replace the cover with open type Ramsbottom safety valves e.g. Alan Gibson 4M638. You mean that, at some date, the covers were removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 5, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Joseph_Pestell said: You mean that, at some date, the covers were removed? As long as the Flatirons had their original round-topped H boilers, they had the cover, as seen here. Only when rebuilt with superheated Belpaire G7S boilers did they have exposed Ramsbottom (later, Ross pop) safety valves. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted October 5, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: As long as the Flatirons had their original round-topped H boilers, they had the cover, as seen here. Only when rebuilt with superheated Belpaire G7S boilers did they have exposed Ramsbottom (later, Ross pop) safety valves. Reason that I asked is that I have a Wills Flatiron somewhere. It was my first ever locomotive kit, built when I was about 14. I can't remember which type of firebox it has but, when I find it, I would like to make it a "Rule One" locomotive as they were withdrawn earlier than the period that I now model (when mojo/work/money permits). But that won't be possible if it has the wrong boiler/firebox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 5, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Joseph_Pestell said: Reason that I asked is that I have a Wills Flatiron somewhere. It was my first ever locomotive kit, built when I was about 14. I can't remember which type of firebox it has but, when I find it, I would like to make it a "Rule One" locomotive as they were withdrawn earlier than the period that I now model (when mojo/work/money permits). But that won't be possible if it has the wrong boiler/firebox. Well, it would be Rule 1 in either case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Compound2632 said: As long as the Flatirons had their original round-topped H boilers, they had the cover, as seen here. Only when rebuilt with superheated Belpaire G7S boilers did they have exposed Ramsbottom (later, Ross pop) safety valves. Alan Gibson 4M747 MR ‘H . type’ boiler safety valve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR Chuffer Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said: I have a Wills Flatiron somewhere I recall my original kit from 40 years ago was Wills, it had a Belpaire boiler and I paid someone at the time to retro-adjust to the original round top, including sourcing the safety valve. @PenrithBeacon, found it thanks, and will order. @Compound2632, all I wanted was the part name and source and I end up with a whole lot of extra knowledge as I often do from your posts, fascinating. Cheers all. Edited October 5, 2020 by MR Chuffer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR Chuffer Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 And blow me, just scanning eBay tonight and there's the exact part at half the listed price, must go out and get a lottery ticket.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatiron2000 Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 On 05/10/2020 at 11:06, Compound2632 said: Good drawings or overhead views of this style of safety valve cover are a bit hard to come by. The oval "tin" hides from view the pair of Ramsbottom safety valves and spring and the bit sticking up behind is an additional lock-up safety valve, set to lift at 5 psi higher than the Ramsbottom valves. This arrangement was introduced with the Belpaire 4-4-0s (with a cover closer in outline to the inverted trumpet cover used for the lock-up valve on earlier boilers). The plainer style came in with later batches of the Belpaires and the first Compounds; it was also used on the round-topped H boiler (as fitted to the Flatirons) and on the boilers used to re-boiler various S&DJR engines in the early years of the 20th century. On these round-topped boilers, the cover sits on a flat plinth, pear-shaped in plan. (But with straight sides - perhaps more like a cam than a pear?) Later Belpaire boilers of all sizes - such as used to rebuild standard goods engines to 3F and 2F Belpaire configuration and on the 483 Class 4-4-0s, along with the Deeley Compounds and 999s - dispensed with the oval cover, leaving the Ramsbottom valves in full view. There was some experimentation with Ross Pop valves after the Great War but these didn't become standard until LMS days. Ref. S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 1 (Irwell Press, 2000) pp. 64-66. I know this thread is pretty old but I thought I'd add that there is an overhead view of this style of safety valve cover in Derby Works Drawing 06-6965 titled 'Clothing Arrangement'. The drawing is specific to the 0-6-4T Flatirons and a copy can be viewed at the National Railway Museum Archives at York, though the catalogue does not specify the locomotive class. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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