Hacksworth_Sidings Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Oh? What’s this? Yep! I’ve bought another! Front end is totally f&ck3d and it has the other usual acetate Princess quirks (such as the running board getting slimmer towards the middle), tender is in good nick though… Any ideas besides going to another Prairie bash? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
33C Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 56 minutes ago, Hacksworth_Sidings said: Oh? What’s this? Yep! I’ve bought another! Front end is totally f&ck3d and it has the other usual acetate Princess quirks (such as the running board getting slimmer towards the middle), tender is in good nick though… Any ideas besides going to another Prairie bash? Do a "Hush-Hush"? Nice and simple with my Template. Or, a cab-forward/camel-back type! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
33C Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 On 01/05/2024 at 18:25, Hacksworth_Sidings said: lacked a tender Point that out and offer a tenner! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksworth_Sidings Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, 33C said: Point that out and offer a tenner! I did, lowest I could get was £25. Friend still had his up for grabs, paying him a fiver and servicing some of his locos in exchange for it… Hopefully. :) Edited May 4 by Hacksworth_Sidings 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksworth_Sidings Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 hours ago, 33C said: Do a "Hush-Hush"? Nice and simple with my Template. Or, a cab-forward/camel-back type! That warped frame is my main concern, though that’s definitely a conversion I’d like to try out… 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksworth_Sidings Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 Hmmm… More ideas… I’ve heard horror stories about the old Bachmann 4-8-4s having split axle issues, and given how I’m not keen on the split chassis design, I’m tempted by the prospect of using a Princess chassis to get one of those running… Would make for an interesting sight on my layout… 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 6 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 6 (edited) 6 hours ago, Hacksworth_Sidings said: I’ve heard horror stories about the old Bachmann 4-8-4s having split axle issues, and given how I’m not keen on the split chassis design, I I understand and sympathise, having lost several locos to Mainlines' split-axle obsession, but don't write of split current pick-up altogether! It is in many ways a very good idea, a product of the best of scratchbuilding practice in the 70s and 80s, when, with a combination of 3-point compensation, open frame chassis with split pick-up and Portescap motor/geaboxes some very highly detailed and superbly running locos were built. The move in RTR exemplified by the new RTR kids on the block, Airfix and Mainline, and to some extent Lima, was to produce models with good underframe detail and visible daylight beneath boilers, dispensing with the earlier boiler skirts. The new locos looked good, but failed to deliver good running because of the combination of feeble transversely mounted pancake motors that had to run at very high rpm to produce enough power (and even then were so underpowered that traction tyres had to be used) and then be geared down with plastic spur gears which introduced too much mechanical friction into the drives for good slow running. Mainline, rather bravely I thought, went for split chassis pickup in combination with this, but in order to keep the pricing at a competitive level did not specify components, especially the soft plastic central stub axles and the metal wheel stub axles, for reliabliity; wheelsets went out of quarter easily and were insanely difficult to get back in quarter reliably. Then, to top it off, the chassis half-blocks were prone to mazak rot. Poor design with poor materials. The result was that the models developed a poisonous reputation, reflected in the low prices they command on the Bay of e. Anyone aware of their performance knows that the model may run when they get it, but it will almost certainly expire terminally in a fairly short time. The cloud hanging over them has effectively prevented further development of the split chassis idea by British RTR companies; Sales Dept. advise very strongly against it, and the current use of powerful (and cheap as chips) Chinese can motors driving through worm and idler gear reduction, along with well-designed pickup wipers that impose minimal drag on the wheels, provides good power and controllable slow running. I have a 2h eBay early Bachmann 43xx chassis underneath a later Hornby large prairie body (derived from the old Airfix) which performs very well indeed, holding it's own against the current Hornby in this respect. This is a sort of combination hybrid mechanism from the early days of Bachmanns' inheritance of the 43xx from Mainline, and has Mainline-type chassis blocks and split current collection but a modern can motor and worm/idler drive. It performs duties that are light for a large prairie on my BLT, and has been running for over 2 years in frequent use, and I drive it gently so as not to provoke quartering issues; so far so good. There is no reason that a properly designed and built split chassis built to current standards of high-spec materials could not work well and reliably, and were I building a kit or scratch project I would certainly consider it, as pickups and me have a turbulent and unhappy history when it comes to adjusting them to provide minimum drag for good slow running. Design requirements would be; brass or nickel-silver open frames with electrically dead spacers enabling 3-point compensation suspension, rigid and resilient plastic for the stub axles and a firm and reliable attachment to the outer, live, quarter-axles for reliable quartering, modern can motor with worm/idler drive, easy access to axles for removal and cleaning to ensure good pickup performance through bearings, not direct to the frame like the Mainline chassis block/live axle interface. My entire modelling history of some 60 years can be regarded as a constant struggle to achieve good pickup performance and reliable, controllable, slow running, with success partial but incomplete to my required standards. This was achieved by kit and scratchbuilders in the 70s with Portescaps, split pickup, and 3-point compensation, and while current RTR running quality is a massive improvement over the 60s and an even more massive one over the retrograde attempts of the 70s and 80s, it needs 3-point compensation to achieve completely reliable, controllable, slow running, for which perfect pickup is necessary. If this were to be done (and I'm sure that improvements in plastic materials will enable it to be done cost-effectively eventually), it might then be worth dispensing with the wiper pickups (for split collection as a means of improving pickup reliability, and their braking effect. I live in hope... Edited May 6 by The Johnster 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
