Best 3D printer for model railways?

[Father Dougal]

Hi, now that prices are coming down, I am thinking about buying a 3D printer. I work in O gauge and I would like to print parts and accessories to make wagon and loco building a bit easier. I understand you can print in resin or various plastics.

Does anyone have experience of using a printer? I would be very much a beginner.

thanks

Dougal

[njee20]

I've reported your post and request it be moved to the 3D printing sub-forum.

 

I'll shamelessly repost something I wrote on the N Gauge Forum about this a while ago... All my printers are resin, so this is unashamedly all about resin printers.

 

[gross over simplification]There are two main types of 3D printer (actually more, but you can group them into 2): FDM or SLA, aka filament or resin. Filament ones extrude heated nylon a layer at a time, building up the model, whilst resin ones use a vat of liquid resin cured a layer at a time, by either a masked LCD or a laser.[/gross over simplification]

FDM printers often have larger build volumes, they're clean and don't smell but the detail is fairly crude. They're ok for scenic items, but I'd not make rolling stock with them.

Resin are messier, smellier, more faff and have smaller build volumes, but are far more detailed. 

There's a bit of an arms race between two main companies in home resin printers - Anycubic (with the Photon/Mono range) and Elegoo (with the Mars/Saturn range). Currently you can get a Photon Mono or a Mars 2 for £185/£215 respectively.  Go up a price point to ~£275-£300 and you get some extra bells and whilstles like carbon filters and marginal increases to build size - on the Mars 2 Pro or the Photon Mono SE. Go up again and you get bigger printers - the Photon Mono X or the Saturn, whilst neither are widely available still (batches drop regularly), they're ~£600 and £425 respectively. These are both slightly less detailed actually (0.0050mm resolution versus 0.0047mm), but the build volume is markedly bigger. I can print 3 wagons at a time (at a real push) on my Mars and Photon, but 7-8 at a time on my Saturn.

Go up again and you get into other brands - Phrozen, Peopoly etc. Peopoly do do a much bigger printer - the Phenom L, which is about £2500. The resolution is actually lower again, but it's very big. They do a Phenom XL and XXL too - the later is $7500, but will print an O gauge wagon in one piece!

For small items the basic Mars 2 at £215 is a superb printer IMO. But you need to think about whether that would be big enough. The Saturn has useful extra volume, but I'd think carefully about starting with one - you inevitably make mistakes, and these cost more on a bigger printer - more resin, more expensive spares etc.

Edited March 17, 2021 by njee20

[njee20]

To show the sort of thing you can do, this is a Saturn, showing an N gauge IIA, and 1/3 of an O gauge one!

 

O gauge IIA by njee20, on Flickr

 

All 3 pieces of hte IIA joined together:

 

O gauge IIA by njee20, on Flickr

 

You can see some of the detail you can get here: 

 

Untitled by njee20, on Flickr

 

Actually that needs a bit of reinforcement to survive painting and handling, but much of the door detail on that (OO gauge) wagon is 0.1mm across.

[Father Dougal]

Thank you for the replies. Didn’t realise we had a separate 3D printing thread.

I like the look of the wagons modelled. 
being a bit of a PC numpty, I wonder how hard it is to down load and tweak the files to the printer. I gather there are loads of free downloads out there. I like using the iPad, I expect this would be comparable with some printers.

Dougal

[Pete the Elaner]

Njee's reply was comprehensive & I completely agree.

 

I work in OO but am trying to scale up into S7. All my 3d printing has been for OO though.

You mentioned printing parts? This was what got me interested but parts for buildings, not wagons. I tried & failed to make window frames from plastruct so when I saw the results a friend was getting with his Anycubic Photon, I was impressed enough to buy one for myself & an now able to make neat, consistent windows.

The experience has changed my way of thinking so I am now able to see something I want & decide that 3d printing can achieve it.

I have thought about doing a conversion kit to make the LMS Turbomotive from a Princess, but I have not done any design for this.

 

It may be better to start off designing something you need. Different packages are available, mostly on-line so they work on any machine. I think they all have free versions which are very useful for many purposes.

I use Sketchup because that was what I was taught first but it may not be the most useful for complex designs. I normally use it from one of my Windows PCs but it also works on my Chromebook so it should work on an iPad too.

You need a program to convert the .stl design files to something useable for your printer. This will be supplied with the printer. My Photon came with software for a PC or Mac. I am not sure if Mac software can be used on an iPad, but I cannot do this part on the Chromebook.

 

I would not argue for or against either Sketchup or the Anycubic because they are simply all I have used.

Someone on RMWeb has done a set of tutorial videos for Fusion360 which are well worth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO6U0E0fVTEm9RUQMRtKVKQ

[njee20]

1 hour ago, Father Dougal said:

Thank you for the replies. Didn’t realise we had a separate 3D printing thread.

I like the look of the wagons modelled. 
being a bit of a PC numpty, I wonder how hard it is to down load and tweak the files to the printer. I gather there are loads of free downloads out there. I like using the iPad, I expect this would be comparable with some printers.

Dougal

If you're wanting to download pre-existing files you may find it too restrictive. There just isn't that much out there really. In order to really get the most out of a printer you want to be able to deisgn your own. There are various software packages for design - Shapr3D is on the iPad (needs an Apple Pencil and a very recent iPad), but is expensive in the paid version. Sketch Up, Fusion 360, TinkerCAD, FreeCAD etc are all free packages. I use Fusion 360, having tried all the others, and it works for me, but they all have their quirks. Carl's videos above are great.

