97xx Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I'm interested in your views on the above. Up until now I have used Railmatch acrylic primer - which appears completely satisfactory, although I'm not experienced enough to judge the longevity/resilience of it. I topcoat with Railmatch acrylics also - again seem to go on well with the airbrush, I get a very good finish, and I'm not likely to move away from those. I suppose my curiosity is how really suitable the Railmatch acrylic primer is for brass/whitemetal - to what extent is it a good 'primer'? In other lives I've used all sorts of etch primers for metal, but none would be particularly suitable for an airbrush without thinning with acetone (usually) and also not sure I really want them etching my airbrush...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted January 5, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2021 I use self etch primer from Halfords: https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/primer/halfords-etch-primer-500ml-370400.html Goes on well, is hard wearing and takes acrylics, enamel and cellulose paints without a problem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I use primer from our equiv. of Halfords. They have the car stuff suitable for plastic which works for me on plastic and metal. I like to use the metal primer they have (I suspect similar to that linked) for brass. However, there wasn't any last time I went in. My topcoat is almost always acrylic. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97xx Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 Thanks both - are you diluting this down and with what for use in an airbrush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 The primer? It's a rattle can. If you mean the acrylic topcoat, I mostly brush paint straight out of the bottle. Acrylic lets you have a good finish. Sometimes I will airbrush, usually for weathering. For this I decant paint into the cup and add a few drops of water. I also add a few drops of Paint Retarder to stop the paint drying in the nozzle. After paint I spray on gloss varnish, Testor' GlossCote to be precise. Transfers go onto a gloss surface better than on matte. Once the transfers are dry I spray a couple of coats of Testor's DullCote. This gives a smooth even finish. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drgj Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 I thought I had asked this before but I can't find it now! I think I must have missed the submit button. Does the Halfords etch primer mentioned by sjp23480 give a smooth finish? Also on brass could I use masking tape over it to do a two colour livery without pulling the paint off? Does it work on aluminium (Comet coach roof). Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2021 For brass and whitemetal kits I use this; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321337182970 Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, drgj said: I thought I had asked this before but I can't find it now! I think I must have missed the submit button. Does the Halfords etch primer mentioned by sjp23480 give a smooth finish? Also on brass could I use masking tape over it to do a two colour livery without pulling the paint off? Does it work on aluminium (Comet coach roof). Thanks Dave Coachman (Larry Goddard, formerly of this parish) used it for his (brass) coaches. I believe it is cellulose based, as the paint dries (the solvent evaporates) he said it was like it "shrunk onto the model". I find it has a smooth finish, but you must be careful to spray on several light coats and don't dwell anywhere. Probably worth getting a can and trying it on scrap etch or white metal and see how you get on? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said: For brass and whitemetal kits I use this; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321337182970 Mike. Cheaper at Halfords . I seem to be the only one who has used Aerosol etching primer on Brass (inclusing the one in the above link), and find it is no better than the normal Halfords Grey primer. I have found no difference in strength of resitance to wear and tear . If you read the description on the above listed etch primer it does'nt mention suitable for Brass. I have yet to find a aerosol etch primer says actually says suitable for Brass thereon. If there is one ? ,I would also like to know please !!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 I mentioned above that I have used "metal" primer. Whether it etches I don't know. These paints are intended for cars so not surprising that there is no mention of brass. I think for the purposes of model painting, using metal or plastic primer doesn't make a lot of difference. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drgj Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Thanks for the answers to my post. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97xx Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) I've just spotted that RailMatch acrylic 'universal primer' 2506 is "For use with acrylic paints on plastics and whitemetal" This is in fact what I've been using, but I'd never seen the reference to white metal. Edited January 8, 2021 by 97xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portchullin Tatty Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I have struggled with primers for a while so i asked my local car body shop; this is what they recommended and I have to say it is the best i have encountered but it does need a couple of days to fully harden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpgibbons Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Some words of primer wisdom from the experts at Precision Paints here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michl080 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 I have been testing many primers in the last couple of years. I learned that there is no universal "best" primer, it very much depends on the base material. Plastic, white metal, nickel silver are quite simple to handle, brass and resin are not. For the latter, an etch primer is mandatory. My personal test to check feasibility of a primer is the fingernail scratch test. A good primer cannot be scratched off with a fingernail whatever force you apply. In my experience, this only works with etch primer on brass and resin. Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, michl080 said: I have been testing many primers in the last couple of years. I learned that there is no universal "best" primer, it very much depends on the base material. Plastic, white metal, nickel silver are quite simple to handle, brass and resin are not. For the latter, an etch primer is mandatory. My personal test to check feasibility of a primer is the fingernail scratch test. A good primer cannot be scratched off with a fingernail whatever force you apply. In my experience, this only works with etch primer on brass and resin. Michael Which one ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Torper Posted January 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2021 I have always used "rattle can" primers. I started with the standard Halfords ones which claim to be suitable for "bare metal" and, to be fair, I've always found them perfectly satisfactory. However, having read about the supposed superiority of etch primers I bought a can of Upol Acid 8 primer which I have found entirely satisfactory on brass. I believe that it gives a slightly smoother and perhaps fractionally thinner coat than the standard Halfords primers did and it appears to adhere well. When that ran out I found that Halfords did their own etch primer, apparently suitable for "all metallic surfaces". It was considerably cheaper than the the Upol, so I bought a can. That was not a good move. I used it to prime a brass coach kit I had built, and then applied a top coat of enamel. A little later I put on some Tamiya masking tape, I think to help with some lining. In any event, when I peeled the tape off, some of the paint came with it. As both top coat and primer had come away, leaving patches of bare metal, I assumed that the new primer was at fault, and I have not used it again. Other people have had success with Halford's etch primer and I suppose I may not have used it properly or something (though I don't see how) but I'm not going to to risk it again on a kit that has taken me quite a lot of money and a great deal of time to build. So I bit the bullet, paid a bit more money, and bought another can of Upol Acid 8 which has subsequently served me well. No, it doesn't specifically mention anything about brass, but it does say that it is suitable for "bare metal surfaces" and "difficult substrates". An online search reveals that a lot of people seem to have used it successfully on brass. I continue to use the basic Halfords primer on non metal surfaces although on a couple of occasions I have used the Upol on plastic wagon kits and there was no apparent problem. DT 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michl080 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 3 hours ago, micklner said: Which one ????? I didn't actually mention the product because I live in Germany and what we can get in our shops isn't available in the UK and vice versa. However, I rechecked and noticed that my etch primer is actually a UK product. I am using a "Kent" rattle can etch primer and like it a lot. I have also used the Zero paints 2k etch primer in my airbrush, but the rattle can gives easily a light fine spray where the zero paint brand needs a precisely adjusted viscosity to provide a first class result. Kent isn't easy to get here, so I ordered a rattle can of U-Pol etch #8 for a heavy price here in Germany. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, michl080 said: I didn't actually mention the product because I live in Germany and what we can get in our shops isn't available in the UK and vice versa. However, I rechecked and noticed that my etch primer is actually a UK product. I am using a "Kent" rattle can etch primer and like it a lot. I have also used the Zero paints 2k etch primer in my airbrush, but the rattle can gives easily a light fine spray where the zero paint brand needs a precisely adjusted viscosity to provide a first class result. Kent isn't easy to get here, so I ordered a rattle can of U-Pol etch #8 for a heavy price here in Germany. Michael The only "Kent" listed in the UK , is a paint supplier not a maker. I am doing a experiment at the moment on primers on clean brass sheet , i will post the result in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michl080 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 4 hours ago, micklner said: The only "Kent" listed in the UK , is a paint supplier not a maker. Are you sure? It seems to be a European company with various offices, but it is not clear where the actual paint is coming from. The web-sites imprint refers to a UK-based company, so whereever they mix the paint, the headquarter of Kent seems to be in Dunfermline, Fife. Anyway, I was referring to this product because you have asked for it. It's not important for me where they mix their paint. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 This was the only one that come up on a Goggle search https://www.kentrefinishingsupplies.com/webshop/primer/primer-aerosol/ There is no such item as Kent etch primer it would appear ? I have no idea what you are refering too . A link would be a simple solution . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michl080 Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 My mail from earlier today did contain a link embedded in the text. (underlined portion). You could just click on the word "Kent". here it is again: https://www.kenteurope.com/en/nc/product/detail//etch-primer-p20887537be-nl-1/show/ Michael 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) I use Advanced Paints acid etch primer. It is one of the few that pass the fingernail scratch test Michael has detailed. I have come across a superb German made primer that forms an extremely robust chemical bond with metal but it has 'body' to it for filling surface imperfections and I feel that rules out its use on models. However, I have come to the conclusion that you must get the metal really throughly clean and totally degreased before painting. Having cleaned the metal surfaces you should only handle the model wearing powder free latex gloves so you don't contaminate the surface. I soak some pieces in vinegar to lightly etch the surface. This combined with acid etch primer gives a very strong bond. I have read that acid primers in spray cans have to be so weak to stop the can itself dissolving. However, this is a bit of a myth, since the acid only starts to etch as it dries. Edited January 9, 2021 by Anglian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Torper Posted January 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, micklner said: There is no such item as Kent etch primer it would appear ? I have no idea what you are refering too . A link would be a simple solution . There certainly is - https://www.kenteurope.com/en/nc/product/detail//etch-primer-p20887537be-nl-1/show/, though I haven't found it actually for sale in the UK. I did find it for sale in the Netherlands (https://shop.landreiziger.nl/etch-primer-450ml-aerosol.html), Finland, Poland, Spain, Slovakia and Germany, and another country that I didn't recognise, and then I stopped looking (I found myself at a bit of a loose end this evening). There appear to be numerous other Kent paint products as well. DT Edited January 9, 2021 by Torper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cram Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 It does say they only supply commercial customers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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