33C Posted May 6 Author Share Posted May 6 Ron, of Classic Model Trains (Youtube), addressed this issue quite successfully in the episodes regarding the Bachmann 4.8.4. Daylight locomotives which are notorious in the way the J72 is. Check it out. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksworth_Sidings Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 I’ve heard of people using brass tubing to sort out split axles, I watched Ron’s video when it first came out and, if I recall correctly, he used that method to effectively just squeeze the worn axles back together at the ends, keeping the insulating property whilst strengthening the overall build quality. Another issue for me would be my track though, unsure how well those finer wheels and long wheelbases would take the tight, chunky Series 3 track I use, whereas a Princess chassis? I know what I’m dealing with, maybe that’s something I can put the recently acquired Princess towards… I’ve wanted an excuse to try and get more American stuff too, so modifying an old Bachmann steamer to take a more reliable chassis could be a fun project, might have a look at my local train show next month… Ooooh, my local car boot sale is coming back too, after the pandemic shut it down a few years ago… I’ll be checking that out when it opens up. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
33C Posted May 16 Author Share Posted May 16 Not my usual fare but, i acquired a lot of spares, and in amongst them was this bright green, modified Princess body, tender and old, basic chassis. So i decided to do a sympathetic renovation. Not change the colour and the remnants of lining, just enhance, in the original modellers style. It occured to me that it had a late L.N.E.R./early B.R. look of an apple green A2. Was this the original intention? After rebuilding the chassis, filing down the flanges, re-magnetising and adding basic valve gear, she runs like new. (whisper it softy, she's 70+years old!) 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksworth_Sidings Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 (edited) Conversation with a friend bought up a conversion guide (I think) shared here, converting the “Hiawatha” model from a 4-6-2 to a 4-4-2… …Anyone care to try that with a Princess? 🤪 Edited May 24 by Hacksworth_Sidings 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emery Hill Station Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hacksworth_Sidings said: Conversation with a friend bought up a conversion guide (I think) shared here, converting the “Hiawatha” model from a 4-6-2 to a 4-4-2… …Anyone care to try that with a Princess? 🤪 I'm looking at making a Raven C7 after the Raven A2. The Raven A2 is being made from a Flying Scotsman but I might buy a Princess to cut up the chassis and fit A1/B17 wheels to it for the C7 instead of trying to find another Scotsman for cheap. Edited May 24 by Emery Hill Station 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksworth_Sidings Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 9 minutes ago, Emery Hill Station said: I'm looking at making a Raven C7 after the Raven A2. The Raven A2 is being made from a Flying Scotsman but I might buy a Princess to cut up the chassis and fit A1/B17 wheels to it for the C7 instead of trying to find another Scotsman for cheap. Princess might be too short in the wheelbase, if I recall correctly the B17 and A1/3 wheels are bigger than the ones used on the Princess, thus the distance between geared axle and front/rear is too small to take bigger wheels. I might have a spare tender drive 5MT block you can have, same geometry as the B12 and maintaining the original motor mounting points (holes would just need tapping), can send spare rods too if I have any… Message if interested 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksworth_Sidings Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 (edited) Haven’t done awfully much work on the Castle as of late… Chimney’s finally on (copper cap is only loose and not on fully as to be able to remove it easily for painting), I need to build wheel arches before I go priming the model, then I need to add the piping and brake lever detail… Oh, any budget ways I could make a safety valve bonnet? I might have a spare Airfix CoT boiler I can put together and extract the bonnet from… Edited May 25 by Hacksworth_Sidings 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherman Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 8 hours ago, Hacksworth_Sidings said: Haven’t done awfully much work on the Castle as of late… Chimney’s finally on (copper cap is only loose and not on fully as to be able to remove it easily for painting), I need to build wheel arches before I go priming the model, then I need to add the piping and brake lever detail… Oh, any budget ways I could make a safety valve bonnet? I might have a spare Airfix CoT boiler I can put together and extract the bonnet from… Hi, I used the safety valve bonnets from the Triang Pannier tank on these 2 locos. They were very cheap. I think I got them from Peters Spares via Ebay. I filed them to the size I wanted. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TinTracks Posted May 25 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 25 9 hours ago, Hacksworth_Sidings said: Oh, any budget ways I could make a safety valve bonnet? Howdo. Somewhere I've got some old unpainted Hornby spare bonnets. If you're not in a rush for a week I'll bung one in with that other stuff we talked about. Send you a pmail sunday pm. Cheers, Rich 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksworth_Sidings Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 9 hours ago, cypherman said: Hi, I used the safety valve bonnets from the Triang Pannier tank on these 2 locos. They were very cheap. I think I got them from Peters Spares via Ebay. I filed them to the size I wanted. Thanks for reminding me about the spare 5700 body I’ve got knocking about, one of the old Triang/Hornby ones, I’ll hunt about for the top of that today… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksworth_Sidings Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 24/05/2024 at 22:49, Hacksworth_Sidings said: Princess might be too short in the wheelbase, if I recall correctly the B17 and A1/3 wheels are bigger than the ones used on the Princess, thus the distance between geared axle and front/rear is too small to take bigger wheels. I might have a spare tender drive 5MT block you can have, same geometry as the B12 and maintaining the original motor mounting points (holes would just need tapping), can send spare rods too if I have any… Message if interested @Emery Hill Station As part of a project I’m working on, I’ve hacked up a Scotsman chassis, I wanted to use the Scotsman wheels, but the flanges are just wide enough to interfere with each other, and since the B17 uses either similar or the same wheels, neither would work with the Princess chassis as they’re simply too large for the spacing between the axles. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 At one time they used centre wheels that had flanges but were slightly smaller; perhaps those might just squeeze in. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksworth_Sidings Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Just now, BernardTPM said: At one time they used centre wheels that had flanges but were slightly smaller; perhaps those might just squeeze in. I’ve seen those, yes, they’d possibly fit? But the Scotsman I’m using didn’t have such, not to mention they’d be on the “fine scale” side of things and likely wouldn’t like the track I’m using. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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