Help needed with layout design please.

[nbaker]

Hi,

I have recently started building my first model railway, I am in my 50's and have trouble planning things (my brain doesn't work like it used to).

 

I have constructed my baseboard and have an idea of the elements that I want to include but I have no idea how to combine them into a useable layout.

 

I am using Peco OO setrack & flexi track with DCC control, and am going for the steam era during the 1930's-40's using small locos such as the Peckett, Barclay etc.

 

From left to right I am thinking of an industrial/wharf area with 2-3 dedicated lines in, the centre baseboard I would like a small country station with scenic/cuttings etc and the right hand side a small branch line station.

 

I am having great trouble designing what I picture in my mind and any help would be very gratefully received

 

[Pete the Elaner]

Since it is your first layout, don't try too much. You will get stuck with a few things (we all do) & your enthusiasm will slowly drain away until you run a train for the first time...which is extremely rewarding.

 

It sounds like you have a good idea of what you want, but just not how to arrange the track? I find maps are good inspiration. The National Library of Scotland's website has a lot of OS maps from different points in time. Many are good enough for you to see track arrangements & possibly pick some elements from different locations.

 

 

[KingEdwardII]

Are the dimensions on your plan showing a max size of 3.50m x 2.20m ?

 

Yours,  Mike.

[nbaker]

12 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

Are the dimensions on your plan showing a max size of 3.50m x 2.20m ?

 

Yours,  Mike.

Yes the plan is to scale and the baseboard is the maximum size I could realistically fit into my spare room,

[nbaker]

12 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Since it is your first layout, don't try too much. You will get stuck with a few things (we all do) & your enthusiasm will slowly drain away until you run a train for the first time...which is extremely rewarding.

 

It sounds like you have a good idea of what you want, but just not how to arrange the track? I find maps are good inspiration. The National Library of Scotland's website has a lot of OS maps from different points in time. Many are good enough for you to see track arrangements & possibly pick some elements from different locations.

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

I have seen plenty of my nice layouts in magazines & online but I have trouble recreating the elements in Anyrail.

[Philou]

@nbaker Hi to you too,

 

Just one or two things to be aware regarding your baseboards:

 

Anything over 900mm baseboard width could cause problems in stretching over lines and objects, so avoid putting too much track along the wall/outer edges - otherwise it'll be the 'nudge' and cause things to fall over or be displaced;

 

Curving lines look better than straight lines on-scene (doesn't matter in the fiddle yard area) and if you're using flexible track, you can have your station on a slight curve too.

 

To get it all in, your trackage on the left-hand side may need to tilt at 45° and likewise in the fiddle yard area. I haven't got Anyrail so I can't offer to have a fiddle and my favourite software package has been 'lost' in a harddrive failure so can't replicate there either for the moment, but I'm sure some kind souls will be along soon to assist.

 

Cheers and good luck,

 

Philip

[KingEdwardII]

I'd like to second Philip's comments about the baseboard widths. You have a centre section 1000mm wide - this will make it very tricky to reach anything at the back - the top left corner will be unreachable.

 

I recommend a "standard" baseboard max width of 600mm, unless you have easy access from both sides, which does not appear to be the case here. Interestingly, your branch line station on the right is on a board only 500mm wide - you may find it better to widen this to 600mm to fit everything in.

 

The thing about fitting a layout into a modest space is that the necessary curves push the running line(s) towards the outside so any track plan needs to take this into account. Something to consider up-front is what minimum radius of curve you will tolerate, at least on the main running tracks. Partly this will depend on what models you want to run. In Setrack terms, radius 1 (371mm) is pretty well a no-no since most modern RTR steam locos require at least radius 2 (438mm) and for the larger locos I regard that as a bit of a squeeze.

 

On my layout, which runs steam locos and occupies an L-shaped room a little bigger than your area, I imposed a minimum 500mm radius (that's approx radius 3 in setrack), but the main running lines are 600mm + (bigger than radius 4). OK, in your Wharf area you can have tight curves since that would likely have small shunting locos - and prototypically have sharp turns, but elsewhere you need larger radius curves.

 

Are you able to use any of the space at the bottom of your diagram - even if this means constructing a lifting or lift-out section? I am thinking in terms of a place to run trains to/from and store them - i.e. a fiddle yard...

 

Yours,  Mike.

[9C85]

Looking at your plan and the available area, are you planning on having any 'hidden sidings / fiddle yard '-  which gives the illusion of trains going to and coming from 'somewhere else ' off scene? Or are all your trains going to be visible all the time. 

If it's the latter, might I suggest you extend the main line at your branch line station to the bottom edge of the board and have something like an overbridge or a tunnel over the last couple of inches of track? This at least gives a suggestion that your line is connected to a bigger network. 

Also, do you intend to have each of your three areas modelled as separate 'scenes' or do you want one continuous scenic layout?

Again, if it's the latter, I would question the need for two stations, especially so close together. 

I would be tempted to have your industrial/wharf area rotated about 45 degrees clockwise (as suggested above by Philou) and connect it to the branch line station via a long, sweeping reverse/double/S-curve along the 'long' section. This would give your locos a chance to stretch their legs a bit.  

Also, if this curve was in a cutting, you could use the 'far wall' of the cutting to mask off a couple of hidden sidings which could  connect to your branchline station on the right. Speaking from experience as a first time layout builder  (if that even makes sense), a board width of 900 mm is a LOT to cover with scenery, especially if it's a single branch line in the countryside you are after.

