Helston Revisited

[BWsTrains]

2 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

ps not sure which of my posted photos you are referring to as I cannot find one at Nov 30th.

 

Sorry Andy,

 

I had the wrong page number (now corrected) but correct date.

The photo is this one top of p62

 

And this one from October

 

 

I spent so much time scrolling thru that my head must have been spinning 😵‍💫

 

 

Edited February 7 by BWsTrains

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

I had the wrong page number (now corrected) but correct date.

ok - i was confused thinking you were referring to a photo that shows the actual loading gauge, as I have not yet fitted mine.

Andy

[Mulgabill]

9 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Yes, the problem is that the point that joins the goods shed siding and the back siding together is very close to the one where they join the main line to the platform, so there is no space for a combined gauge. Also note that the crane was between that point and the goods shed, so its swing would have also limited where you could add a second gauge. But even so it would surely have been possible to have a second one. I suppose the logic was to save costs and maintenance and simply to instruct staff that anything that might look like an issue be gauged by shunting into the back siding to check?

Andy

ps not sure which of my posted photos you are referring to as I cannot find one at Nov 30th.

 

My understanding is that the loading gauges were there to facilitate the checking of individual wagons.

However there is, I suspect, a tendency  for that being confused with the simplistic expectation that

each train departs through the gauge. But normally the outer ends of the gauge are lifted up, and

only lowered when a wagon in doubt of being out of gauge is passed thorough.

 

If my memory is correct (very dubious assumption), Lawrence hill station (Bristol) had its weighbridge

and loading gauge on a siding which could hold only 2 or 3 wagons.

 

TONY

[Mulgabill]

10 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Yes, the problem is that the point that joins the goods shed siding and the back siding together is very close to the one where they join the main line to the platform, so there is no space for a combined gauge. Also note that the crane was between that point and the goods shed, so its swing would have also limited where you could add a second gauge. But even so it would surely have been possible to have a second one. I suppose the logic was to save costs and maintenance and simply to instruct staff that anything that might look like an issue be gauged by shunting into the back siding to check?

Andy

ps not sure which of my posted photos you are referring to as I cannot find one at Nov 30th.

 

My understanding is that the loading gauges were there to facilitate the checking of individual wagons.

However there is, I suspect, a tendency  for that being confused with the simplistic expectation that

each train departs through the gauge. But normally the outer ends of the gauge are lifted up, and

only lowered when a wagon in doubt of being out of gauge is passed thorough.

 

If my memory is correct (very dubious assumption), Lawrence hill station (Bristol) had its weighbridge

and loading gauge on a siding which could hold only 2 or 3 wagons.

 

TONY

[Mulgabill]

10 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Yes, the problem is that the point that joins the goods shed siding and the back siding together is very close to the one where they join the main line to the platform, so there is no space for a combined gauge. Also note that the crane was between that point and the goods shed, so its swing would have also limited where you could add a second gauge. But even so it would surely have been possible to have a second one. I suppose the logic was to save costs and maintenance and simply to instruct staff that anything that might look like an issue be gauged by shunting into the back siding to check?

Andy

ps not sure which of my posted photos you are referring to as I cannot find one at Nov 30th.

 

My understanding is that the loading gauges were there to facilitate the checking of individual wagons.

However there is, I suspect, a tendency  for that being confused with the simplistic expectation that

each train departs through the gauge. But normally the outer ends of the gauge are lifted up, and

only lowered when a wagon in doubt of being out of gauge is passed thorough.

 

If my memory is correct (very dubious assumption), Lawrence hill station (Bristol) had its weighbridge

and loading gauge on a siding which could hold only 2 or 3 wagons.

 

TONY

[Mulgabill]

10 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Yes, the problem is that the point that joins the goods shed siding and the back siding together is very close to the one where they join the main line to the platform, so there is no space for a combined gauge. Also note that the crane was between that point and the goods shed, so its swing would have also limited where you could add a second gauge. But even so it would surely have been possible to have a second one. I suppose the logic was to save costs and maintenance and simply to instruct staff that anything that might look like an issue be gauged by shunting into the back siding to check?

