Triang Caledonian bogie coaches

[Prometheus]

Can anyone tell me (please) whether these old coaches are capable of being cut and shut into any other prototypes? Close enough would do!

 

thanks

 

Tony

[Gibbo675]

Hi Tony,

 

The sides are reasonable interpretation of Caledonian Railway 65' Grampian twelve wheelers, but they will need new ends, roofs, and obviously bogies,

 

http://www.caleycoaches.co.uk/grampian.php

 

There were 57' coaches that were of a similar style:

 

https://caley.com/semicorr.php

 

https://caley.com/corridor.php

 

https://caley.com/D95B.php

 

The roofs are more like the shape of the LMS profile than the Mk1 profile but other than that all other things are reasonably  achievable with a razor saw, a knife, and some plasticard.

 

Gibbo.

[Prometheus]

Many thanks - I shall explore....

 

tony

[Wheatley]

Agreed. There are very few compromises in the layout of the sides compared to the real Grampians, the waist panelling is a bit shallow and they're a bit slab sided (but not actually Mk1 profile) but thats about it. They can be cut and shut into most of the other Grampians with varying degrees of wastage, some are easier than others. 

 

The similar styled 57' coaches include the two preserved ones, the major difference is that the top panelling on the real ones was painted on !

 

Coopercraft Thompson roof, scratchbuilt bogies and ends, I kept the Tri-ang chassis and added trussing to it. The other one is a proper Caley Coaches one with some indifferent painting by me. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Wheatley

[andyman7]

The benefit is of course the way the Triang ones break down into sides, roof, chassis so very easily to turn into the component resource that you need

[BernardTPM]

Unlike the later Mk.1 based Thompsons, the Caley coaches were cleverly moulded with a specially shaped recessed section each end to match the rounded tumblehome with flat uppers to the curved Mk.1 ends. The Thompsons are simply Mk.1 profiled.

[Prometheus]

Thanks all for the replies. I was thinking about options for a Brake in LMS livery to use as a through coach. It looks as there may be a possibility. 

 

Tony

[Wheatley]

It's a brake composite so it's the ideal through coach. 

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

This is how I first came to know about them,

 

 

Gibbo.

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, all,

 

I did a minor upgrade to a couple of old Tri-ang Caledonian coaches a few years ago, detailed here:

 

I hope this is of some help.

 

Regards,

 

Rob,

 

[Northmoor]

On 06/02/2021 at 13:19, Prometheus said:

Can anyone tell me (please) whether these old coaches are capable of being cut and shut into any other prototypes? Close enough would do!

 

I think the PSL Practical Guide to Railway Modelling back in the 80s, showed a conversion pairing the corridor and non-corridor sides to produce a Mk1-like non-corridor composite and a "generic" Ambulance Coach.  Probably not strictly prototypical though.

[BernardTPM]

Minor detail on that: the compartment sizes on the Composite and Brake Composites don't quite match, the compartments being slightly bigger (particularly the First Class) on the Composites.

 

[Prometheus]

Thank you all for your replies, as always.

 

I am going to proceed with this project, but with Rob's earlier disclaimer firmly in place: '...a bashing exercise to produce a nostalgic model...those who only wish to see [a] fine-scalemodel, precise in every respect, need read no further...'!

 

Use of Hornby LMS dining Car 6 wheel bogies will be evidence-enough of the above caveat, that coupled with the probable use of Airfix or Dapol LMS coach roofs........

 

The underframe details remain a mystery yet to be solved.

 

Tony

[Wheatley]

The Airfix or Dapol roof will be closer than the BR MK1 roof. Some of them were built with a flatter roof, more like a LNWR cove roof, not quite as flat as a NBR one, but not all. They are a nightmare group of coaches for detail differences, multiple diagrams built in penny numbers for specific bits of specific services. Vacuum brake arrangements seem to have depended on what was lying around on the floor when they were converted, those done at Newton Heath used recovered ex-L&Y horizontal vac cylinders for example.  

 

For underframe arrangements, it's basically a 4 bar truss as my pic above but with much variation of detail fittings.  I can't remember now if I guessed the position of the dynamo or took it from Jenkinson's drawing. 

 

If anyone wants a 'proper' one, Caley Coaches do rather nice etched kits for several of them. 

 

Edit - here's a real Tri-ang one in 1953, it's the same diagram as mine (I think) but the battery boxes are in different positions:

 

https://newtonabbotrailwaystudies.co.uk/portfolio-item/20389-grampian-bck-brlmr-ex-cr-grampian-full-brake-at-bolton-great-moor-street-26-07-1953/

Edited February 10, 2021 by Wheatley

[David_Belcher]

On 10/02/2021 at 07:39, Northmoor said:

I think the PSL Practical Guide to Railway Modelling back in the 80s, showed a conversion pairing the corridor and non-corridor sides to produce a Mk1-like non-corridor composite and a "generic" Ambulance Coach.  Probably not strictly prototypical though.