Then you need the software for the printer and you will have to have a PC or Mac for that. As Pete said you'll generally get something bundled with the printer. Anycubic use their own software, Chitubox is the standard, they gradually add Anycubic models over time. Cura is the standard for FDM printers. You have to have a PC or Mac to run the slicing software - which takes the solid item and turns it into a series of horizonal 'layers', which the printer will then print. You also do orientation and supports in this software - you can see from my first photo above what the support structure looks like.

 

Most printers still need files transferring to them by USB, some (the Mono X and Mono SE) have Wifi connectivity.

 

They're not 'fit and forget' as it were. FDM printers need more physical fettling, people print parts to improve them, buy upgrades etc. Resin, by comparison, need more fiddling with software settings - exposure time, layer height, print orientation etc.

 

None of that intended to put you off, there is a steep learning curve, but it's well worth persisting! The online communities are very good, with active Facebook groups for all the major printers, who will help with troubleshooting issues you may have.

[Father Dougal]

Interesting subject. I spent a while looking at Carl’s videos of CAD design using the fusion 360 software. I don’t plan to print Loco shells or big wagons, more leaning towards detail pieces such as wipac light clusters or vac pipes, cab interiors to complement the kits I build in Brass.

 I like Carl’s videos as they focus on simple shapes to build up confidence.

 Looks like I will need a new PC as our current one is likely steam powered it is so old.

 Most videos and recommendations here suggest the same printers, which is reassuring.

 So, I need to save a few pennies first then I will give this 3D lark a go.

Dougal

Edited March 17, 2021 by Father Dougal

[Royal42]

Hi Dougal,

I have only been dabbling with Fusion 360 and 3D printing, with an Anycubic Photon, since September 2020 (on and off) and already managing to create some nice stuff.

 

This is an example of a vehicle I am drawing to N Gauge/1:148 scale

 

 

I have only just come across Carl's tutorials and intend to watch them soon.   I have picked up most of what I know by following this set of tutorial videos.  It is in 16 parts and although it is not modelling related, virtually every shape I have needed could be found in the tutorials.

 

cheers,
Mike

[Father Dougal]

Very impressive Mike.

[Royal42]

Thanks, you mentioned cab interiors and I think this is the perfect medium for producing just that.

Mike

[njee20]

If you were set on buying a printer the Mars 2 is £180 on Amazon today, they have done such a deal before, but that’s an absolute steal. I’m sorely tempted by another one myself. 

[monkeysarefun]

Also.... not trying to be a fly in the resin but do be ware  that resin printing does require a fairly comprehensive after-print processing.

 

Firstly, the print will be coated in un-cured resin which will settle in nooks and crannies and in any internal areas, this must be cleaned off first usually using IPA though there are water soluble resins gaining popularity. This process can be either dunking and swishing around in a container of IPA or you can get washing and curing stations that the printer makers sell that are like a little washing machine for 3D prints.

 

The resin isn't 'cured' until it is hit with UV, either stick it out in the sun unless you live in England,  or via  the  curing station that the printer makers sell mentioned above , or using a UV light source such as a nail-drying gizmo.

 

You also need a supply of  disposable gloves and ideally filter papers to filter unused resin back into the bottle, also sidecutters or similar to cut the support structure away from prints and some kind of scraper to get the prints off the build plate. I also use a flexible silicone kitchen spatula to help get all the resin out of the vat, and a supply of microfibre cloths because I find paper towel too scratchy on the clear FEP sheet of the resin tank.

 

Finally, the 'standard' resin is quite brittle, to the point that if you drop something made from it  on a hard surface it'll probably break. There are new resins developed however that are either flexible that you add to the standard resin or are labelled "Tuff"  and similar which are in themselves a lot more robust, to the point that they can be machined after curing. 

 

You do need a method of dealing with the contaminated IPA and resin, here I put it out in the sun and it evaporates to a mushy lump, others have other techniques depending on how environmentally concerned they are. 

 

Again, this is not meant to deter you, just letting you know what you are in for - none of the above is an imposition but can be messy and some people find the resin  smell either strong or offensive while others never notice it. 

 

However when all is said and done the  detail capable  on a 3D resin printer  is phenomenal and more than makes up for the after-print malarkey.

 

This was just grabbed off the" scan the world"  section of the myminifactory.com site ands sent straight to the printer - he lost his arm when I prised him off the build plate and he hit the concrete shed floor, but I just keep him here at work as a demo thing.. Pretty much every little detail on the  3D scan of the original was  reproduced successfully in the print.

(Hmm, dirty thumb nail..)

 

 

PS: loved your "My lovely Horse" Eurovision song entry.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[monkeysarefun]

2 hours ago, njee20 said:

If you were set on buying a printer the Mars 2 is £180 on Amazon today, they have done such a deal before, but that’s an absolute steal. I’m sorely tempted by another one myself. 

Its not a competition, just stop it!

[woko]

On 17/03/2021 at 12:59, njee20 said:

I've reported your post and request it be moved to the 3D printing sub-forum.

 

 

Opps I have just realised this is the sub forum!!! 

Edited March 22, 2021 by woko