Andy

ps not sure which of my posted photos you are referring to as I cannot find one at Nov 30th.

 

My understanding is that the loading gauges were there to facilitate the checking of individual wagons.

However there is, I suspect, a tendency  for that being confused with the simplistic expectation that

each train departs through the gauge. But normally the outer ends of the gauge are lifted up, and

only lowered when a wagon in doubt of being out of gauge is passed thorough.

 

If my memory is correct (very dubious assumption), Lawrence hill station (Bristol) had its weighbridge

and loading gauge on a siding which could hold only 2 or 3 wagons.

 

TONY

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

 

My understanding is that the loading gauges were there to facilitate the checking of individual wagons.

However there is, I suspect, a tendency  for that being confused with the simplistic expectation that

each train departs through the gauge. But normally the outer ends of the gauge are lifted up, and

only lowered when a wagon in doubt of being out of gauge is passed thorough.

 

If my memory is correct (very dubious assumption), Lawrence hill station (Bristol) had its weighbridge

and loading gauge on a siding which could hold only 2 or 3 wagons.

 

TONY

I heard you the third time, as a friend's father always used to say!

[Andy Keane]

As I potter on I have returned to thoughts about bridge rail stretcher posts. There is a whole (now closed) RMweb topic on this: 

This was helpful in getting me started and pointed to GWRJ vol 56 page 453 where there is an article with drawings. I am now turning these into CAD with a view to 3D printing the stretcher posts in nylon (including the first wooden post and a thin base plate plus extensions that go down into the ground). They are quite complex because the diagonal brace is both bent twice and twisted (heaven knows how they actually did this). Interestingly the drawings show the fences with eight wires while I had always assumed they had seven as per the Ratio RO423 GWR Lineside Fencing kits. Since I propose to use those posts for my main runs of fencing I will use seven lines rather than eight. I plan LH and RH end stretchers plus a few double stretchers of the sort that were found midway along long runs of fencing. If anyone is interested in some when I get that far please PM me, because I will get a better rate on the commercial print run that way - and to get a tough high quality nylon part I cannot use a home resin printer. I will use fishing line for the wire to get it smooth and taught with a small diameter.

 

Edited February 21 by Andy Keane

[MJI]

I am trying to find decent track plans. Any ideas where is best, I have the signal box one.

[Andy Keane]

32 minutes ago, MJI said:

I am trying to find decent track plans. Any ideas where is best, I have the signal box one.

Do you mean a scale track plan of Helston? I have a large scale version of the pre-1900 plan but not one of the more recent point arrangements. In the end I based my layout on various photos, but I know that points 6 and 8 varied over time and mine may not be perfect. I drew it up in AnyRail by laying a series of flex curves over each other and then printed that full scale for the points build. Happy to share anything I have.

Andy

[MJI]

12 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Do you mean a scale track plan of Helston? I have a large scale version of the pre-1900 plan but not one of the more recent point arrangements. In the end I based my layout on various photos, but I know that points 6 and 8 varied over time and mine may not be perfect. I drew it up in AnyRail by laying a series of flex curves over each other and then printed that full scale for the points build. Happy to share anything I have.

Andy

 

No a  couple of staions up, with the big yard.

 

Could do with a reasnable map, but do not know where to look.

[Tim Dubya]

Spotted on Facebook.

 

 

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

 

No a  couple of staions up, with the big yard.

 

Could do with a reasnable map, but do not know where to look.

The 25 inch to the mile OS for 1906 is online and free at: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=10.2&lat=50.05025&lon=-5.12400&layers=101&b=1&z=0&point=50.19604,-5.32907&i=105995605

The stations on the branch were Nancegollan which had quite a reasonable set of sidings when it was re-built in the 1930s and the mainline junction at Gwinear Road had even more as it was use to store wagons when not needed. Both can be found on the above link. I also paid for aerial photos of Helston from the national collections and I suspect there will be good photos of these two stations. A survey of the whole area was done from the air by reconnaissance Spitfire during the war!