Non-corridor compo and a cafeteria car (the predecessor to the RMB idea) IIRC - I built both and probably have some pics of the Blood & Custard cafeteria one somewhere; I used a Tri-ang RMB roof (with the requisite fans/vents) and a home-made seating unit for added detail. I probably should have kept it with hindsight...

 

David

[Prometheus]

My 'build' is proceeding reasonably well. I'm wondering about glazing now however. Finecast appear not to have made flushglaze for this coach, which is a great shame. Has anyone who has modified one themselves attempted flushglazing?

 

Oh,  Wheatley, thank you for the photo link - very helpful.

 

Thanks

 

Tony

[Prometheus]

For completeness, the finished product.

 

 

Well, more-or-less finished, bar some very small areas of touching up and the addition of an appropriate tail lamp.

This was an extremely speculative build at the outset. I knew that I could not guarantee a result and expecting an uncompromised product from the mating of the parts of four different coaches and a good deal of scrap was expecting a great deal. The use of the original Triang floor and Dapol/Hornby bogies eventually led to a huge and unwanted compromise: smaller wheels than intended and a substantial gap between the bogies and the underside. Without further quite drastic surgery, this compromise cannot be improved upon. It looks very pretty certainly, but I'm not sure that it was really worth the effort. I am categorically not fishing for compliments here, it's just that sometimes things don't quite work out the way you intended. The body I am quite happy with but the running qualities are not what I would have wanted and I have decided to box it up for a couple of months to concentrate on other projects before returning once again to the running gear. I can see from the photos that the dynamo drive belt needs adjusting, too.

 

The slightly panoramic effect of the phone camera has made the bogies look just a little more inboard than they are. However, when I return to the running quality, I shall also move each of the bogies outwards by 5mm.

 

Tony

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Prometheus

[Gibbo675]

30 minutes ago, Prometheus said:

For completeness, the finished product.

 

 

Well, more-or-less finished, bar some very small areas of touching up and the addition of an appropriate tail lamp.

This was an extremely speculative build at the outset. I knew that I could not guarantee a result and expecting an uncompromised product from the mating of the parts of four different coaches and a good deal of scrap was expecting a great deal. The use of the original Triang floor and Dapol/Hornby bogies eventually led to a huge and unwanted compromise: smaller wheels than intended and a substantial gap between the bogies and the underside. Without further quite drastic surgery, this compromise cannot be improved upon. It looks very pretty certainly, but I'm not sure that it was really worth the effort. I am categorically not fishing for compliments here, it's just that sometimes things don't quite work out the way you intended. The body I am quite happy with but the running qualities are not what I would have wanted and I have decided to box it up for a couple of months to concentrate on other projects before returning once again to the running gear. I can see from the photos that the dynamo drive belt needs adjusting, too.

 

The slightly panoramic effect of the phone camera has made the bogies look just a little more inboard than they are. However, when I return to the running quality, I shall also move each of the bogies outwards by 5mm.

 

Tony

 

Hi Tony,

 

I think that your coach looks well enough, and as you say, with a little more work on the bogies it will look a whole lot better again. I would say that it is the kind of project that even if it is not 100% accurate it is good enough for the novelty value of an unusual prototype.

 

Gibbo.

[Prometheus]

Thanks Gibbo - appreciated.

 

Tony

[Prometheus]

Although the bright sun has bleached out the paintwork in the photos slightly, resiting the bogies 5mm towards each end* and fitting larger wheels has improved both the look and the running of this coach. I must reinstate the roof-boards before packing it away, too.

 

Although not strictly a Taunton Brake - it's a D95A rather than the D95B - it's as close as I'll get given the donor stock and, as Gibbo said, '...it is good enough for the novelty value of an unusual prototype...'.

 

 

 

* and that was a damned sight harder than it sounds!

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

[BernardTPM]

Very worthwhile improvement.

[roythebus1]

Looks good to me. well done.

[turbos]

Nice! I also did similar work at the start of the pandemic to the Triang Hornby Caley Brake Composite, using the Dapol/Hornby Diner for the bogies, roof, ends and some underframe details. The Triang Mk1 underframe needs a fair bit of butchery to get it looking and running right, fortunately it’s a solid lump of plastic.

It was my very first attempt at reworking, detailing and painting a coach.

 

Brian.

[roythebus1]

That looks the part.

 

[Prometheus]

It certainly does. You are right about the Triang underframe as well : it is insanely robust and took efforts just short of violence to clean away the detail. I like your paint job, too.

 

Tony