Helston Revisited

[Andy Keane]

Following Phil's @Harlequin advice I am installing a grill into the tender of my new Hornby Castle. I always cover the plastic coal on these tenders with the real stuff so this time I have cut a letterbox through the moulding to where the speaker will sit and installed a mesh over the hole. Then the coal will follow and hopefully allow a direct air path for some sound! I found two sizes of mesh and have gone for the finer with 0.53mm holes in it:

[Andy Keane]

I have squeezed in a three watt dual STRAND25X20X08 from YouChoos into the tender so am hoping for some good output. Following John’s advice I am using the existing connection between tender and loco to carry sound one way and rail pickup the other. The chip and Staco1 will be in the smoke box and I am toying with two front lamps plus firebox glow. The trusty end mill has been used to cut the big loco weight down to allow all this.

Edited January 27 by Andy Keane

[Andy Keane]

Very nice 2mm layout at the Southampton show with a rather familiar track plan:

Edited January 27 by Andy Keane

[Nick C]

That was my first thought when I saw it too!

[Andy Keane]

Does anyone know if its possible to get the old pattern rail that Brunel laid the broad-gauge with in 4mm scale? I want to make up some fence posts and this stuff seems to be more often used by the GWR than bullhead rail, no doubt because they had so much scrap when they gave up the broad-gauge.

Edited January 27 by Andy Keane

[Nick C]

12 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Does anyone know if its possible to get the old pattern rail that Brunel laid the broad-gauge with in 4mm scale? I want to make up some fence posts and this stuff seems to be more often used by the GWR than bullhead rail, no doubt because they had so much scrap when they gave up the broad-gauge.

I believe the broad gauge society do. Otherwise it might be worth contacting one of the 3d printing firms - @mudmagnet perhaps? 

[Andy Keane]

1 minute ago, Nick C said:

I believe the broad gauge society do. Otherwise it might be worth contacting one of the 3d printing firms - @mudmagnet perhaps? 

Thanks - I see it on the BGS web site marked as being ready for 2022! So I have emailed them. I suspect it may not have the groove up the middle though.

[BWsTrains]

1 hour ago, Andy Keane said:

Does anyone know if its possible to get the old pattern rail that Brunel laid the broad-gauge with in 4mm scale? I want to make up some fence posts and this stuff seems to be more often used by the GWR than bullhead rail, no doubt because they had so much scrap when they gave up the broad-gauge.

 

Hi Andy,

 

I had the same issue regarding Bridge Rail for the fencing of my cattle dock extension. There were 13 different profiles of this rail from the earliest Brunel on with a diverse range of profiles, BGS has a chart of them all here:

 

http://www.broadgauge.org.uk/history/bg_track_sig.html

 

A great photo of them as posts and rails can be seen in the Cattle Pens at Shirley - Glos Warwickshire Rwy.

 

In the end I decided to bodge a suitable profile out of PS sheet. The logic was as follows:

1) probability favours a later track profile

2) these have a 6" sole plate (if that's the name) = 2mm at scale 

3) The most typical were only 3" height, max 4" so 1-1.3mm at scale

4) This is so small, precision would be overkill - hence scratch build

 

The fencing made can be seen here. As you'll see I even managed the groove up the middle.

 

Colin

 

 

 

Edited January 27 by BWsTrains
typos

[Andy Keane]

That very impressive work. However I need metal rails for my fence tensioners because I actually use them to tension the fence wires! I run fishing line along the whole length passing through holes in the wooden posts and then tension this between the end tensioner posts before locking off with cyano. I have done this before with wooden end posts quite successfully but I don't think plastic ones made as you have would be stiff enough (assuming I understand correctly what you have done of course). I may in the end just use bullhead rail instead. The only remaining ones at Helston are in fact made of flatbottom:

[BWsTrains]

Agreed, for load bearing it's going to have to be metal. Mine gained its good rigidity from quantity of substance rather than the physical quality!

 

Colin

[Andy Keane]

On 26/01/2024 at 17:27, Andy Keane said:

I have squeezed in a three watt dual STRAND25X20X08 from YouChoos into the tender so am hoping for some good output. Following John’s advice I am using the existing connection between tender and loco to carry sound one way and rail pickup the other. The chip and Staco1 will be in the smoke box and I am toying with two front lamps plus firebox glow. The trusty end mill has been used to cut the big loco weight down to allow all this.

