Seaside & Holiday Island Narrow Gauge

[Paul H Vigor]

24 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Pentewan Dock & Concrete Co. also 2' 6" railway actually in the beach.

Each day after a high tide the little diesel (?) loco and & RB tracked digger would start digging out the sand & gravel covered tracks and carting it away in trucks.

the train would often derail whilst working the tracks with the digger lifting it back onto the rails.

 

EDIT

Some of the buildings, used by both railways at different times still exist.

Pentewan harbour entrance is totally silted up now.

 

 

Spent a lovely holiday camping at London Apprentice. Explored Pentewan Harbour and the railway route up to St Austell (cycle path). If I recall, a siding serving a mica works crossed the St Austell River via a ford? 

[Ben B]

 

The mentions of Cleethorpes led me to dig out a few pics from a visit in August 2019.

 

 

I'd heard a lot about this line, and its fleet of steam locomotives and large collection of motive power, and had always fancied a trip across.

 

 

I'll confess to being a little bit disappointed on our visit though.  I was researching the old Dudley Zoo Railway, and I'd read that they had a number of artefacts at the museum here at Cleethorpes, and I really wanted to get a shot or two of the streamlined railcar/diesel which was listed as on display in the museum.  I'd been trying to get in touch for a few weeks and had no reply, so we left it until the last free day we had of the summer hols and headed over on the off-chance.  There wasn't anything to say the museum was shut before we got there, but when we arrived the railway was being operated with only a few people, and the museum was firmly locked up and out of bounds.  One of the loco drivers told me he doubted I'd be able to get access, even if I rang and tried to come back again another day.

 

 

Trains weren't operating over the full length due to some sort of problem with this level crossing, resulting in pilot-loco operation for run-rounds.  Interesting from a modelling point of view, a little disappointing in terms of having a ride on the line.  I did quite like the atmosphere of the place though, nicely old-fashioned seaside sort of a place, with a bathing lido, sandy beach, landscaped garden and boating lake, and all very well-kept when we were there, nothing too run-down.

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, Paul H Vigor said:

Spent a lovely holiday camping at London Apprentice. Explored Pentewan Harbour and the railway route up to St Austell (cycle path). If I recall, a siding serving a mica works crossed the St Austell River via a ford? 

I was on holiday at Pentewan Sands (our regular family summer hol's in the 50s) and it had been a wet one.

On the way home on the road up to St Austell the river had burst it banks and most of the road was a ford!

In those days St Austell River was known as White River so you can guess that everywhere was white with china clay sediment.

[Nearholmer]

Similar to Pentewan in some ways: Bude Harbour sand tramway.

 

And, a whole network of very practical and un-picturesque 2ft gauge railways that extended from various concrete works at Rye Harbour, out to the beach-head and along as far as Cliff End, Fairlight, in connection with shingle-extraction and sea-defence activities.

[Fat Controller]

A 'seaside' railway, of the type used in construction, was to be found at the Warren, between Folkestone and Dover. It appeared to be of 2' gauge, and served to take concrete from the batching plant to wherever it was required on the concrete apron that protects the foot of the cliffs. There was quite a bit of rail in situ when I last visited.

[Nearholmer]

There was an early sub-sea railway there too, I think, in the form of 2ft(?) gauge lines into the first, abandoned, channel tunnel.

[Northroader]

A link from my mate Routier du Nord:

 

https://forum.e-train.fr/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3116&hilit=Cap+ferret

[Nearholmer]

That definitely looks like something to be savoured - many thanks.

[Nearholmer]

Germany hasn't really been given the airing that it deserves here, so https://www.entlang-der-gleise.de/Feldbahnen/feldbahn-kuestenschutz-arensch.html

[rockershovel]

13 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

A 'seaside' railway, of the type used in construction, was to be found at the Warren, between Folkestone and Dover. It appeared to be of 2' gauge, and served to take concrete from the batching plant to wherever it was required on the concrete apron that protects the foot of the cliffs. There was quite a bit of rail in situ when I last visited.

 

If we’re including construction railways, one if the first civils jobs I was on (after the 1980s oil price crash required a change of employment) was a sewer tunnel along the front at Bexhill on Sea. It was quite small, I believe 4’ diameter with a stock of 18” gauge track and bogies and two battery locos, which was moved from shaft to shaft as the work progressed. 

 

Around the same time Taylor Woodrow (?) constructed a much larger collector sewer along the front at Brighton, the tunnel railway was probably 2’ or even 30” gauge (24” gauge was common on tunnel construction). 

 

I also worked on an outfall project in Polperro in the 90s which had a 24” gauge railway, it started in the carpark and ran through the cliffs to an outfall overlooking the sea. 

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

Around the same time Taylor Woodrow (?) constructed a much larger collector sewer along the front at Brighton, the tunnel railway was probably 2’ or even 30” gauge (24” gauge was common on tunnel construction). 

 

Would this line have been anywhere near the Volk’s line?

[rockershovel]

2 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Would this line have been anywhere near the Volk’s line?

 

No, it was the other end, by the piers and West from there

[Fat Controller]

17 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

There was an early sub-sea railway there too, I think, in the form of 2ft(?) gauge lines into the first, abandoned, channel tunnel.

That was a little further along, at Shakespeare Cliff. Some of the rail from that served as handrails on the steps that led from the cottages, next to the tunnel portal, to the cliff top.

[Pacific231G]

On 17/02/2021 at 10:03, melmerby said:

Pentewan Dock & Concrete Co. also 2' 6" railway actually in the beach.

Each day after a high tide the little diesel (?) loco and & RB tracked digger would start digging out the sand & gravel covered tracks and carting it away in trucks.

the train would often derail whilst working the tracks with the digger lifting it back onto the rails.

