RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted January 9 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9 17 hours ago, Schooner said: Oh dear. Hattons Originals seemed universally successful, with the Genesis coaches being the most successful new idea in RTR that I can think of, and for good reason. Why cancel batch 3 production, and follow-up generic bogie vehicles? I have to say that I am immensely impressed by the professional way that this is being handled. I do understand the frustration but how often do we hear of companies that will accept your pre-order and deposit at 11:30 only to get an email at 12:30 to say the company has gone bust and your money is gone. With that in mind it seems to me (and this is speculation) they are continuing with projects that are close to fruition and where the financial investment is very high - metal has been cut for the moulds (and paid for), production firmly planned (quite probably paid for) and even some bespoke production items bought. By continuing, Hattons have the opportunity to recoup the investment and perhaps make some profit. However for projects that are further away, then does it make sense to keep the business open with all of the costs involved and then further invest in the models that may well be no further forward than a CAD. As said, I understand the frustration but that , the disappointment and potentially loss of money from potential purchasers could have been so much worse had there been a sudden announcement of closure with immediate effect. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schooner Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 8 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said: I have to say that I am immensely impressed by the professional way that this is being handled. This. The transition is being admirably navigated. The only 'improvement' I can see would have been to soften the initial communications slightly - perhaps opening with a statement that Hatton's can not find a 'viable long term path' or somesuch, to allow the community to get their heads around the idea, before following with 'no path found, Hatton's to close'. I have yet to understand what parts of the business are being wound down, and which may continue. Or how this impacts, or interacts, with Hatton's ownership of the American supplier MB Klein (a majority online business, trading from https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/ ). 15 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said: By continuing, Hattons have the opportunity to recoup the investment and perhaps make some profit. Yes, you've hit the nail on the head - I'm surprised at the dropping of what would seem profitable exercises (eg. batch 3 Genesis coaches) and possible dropping of others (eg. Batch 2 P Class). Under what circumstances would it be better to draw a line under all, with the option of maintaining some aspects case-by-case vs keeping all, winding down unsustainable aspects of the business case-by-case? I suppose this is what I had in mind when questioning the management approach taken. Hindsight being 20/20 an' all, but only if we look back and debrief! In the grand scheme of things I am unaffected (with a P on order, after the numerous excellent reviews of Batch 1, as a donor chassis - no great shakes); but I am fascinated by how mistaken I was to view Hattons as the model success story of expansion and diversification in the hobby/industry. Could it be the start of a new company, with flagship products of generic but plausible 4W, 6W and short bogie passenger stock...maybe with a matching range of dimunitive tank engines...?! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Following the announcement to that effect yesterday, I had an email today confirming that my pre-orders will no longer be honoured (save the exclusives, so hopefully the Genesis coaches are still bound for the WNR) and will be at some stage removed from my account. Last night was a profitable one for Rails. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 RIP Laurie Johnson .... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I am a left-wing collectivist extremist bent on giving ever more power to the State and to unaccountable bodies ... according to Liz Truss. Evidently this is because I care about the environment and want an inclusive society that embraces, inter alia, ethnic minorities and LGBTQ+ communities. Here was I thinking I was a boring old centerist trying his best to respect other people, be a decent person and wave my kids off to a happy life in a free country with the rule of law , a functioning democracy and a sense of fairness. Silly me. Actually, that just makes me some frothing, raving Marxist. Decent right-thinking people, on the other hand, don't believe in these things. Assuming that these "secret bigots conservatives" believe in the opposite of the things that "left-wing" extremists" believe in, they must want to disadvantage ethnic minorities and LGBTG+ folk, and to keep power with the unaccountable super-rich sovereign individuals and captains of industry and their corrupt cronies and client press. Obviously that would be better. Thank goodness someone has the courage to stand up and say these things. Take it away, Liz.... Unf-king-believable. 2 9 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Is there any possibility that she could somehow cause the final implosion, or fracturing into sub-parties, of the Tories, maybe by taking her particular tribe of the lost (touch with reality) through the wilderness to The Promised Land of Faragistan? If there is, I wish her every success, because a split party is a weakened party (which reads a bit like a weekend party, but isn’t). 