And this is what it sounds like (before I add the extra coal):

 

Edited January 28 by Andy Keane

[Andy Keane]

Caldicot Castle is just about finished. All the DCC gubbins is in place and I have just about finished toning down the paintwork with weathering paints and powders. There was moment of confusion with the Staco1 stay alive on the Zimo chip to begin with. When using my bench DCC test set (an NCE Power Plus) the stay alive worked only intermittently (every thing else being just fine). After much testing and even getting John of YooChoos to fit a new one to no effect, it seems that its the DCC supply that causes the issue. When placed on my Helston layout with its meaty five amp NCE Power Pro all is fine all the time - most odd and the first time I have ever had such an issue. I wonder if this batch of Zimos is somehow different to previous ones which have not minded the supply type at all? I am also much indebted to Phil's @Harlequin trick of using a grill over the speaker to support the coal load - the sound from Caldicot is now epic - the lady wife came in to see what was going on as she could hear it from the main house!

Edited February 2 by Andy Keane

[Harlequin]

25 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Caldicot Castle is just about finished. All the DCC gubbins is in place and I have just about finished toning down the paintwork with weathering paints and powders. There was moment of confusion with the Staco1 stay alive on the Zimo chip to begin with. When using my bench DCC test set (an NCE Power Plus) the stay alive worked only intermittently (every thing else being just fine). After much testing and even getting John of YooChoos to fit a new one to no effect, it seems that its the DCC supply that causes the issue. When placed on my Helston layout with its meaty five amp NCE Power Pro all is fine all the time - most odd and the first time I have ever had such an issue. I wonder if this batch of Zimos is somehow different to previous ones which have not minded the supply type at all? I am also much indebted to Phil's @Harlequin trick of using a grill over the speaker to support the coal load - the sound from Caldicot is now epic - the lady wife came in to see what was going on as she could hear it from the main house! I will post some more pictures when the paint is all dry.

 

I've never been able to prove conclusively to other people that the coal speaker grille idea produces better sound that more traditional methods. I'm sure it does but whenever I try to record it on video the sound just doesn't come across for some reason. So I don't think I've convinced many people it's worth trying. I even idly thought about sending some of my locos on tour so other people could make their own minds up...

 

So it's really good to get this feedback from you and your wife(!) that there really is something in the idea!

 

Edit: And of course, it's not loudness that we are striving for but fidelity of sound reproduction, which is where the quality of the samples comes into play and there are some questions around that.

 

Edited February 2 by Harlequin

[Andy Keane]

4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

I've never been able to prove conclusively to other people that the coal speaker grille idea produces better sound that more traditional methods. I'm sure it does but whenever I try to record it on video the sound just doesn't come across for some reason. So I don't think I've convinced many people it's worth trying. I even idly thought about sending some of my locos on tour so other people could make their own minds up...

 

So it's really good to get this feedback from you and your wife(!) that there really is something in the idea!

 

Edit: And of course, it's not loudness that we are striving for but fidelity of sound reproduction, which is where the quality of the samples comes into play and there are some questions around that.

 

Yup - I find just the same - the sound on my YouTube videos does not do justice to the real thing (see below). Its a nice loud but also sharp and crisp sound - basically having an open air path avoids anything getting muffled. Of course having a nice 3W of speaker power also helps. I am sold on it where I can do it for future loco builds and conversions. What I would really like to try is an accurascale accurathrash speaker installed like this - I have a spare and did offer it up but it would have involved too much butchery of the Hornby tender. But if I ever get around to building an etched brass tender that is going to happen!

 

Edited February 2 by Andy Keane

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Caldicot Castle is just about finished. All the DCC gubbins is in place and I have just about finished toning down the paintwork with weathering paints and powders. There was moment of confusion with the Staco1 stay alive on the Zimo chip to begin with. When using my bench DCC test set (an NCE Power Plus) the stay alive worked only intermittently (every thing else being just fine). After much testing and even getting John of YooChoos to fit a new one to no effect, it seems that its the DCC supply that causes the issue. When placed on my Helston layout with its meaty five amp NCE Power Pro all is fine all the time - most odd and the first time I have ever had such an issue. I wonder if this batch of Zimos is somehow different to previous ones which have not minded the supply type at all? I am also much indebted to Phil's @Harlequin trick of using a grill over the speaker to support the coal load - the sound from Caldicot is now epic - the lady wife came in to see what was going on as she could hear it from the main house!

Not being a sound/stay-alive user, I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here but I wonder whether the loco is drawing too much inrush current when charging the stay-alive from the PowerCab (I assume that's what you meant)? The PowerCab is limited to approximately 2A.

[Andy Keane]

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Not being a sound/stay-alive user, I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here but I wonder whether the loco is drawing too much inrush current when charging the stay-alive from the PowerCab (I assume that's what you meant)? The PowerCab is limited to approximately 2A.