 

EDIT

Some of the buildings, used by both railways at different times still exist.

Pentewan harbour entrance is totally silted up now.

 

 

The two railways at Pentewan have fascinated me since I visited the place while staying with friends in Liskeard in the later 1980s. At that time there was still some track including a set of points around the shed (above the ogle of Google Earth) in the above picture which may even still be there. The bridge that carried the sand railway to the extraction site between the high tide mark and the dunes was where the road bridge to the lower caravan park is now but AFAIR was pretty derelict then. The original Pentewan Railway was supposedly lifted after it closed in 1918 for use by the War Department but, since the sand railway serving the block making plant was built to the same 30 inch gauge as the older railway rather than the more common gauge, for a short industrial railway, of 24 inch, I very much suspect that the latter used some of the material from the former. (or was 30 inch a common gauge for industrial/mine railways in Cornwall?)   There is a 1953  aerial picture from Britain from Above (EAW051342)  in which you can make out the route of the sand railway though it only includes the start of the fan of sidings at the extraction site. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Pacific231G

[Northroader]

On 18/02/2021 at 00:26, Nearholmer said:

Germany hasn't really been given the airing that it deserves here, 

Try the Wangerooge Inselbahn:

 

[Northroader]

Don’t stop there, this looks like site where you can tour the whole lot.

https://www.inselbahn.de

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

  There is a 1953  aerial picture from Britain from Above (EAW051342)  in which you can make out the route of the sand railway though it only includes the start of the fan of sidings at the extraction site. 

I might be in that photo as the family were probably there in 1953, if it's the right weeks.

Not sure how you can see the fan of sidings in that photo as the resolution is not high.

 

A lot just disappeared under the the sand/gravel and only got exposed by the extraction but were re-buried as the tide washed more onto them every day.

I wonder whether they are still there? The current beach looks more extensive than it used to be.

[Tim V]

7 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I might be in that photo as the family were probably there in 1953, if it's the right weeks.

Not sure how you can see the fan of sidings in that photo as the resolution is not high.

 

A lot just disappeared under the the sand/gravel and only got exposed by the extraction but were re-buried as the tide washed more onto them every day.

I wonder whether they are still there? The current beach looks more extensive than it used to be.

Have you created an account? Fan of sidings clearly visible on full screen and zoomed in. What caravan/tent did you have - there's a number of those visible.

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Tim V said:

Have you created an account? Fan of sidings clearly visible on full screen and zoomed in. What caravan/tent did you have - there's a number of those visible.

No account, I just downloaded the picture as allowed after agreeing T&Cs

Do you get a better image?

We had a bog standard white ridge tent on one of the ordinary pitches.

Dad's car was a S/H green early post war Hillman Minx.(or more likely it was a pre-war 6 cyl Wolseley, that he had before that.)

Later they built some chalets at the Eastern (village) end of the site and we rented one of those.

Edited February 19, 2021 by melmerby

[Nearholmer]

4 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Do you get a better image?

 

Hugely.

 

The account costs nothing, and doesn't result in junk mail, so I think they only ask users to sign-up so as to limit load on their servers by preventing mass casual viewing at very high resolution.

 

Well worth the two minutes it takes.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Nearholmer

[rockershovel]

6 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

The two railways at Pentewan have fascinated me since I visited the place while staying with friends in Liskeard in the later 1980s. At that time there was still some track including a set of points around the shed (above the ogle of Google Earth) in the above picture which may even still be there. The bridge that carried the sand railway to the extraction site between the high tide mark and the dunes was where the road bridge to the lower caravan park is now but AFAIR was pretty derelict then. The original Pentewan Railway was supposedly lifted after it closed in 1918 for use by the War Department but, since the sand railway serving the block making plant was built to the same 30 inch gauge as the older railway rather than the more common gauge, for a short industrial railway, of 24 inch, I very much suspect that the latter used some of the material from the former. (or was 30 inch a common gauge for industrial/mine railways in Cornwall?)   There is a 1953  aerial picture from Britain from Above (EAW051342)  in which you can make out the route of the sand railway though it only includes the start of the fan of sidings at the extraction site. 

 

Cornish mines were generally narrow-vein operations using 18” gauge, or possibly 24”. The main exception was the 1970s reworking of Wheal Jane and Mount Wellington, which were trackless (rubber tyred scooptrams)

 

I do remember seeing some 30” gauge rails in the British Steel operations at Dragonby (Lincs), this would have been long out of use. 

 

18” gauge Eimco 12b at Wheal Geevor

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by rockershovel

[Nearholmer]

The outfit that seemed to like 30" gauge was The Royal Navy, it being used at several of their depots, which gave some supply of secondhand material, although far less than the avalanche of 24" gauge army-surplus material. I don't have the IRS handbook covering Cornwall, so can't check the origin of the locos used on the Pentewan sand railway. The Pentewan Railway proper had 'Pioneer', ex-Lodge Hill & Upnor, but that dodged the draft to navy, and seems to have stayed with the army, possibly going to Longmoor, when the management of the LH&U changed.

[Nearholmer]

Rowland Emmett ought to get a look in, because many of his best railway drawings were seaside themed. Rather than a train, here are some of the staff at the seaside, possibly fishing for misplaced apostrophes.

[melmerby]

30 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 I don't have the IRS handbook covering Cornwall, so can't check the origin of the locos used on the Pentewan sand railway.

The only loco I can remember was a small 4 wheel ride on loco (possible diesel). I've no idea of the make (Lister?)

 

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

 

18” gauge Eimco 12b at Wheal Geevor

Does that have a hydraulic motor?

[Nearholmer]

5 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The only loco I can remember was a small 4 wheel ride on loco

 

I think they had a R&H 30DL (which, if I'm right might have been ex-military) and possibly an O&K MD series loco.