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 She'll get on well with DJT. He wants to is going to rid America of all socialist lefties in order to 'drain the swamp'! Jim 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) Maybe some will come here, in the way that some Jewish people fled Nazism in the 1930s; might do us good if they did. I was very tired indeed today, as a result of the dog being poorly and restless all night (on prescribed meds and beginning to feel better now), and as a result made several mistakes, one of which was to look at my “feed” on Facebook at length. For those who don’t know, a “feed” is a load of stuff the bots fire at you based on which groups you subscribe to, in my case one on collecting old toy trains, one about my particular niche in cycling, and the local history club for the area I grew up in, so all apolitical, anodyne sorts of stuff. Based on this, the bots have somehow decided that I need to see things in multiple languages from protesting euro-farmer groups (actually, quite interesting), and from the redneck side in a massive culture war going on in the USA between the meat farming lobby, and, so far as I can work out, anyone who ever ate a balanced diet, vegetarians, and vegans. It’s basically wall-to-wall hatred and incitement to even more hatred, very nasty stuff indeed. Genuinely. And, this, bear in mind, is about what people choose to eat for dinner. How the @*^# anyone managed to turn lunch into a politically polarised issue I cannot imagine. The rot in that country is very, sadly, deep, deep, deep, and the trouble with rot is that it spreads. Edited February 6 by Nearholmer 4 1 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted February 6 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, Edwardian said: Take it away, Liz.... Coating extremist Tories in layers of zinc plating sounds like a good idea to me. It's not a joke at all really since we have have our own brand of newly arisen extreme conservative politicians here who are preaching barely disguised eugenics based policies against anyone who dares to be the wrong colour and poor. 2 2 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 54 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: And, this, bear in mind, is about what people choose to eat for dinner. How the @*^# anyone managed to turn lunch into a politically polarised issue I cannot imagine. When Dean Swift imagined war between Big Endians and Little Endians over which end of an egg to crack, he meant it as a metaphor for the absurdity of religious wars. War literally over what one ate for breakfast would have no doubt struck him as too absurd. 54 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: The rot in that country is very, sadly, deep, deep, deep, and the trouble with rot is that it spreads. 1 minute ago, Annie said: Coating extremist Tories in layers of zinc plating sounds like a good idea to me. That bit's funny 1 minute ago, Annie said: It's not a joke at all really since we have have our own brand of newly arisen extreme conservative politicians here who are preaching barely disguised eugenics based policies against anyone who dares to be the wrong colour and poor. This bit less so. And in Gemany, of all places, there are reports of rightiwingers meeting to discuss theremovalfrom Germany of anyone not considered German enough. I seem to have heard that before. Mind you. on the bright side, it was mainly reported becauseof the significant protests against it. So there's hope.... 4 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) I have railed in the past about laws restricting the right to peaceful protest .... Today we learn of a proposal to add to the Criminal Justice Bill currently before Parliament to empower police in England and Wales to arrest protesters who cover their face in a bid to avoid prosecution. What bothers me about this is that we know the police review footage of protest so that they can identify people for later arrest. Given that one can potentially commit an offence by merely inconveniencing people, that is a concern, but I also worry that this is a way simply to track people who go on protests, whether or not they are suspected of committing an offence. Further, people who scale national monuments could face a three-month prison sentence and a £1,000 fine. This is not vandalising monuments, you understand, merely climbing onto something is now an imprisonable offence. Bad news for Isobel... Edited February 8 by Edwardian spelling 5 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, Edwardian said: Today we learn of a proposal to add to the Criminal Justice Bill currently before Parliament to empower police in England and Wales to arrest protesters who cover their face in a bid to avoid prosecution. Given the propensity for guardians of the Lieu to wear masks to prevent their own identity, that should be interesting? Personally I thought this 'mask' wearing was a consideration towards small children and pensioners who might be watching, and may find the ugly faces too much to cope with? Will that also extend to news footage where faces are pixelated out? Perhaps the arrests will extend to all the conservative blue-rinse ladies who manage to daube so much makeup on their faces, that to see them 'in the raw', so to speak, can lead to PTSD in the poor, and complete failure of Facial Recognition AI 'softwear' to identify? A question I'd like to pose is, what can I say to any member of the Conservatives who knocks on my door, canvassing, when I live in a profoundly conservative area of the country? I'd prefer it if they ran away screaming, of course...but one cannot have everything, I suppose? 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 18 minutes ago, alastairq said: A question I'd like to pose is, what can I say to any member of the Conservatives who knocks on my door, canvassing, when I live in a profoundly conservative area of the country? I'd prefer it if they ran away screaming, of course...but one cannot have everything, I suppose? Ask them if they've been asleep for the last 14 years, if not, ask them how can they face getting up in the morning or look at themselves in the mirror, let alone have the temerity to knock on your door and beg for your vote? 4 2 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Ask them if they've been asleep for the last 14 years, if not, ask them how can they face getting up in the morning or look at themselves in the mirror, let alone have the temerity to knock on your door and beg for your vote? Some problems there........Firstly, they don't have to beg for my vote......They have had a significant majority here for decades...the constituency being full of wealthy landowners, forelock-tuggin' lower orders, pensioners who come here to die, in their little seaside bungalows....and precious few from the 'working class'.... Secondly, our sittin' MP [who is a classic /old car enthusiast who has some sort of support in view of my other interests....torn somewhat, I am/ was! :) ] has retired,replaced by a young upstart from what I presume to be a long standing , wealthy business owning [or, did own....Dewhirst, if that name means anything?] EY family? So won't give a figg for my views or votes , as I 'don't count'..... Besides, my constituency is being turned into two......I suppose the Cons are hoping that they can now get two con seats instead of one? [Which is why LA areas were divided up....to get more conservative councilors into the one LA?] 