This can be an issue with stay alive circuits but the system Zimo use has a cunning current control circuit board that is supposed to control this and also allows low voltage capacitors to be used so they are very compact. But there must be something going on so maybe it’s not as clever as it thinks. I have asked John to check with Zimo when he next can to try and get a definitive answer.

[BWsTrains]

For what it's worth a few related comments which may be a help.

 

TBH I've never found the need for a very large Stay Alive even with my most inefficient loco motor (Older Hornby style) operating in those days over long curved insulfrogs.

 

I was charging up 2000uF of Cap to ensure smooth sailing over those frogs at low speed and the charging current draw never even brought on a twinkle from my fuse lamp which lights fully at ~0.65 Amp.

 

I've always used the ZIMO control circuits in my sound setups and what you describe is strange. I hope John can sort it out for you.

 

Putting an ammeter in the circuit might shed some light on what's going on. Or you can simply turn on the Power Cab on-board meter (Cab settings under PROG 6). I did this when I was getting transient shorts showing on my lamp/alarm.  I videoed the display on the power cab to see when precisely the short was occurring. It was a wagon with its BTBs out of wack and bridging across the rails.

 

good luck,

 

Colin

Edited February 3 by BWsTrains

[Andy Keane]

Another schoolboy error. In my ignorance I had connected up some of my track joints with a fishplate made of solder wiped over the gap. This has been fine up until that really cold snap and with the layout now in the loft. Rail contraction and hey presto several of these joints now have micro-cracks in them. Luckily being a bit of a sloth I have not yet laid any ballast so I am going around adding loops of wire under the base board to span these joints. Should have done this in the first place of course but I thought my little tabs of solder would suffice - am now older and wiser!

[Andy Keane]

The villa 3d print has arrived. Glazing, chimneys  and roof to add.

[Graham T]

That's quite impressive Andy!

[Andy Keane]

It's cheating really. All the work is in the CAD, but as it's one of only two buildings that are still there I thought worth the effort.

Edited February 6 by Andy Keane

[Graham T]

I wouldn't call it cheating at all - you have to do all the CAD work I assume?

[Andy Keane]

30 minutes ago, Graham T said:

I wouldn't call it cheating at all - you have to do all the CAD work I assume?

Yes indeed - many hours of fun! But the curved bay window roofs were what tipped the balanced over trad modelling - they would have been hard to do and also get symmetrical in card. You can see this house on google maps if you look up 54 Godolphin Road, Helston.

[BWsTrains]

At a tangent to the current topic flow, I'm interested in your and the followers' thoughts on the loading gauge at Helston.

 

I went looking because with no prototype to guide my work I thought Helston might be an excellent model, with the various goods lines all converging near the main.

It turns out the gauge was located on the single siding with a dedicated loading platform #; the main Goods lines do not fall under its perview. The photos are all here:

 

CRS - Helston Branch

I'm sure you're very familiar with them.

 

Given a single catch all gauge was clearly not possible, it's interesting that:

 

1) It's operating on the line in question and not the two main goods lines

2) Why wasn't there simply a second one for outgoing traffic from the Goods Shed

 

Perhaps Mike @The Stationmaster could provide some insights here?

 

# In the photo of your post of Nov 30th (p62) it was located before the turnout at extreme right of pic.

 

 

Colin

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7 by BWsTrains
correction of date in footnote

[Andy Keane]

8 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

At a tangent to the current topic flow, I'm interested in your and the followers' thoughts on the loading gauge at Helston.

 

I went looking because with no prototype to guide my work I thought Helston might be an excellent model, with the various goods lines all converging near the main.

It turns out the gauge was located on the single siding with a dedicated loading platform #; the main Goods lines do not fall under its perview. The photos are all here:

 

CRS - Helston Branch

I'm sure you're very familiar with them.

 

Given a single catch all gauge was clearly not possible, it's interesting that:

 

1) It's operating on the line in question and not the two main goods lines

2) Why wasn't there simply a second one for outgoing traffic from the Goods Shed

 

Perhaps Mike @The Stationmaster could provide some insights here?

 

# In the photo of your post of Nov 30th (p58) it was located before the turnout at extreme right of pic.

 

 

Colin

 

 

 

 

Yes, the problem is that the point that joins the goods shed siding and the back siding together is very close to the one where they join the main line to the platform, so there is no space for a combined gauge. Also note that the crane was between that point and the goods shed, so its swing would have also limited where you could add a second gauge. But even so it would surely have been possible to have a second one. I suppose the logic was to save costs and maintenance and simply to instruct staff that anything that might look like an issue be gauged by shunting into the back siding to check?

Andy

ps not sure which of my posted photos you are referring to as I cannot find one at Nov 30th.

Edited February 7 by Andy Keane