You could have two, even three, hidden sidings along the back wall and have your backscene in front of those. You would still probably have a 600mm/2ft width of scenic section.

I hope you get a plan you're happy with and enjoy the whole process. 

 

[sb67]

Good luck with your first model railway, you'll get loads of advice and inspiration on here. 

Just a few thoughts;

Do you want all the elements connected or will they be 3 separate layous? did you want to include a fiddle yard to give the impression trains move off the layout away to the rest of the world?

I was wondering as could you concentrate on one layout at a time using separate baseboards if needed. You could build the wharf pretty small, just search through micro layouts on here, in order to get you started.

If you're going for 1 board, as said, you don't want it too wide so you cannot reach stuff, 

looking at your plan, the wharf and branch terminus may have to be built on a curve to fit them in.

There's a bit to think about but take your time and enjoy 

[nbaker]

Thank you for all of your replies and suggestions so far.

 

I will be fitting a backscene on the left industrial area and along the main layout which will take approx 2.5 inches from the width of the board and will fill the left corner with buildings so I should need to worry about reaching over too much.

 

I was aiming for all three sections to be connected as one layout.

 

I like the idea of hidden sidings but again would have no idea how to implement then.

 

I wasn't planning on having a fiddle yard but did consider briefly using the narrow right hand section for this, and I could easily extend the width of this if needed.

 

2 stations is not a necessity  and I agree the 2 would be too close together. 

[9C85]

 

I just so happened to take some photos of my hidden sidings last week, mainly to show how I nearly snookered myself by having no spare locos in my yard. The above shows the view from the top with the factory building that hides it removed.

This one shows how it looks normally 

 

The break between the 'real world' and the hidden sidings doesn't have to be too high, depending on the viewing angle of the layout. 

In the photo below, there's a hidden headshunt for the storage sidings behind the retaining wall. 

 

[9C85]

 

Apologies for jumping all over your thread but I enjoy a design challenge. 

I have gone old school and knocked something up with pen and paper.  I have therefore kept pointwork to a very low level, so it should fit in the required area. You should hopefully be able to expand the trackwork at the right hand station end to improve 'playability'

You will see that I have included 3  hidden sidings and perhaps somewhat optimistically turned them into loops, so you can turn trains around off scene, but you could get away with two (even one) dead end siding if you are happy to have light engines running on and off scene ( it's actually a deliberate inclusion on my layout). 

With the plan as drawn, you can have passenger trains arriving from the hidden sidings and being run around by their loco in the station, ready to depart off scene again. Similarly , a freight train could pull into the loop, and the engine could run around via the platform road and head down to the wharf

 

On your original plan, you have no means of swapping ends for the loco at your wharf. You could get around this by having a small shunting loco based at the wharf which could release the incoming loco, or you could have the inbound propel (push) the train from the station, down the branch to the wharf, where it would shunt its train.  When finished, It would drag its train back up to the station, run around, and nick off to the hidden sidings. 

 

Just typing this up has made me realise that the trackplan has potential to be a very enjoyable 'playable ' layout. 

 

Good luck with it.

[nbaker]

Many thanks for that it has certainly given me another perspective that I hadn't thought of and I very much like the idea.

 

Is that the Metcalfe retaining wall you are using?

 

I did think about have a full length retaining wall with road and terraced houses/shops etc so maybe I can combine this into the plan somehow

[9C85]

34 minutes ago, nbaker said:

Many thanks for that it has certainly given me another perspective that I hadn't thought of and I very much like the idea.

 

Is that the Metcalfe retaining wall you are using?

 

I did think about have a full length retaining wall with road and terraced houses/shops etc so maybe I can combine this into the plan somehow

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-X-Detailed-Model-Railway-Brick-Red-Retaining-Wall-For-HO-OO-Plaster-New-/223198483038

 

This is where I got the retaining wall.  It's pre-painted plastercast which looks OK straight out of the package but I weathered mine using a technique I also found on the internet.- it's in my thread from about page 6 I think.

I had to file down some of the edges to reduce gaps and also fill some gaps but once it's painted it looks the part. It's a lot quicker and more robust than a card or plastic kit. To install it, I screwed a 75mm high batten along the line of the wall I wanted, and simply Gorilla glued each wall section to the batten. As I mentioned, you might need to fettle each piece as you install it. I just used a workshop file to straighten everything up. 

I am contemplating having a row of terraced houses at one end of my layout, but it will probably be house  backs rather than having a road in front. 

[nbaker]

Had another play with Anyrail and got as far as I can with the demo version.

 

The right of the hidden? sidings would mirror the left, and the front part would be joined using flexi track.

 

Points in the plan would be changed to electro frog so this would throw things out again as they are different size to the setrack ones, but this is only a rough plan and I know things will need spacing out in the station area and industrial are to suit the buildings which I am in the process of building.

 

I think I would also like 2 lines in the front scenic area, would this be better to mirror the 1st track (not on plan) or go a different route?

[sb67]

Will you be narrowing the baseboard in the front area? If it were me, if possible I would creat a set of run round loops in the "hidden sidings" the same way a marshalling yard would look and although used to store trains you could actually scenic them to look like a yard, as long as you keep a loop clear you can run round stock hands free. 

Hope that makes some sort of sense.