None of this remains now of course.

Andy

[Andy Keane]

As part of a rush of madness I have also just gotten a Kernow Steam railmotor (No 97) with factory fitted YouChoos sound. It is really very lovely but certainly will need a stay-alive when I come to add the crew and passengers. However it has also flushed out one major civil engineering problem. With hindsight I rather optimistically built the bridge over the line at the station entrance exactly to scale but then inserted a third radius curve through it. So far everything has just squeezed through but not the Railmotor - it is too long, so its overhangs foul the stonework at the driving end where the valve gear guide sticks out and amidships where the curve causes the bodywork to hang well to one side as the bogie pivots are so far apart. Luckily I have noy yet glued the bridge down as it is going to need some major surgery - such is life!

Andy

 

I have now managed to splay out the walls at the rear, fiddleyard end, and that seems to do the trick without messing with the view from the main part of the layout. Luckily the butchered aspect is deep in the cutting so does not show too much.

Edited February 23 by Andy Keane

[MJI]

28 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

The 25 inch to the mile OS for 1906 is online and free at: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=10.2&lat=50.05025&lon=-5.12400&layers=101&b=1&z=0&point=50.19604,-5.32907&i=105995605

The stations on the branch were Nancegollan which had quite a reasonable set of sidings when it was re-built in the 1930s and the mainline junction at Gwinear Road had even more as it was use to store wagons when not needed. Both can be found on the above link. I also paid for aerial photos of Helston from the national collections and I suspect there will be good photos of these two stations. A survey of the whole area was done from the air by reconnaissance Spitfire during the war!

None of this remains now of course.

Andy

 

Nancegollan I am trying. So where to get aerial phopo then please?

[Tim Dubya]

4 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

Nancegollan I am trying. So where to get aerial phopo then please?

 

I've used this before:

 

https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/

 

 

[Andy Keane]

7 minutes ago, MJI said:

Nancegollan I am trying. So where to get aerial phopo then please?

I went to Historic England:

Angharad Wicks

Cataloguing Officer and Archive Customer Services Officer

Email: Angharad.Wicks@HistoricEngland.org.uk

[Andy Keane]

7 minutes ago, Tim Dubya said:

 

I've used this before:

 

https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/

 

 

Unfortunately they don't have any of the Helston branch.

[KeithMacdonald]

Here's Nancegollan (early version)

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.0&lat=50.14283&lon=-5.30443&layers=168&b=1&marker=50.186430,-5.418167

 

 

Praze

 

Gwinnear Road

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.0&lat=50.19713&lon=-5.34694&layers=168&b=1&marker=50.186430,-5.418167

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Nancegollan in 1955 from Flickr

 

 

2016

 

 

[Andy Keane]

25 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Here's Nancegollan (early version)

Later on there were many more sidings at Nancegollan, I think for the spring vegetable traffic.

[MJI]

26 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Later on there were many more sidings at Nancegollan, I think for the spring vegetable traffic.

 

That is what caught me, got 3 locos, 9 carriages, 7 hoppers, about 10 vans, 6 cattle, and a few opens so far.

[Andy Keane]

No doubt you have found this thread: http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/helston-branch.html

It has lots of pictures of Nancegollan and a sketch of the later track plan.

Andy

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

2 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Later on there were many more sidings at Nancegollan, I think for the spring vegetable traffic.

 

The 25,000 series map gives a clue.

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.8&lat=50.14264&lon=-5.30594&layers=10&b=1&marker=50.142,-5.309

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

1 hour ago, Andy Keane said:

No doubt you have found this thread: http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/helston-branch.html

It has lots of pictures of Nancegollan and a sketch of the later track plan.

 

Using the two Flickr images to give position, and the CRS track plan, here's a guestimate of what Nancegollan might have looked like. All suggestions welcome.😀