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted February 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, alastairq said: I'd prefer it if they ran away screaming, of course...but one cannot have everything, I suppose? Keep one of those masks handy by the front door. 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted February 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8 5 hours ago, Edwardian said: Today we learn of a proposal to add to the Criminal Justice Bill currently before Parliament to empower police in England and Wales to arrest protesters who cover their face in a bid to avoid prosecution. The thing is, they can legislate until they are blue in the face but they can't (yet) force the police to use these powers and where ordinary officers are required to do so by their senior officers, the result is a legal shambles, as the acquittal of St Greta has demonstrated. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Innocent questions, in an unthreatening way, to draw them into a long conversation, during which you lead them, ever-so-gently, to the deep contradictions within their own position, and within the utterances from their various front-benchers. This uses-up loads of their time, reducing the number of people they can seek to influence, and hopefully saps their resilience. It’s like drilling lots of tiny holes in the bottom of a barrel, rather than trying to smash it apart with one blow. If I were you, I’d start with something like social care, where they’re bound to say that they’re all in favour of it being done well, then lead on from that to the impact of Brexit on labour supply, the impact of cuts to local council budgets, how care staff can’t afford to live on what they get paid, how care home owners are shutting places down because they can’t make a living, moving in to how that is or isn’t consistent with cutting NI contributions, etc. Nothing confrontational, just an endless series of quizzical enquiries and “so, what you’re saying is ……”. Don't legal chaps get ninja-training in this stuff? 6 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted February 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8 19 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: This uses-up loads of their time, reducing the number of people they can seek to influence, "Sacrificing oneself for the common good." 7 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, alastairq said: Some problems there........Firstly, they don't have to beg for my vote......They have had a significant majority here for decades...the constituency being full of wealthy landowners, forelock-tuggin' lower orders, pensioners who come here to die, in their little seaside bungalows....and precious few from the 'working class'.... Well, perhaps you could just try stoning them? 29 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Innocent questions, in an unthreatening way, to draw them into a long conversation, during which you lead them, ever-so-gently, to the deep contradictions within their own position, and within the utterances from their various front-benchers. Welcome to my parlour, said the spider to the fly 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted February 8 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8 49 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Innocent questions, in an unthreatening way, to draw them into a long conversation, during which you lead them, ever-so-gently, to the deep contradictions within their own position, and within the utterances from their various front-benchers. This uses-up loads of their time, reducing the number of people they can seek to influence, and hopefully saps their resilience. It’s like drilling lots of tiny holes in the bottom of a barrel, rather than trying to smash it apart with one blow. If I were you, I’d start with something like social care, where they’re bound to say that they’re all in favour of it being done well, then lead on from that to the impact of Brexit on labour supply, the impact of cuts to local council budgets, how care staff can’t afford to live on what they get paid, how care home owners are shutting places down because they can’t make a living, moving in to how that is or isn’t consistent with cutting NI contributions, etc. Nothing confrontational, just an endless series of quizzical enquiries and “so, what you’re saying is ……”. Don't legal chaps get ninja-training in this stuff? It seems to me that while the population want even need an improved health and social care service, this is not compatible with promises to cut taxes (of whatever form). At some stage we will have to get a smidgen of honesty from our politicians. If you want x, then you will have to pay for it through increased taxes. Not a vote winner though. Especially when they are currently paying for services on the never-never and not being up front about that.. 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Either honesty, or ever bigger lies, to distract enough of the people for enough of the time from the difficult truths. If you look worldwide, The Big Lie, in whatever form suits each country, seems to be the most frequently chosen option. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, Andy Hayter said: At some stage we will have to get a smidgen of honesty from our politicians. Nae chance! Jim 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Keep one of those masks handy by the front door. With my face, I don't need a mask....... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysarefun Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) Cheer up everybody! Its not like the "Leader Of The Free World" to be chosen by the Great American public later this year is a choice between a wanna-be dictator "For one day" grifting clown of an unusual hue and an "elderly man with poor memory" or anything. Edited February 9 by monkeysarefun 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) What do we all think is the rational response that should be made to the current state of the world at an individual, personal, level? I ask, because I’m blowed if I can think of one, and would welcome suggestions. (I’m still reeling a bit from my accidental look into the mind of the US rightwing through Facebook, but even without that I think I’d still be asking the question) Edited February 9 by Nearholmer 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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