RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2021 Quick question to those in the know. Collett 74xx No. 7428 worked on the Bala branch from the early 1950s until withdrawal from Croes Newydd shed in the early 1960s. During this time, right up to withdrawal she carried G.W.R. on her tank sides, thereby never carrying any form BR emblem. I ve been looking at various photos of this loco trying to work out if her livery was GWR green or war time black, but as you can guess by the late 1950s hard working engines were often covered in soot and grime, making it impossible to discern the livery underneath. Does anyone know what livery she carried please ? Many Thanks in advance Bob C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 It is possible it had a BR black application that has worn off (including an insignia) to show the post-1942 GWR lettering. You have the colour picture I assume? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Chalked on apparently. https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p203428898/h486EBBB8#h486ebbb8 A few more on Google suggests it's a fake done by enthusiasts. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gwr+7428&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilirzxr5LwAhVpVBUIHRuwDogQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1366&bih=657 Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 22, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2021 Hi Miss Prism No that's the problem, l ve only got photos in various publications, which are all black and white unfortunately Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 19 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Chalked on apparently. I think that was done (at Oswestry) after withdrawal. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Colour pic sent in PM, Blobrick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 The provenance of this image is unknown to me. . If anyone objects to its' appearing here, please speak up, and it will be removed. . The weathering of the loco doesn't suggest the "G W R " is chalked on. . Thrown open to the floor. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 22, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Miss Prism said: Colour pic sent in PM, Blobrick Many thanks, for the photo, l ve not seen that one before. However even although its a colour photo, l still can not discern the body colour under the grime. More detective work required, me thinks Bob C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 22, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 hour ago, br2975 said: The provenance of this image is unknown to me. . If anyone objects to its' appearing here, please speak up, and it will be removed. . The weathering of the loco doesn't suggest the "G W R " is chalked on. . Thrown open to the floor. Thanks for finding this photo, the loco is a weathering challenge!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, Blobrick said: However even although its a colour photo, l still can not discern the body colour under the grime. It's academic. What you see is the grime. The grime is the livery. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 22, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2021 35 minutes ago, Miss Prism said: It's academic. What you see is the grime. The grime is the livery. Yes quite true Miss P, very good point 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, br2975 said: The provenance of this image is unknown to me. . If anyone objects to its' appearing here, please speak up, and it will be removed. . The weathering of the loco doesn't suggest the "G W R " is chalked on. . Thrown open to the floor. The other photo is as if the GWR has been chalked over or even painted. It's far too clear to be an old livery. https://www.flickr.com/photos/kerryp28/5693480315 I personally reckon it's faded and worn black paint with an earlier livery showing through. Probably manipulated by someone to show the GWR. https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p687266031/e36858bad No GWR visible in this photo and just looks dirty BR black. https://rcts.zenfolio.com/steam-gwr/7400-class-0-6-0pt/ea0ff3fdd Another view here. https://rcts.zenfolio.com/steam-gwr/7400-class-0-6-0pt/ea0ff59a8 No pictures in the relevant Pannier Papers book unfortunately. Jason Edited April 22, 2021 by Steamport Southport 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 25, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 25, 2021 On 22/04/2021 at 21:06, br2975 said: The provenance of this image is unknown to me. . If anyone objects to its' appearing here, please speak up, and it will be removed. . The weathering of the loco doesn't suggest the "G W R " is chalked on. . Thrown open to the floor. Definitely looks as if it has been cleaned back through later paint 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 I think possibly a quick coat of wartime black is wearing a bit thin and the original GW green is showing through in quite a few places. There is definitely some green showing through. Problem is, if you finished your model with that livery, no one would believe it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2021 12 hours ago, Quintus said: I think possibly a quick coat of wartime black is wearing a bit thin and the original GW green is showing through in quite a few places. There is definitely some green showing through. Problem is, if you finished your model with that livery, no one would believe it! Just as likely a post nationalisation ccoat of black applied in the parsimonius fashion of some WR works (I exclude Caerphilly from that comment). I seriously doubt that most engines got more that an single coat of black over existing (cleaned down) paintwork when you consider that at Swndon steam engines in lined green livery only got an undercoat and a top coat before lining and (possibly) a cat of varnish. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 28, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) On 27/04/2021 at 11:26, The Stationmaster said: Just as likely a post nationalisation coat of black applied in the parsimonius fashion of some WR works Not just a preserve of the WR. There was Johnson 2F at Monument Lane c1960 with the outline of its LMS number clearly visible. Edited April 28, 2021 by TheSignalEngineer Typo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 On 28/04/2021 at 20:15, TheSignalEngineer said: Not just a preserve of the WR. There was Johnson 2F at Monument Lane c1960 with the outline of its LMS number clearly visible. ...... and a 4F at Bolton c.1962 with LMS clearly showing under a very thin coat of black paint on the tender. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 I saw one photograph of a LNER 0-6-0 during the 1946 renumbering where they haven't even bothered with the coat of black paint. They've just put the new number on top of the old one! I think it was a J11. Photo was in MRC in the late 1970s in an article about LNER liveries. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted May 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2021 Have you seen the one in this post? PGH said in the caption that it was chalked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted May 8, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2021 6 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said: Have you seen the one in this post? PGH said in the caption that it was chalked. If the lettering is chalked on, its very neat and tidy? Bob C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, Blobrick said: If the lettering is chalked on, its very neat and tidy? Bob C Most likely the outline was readily visible as a guide. For a modern example look at photos of 5322s tender as currently painted black - the outline of ROD 5322 is clearly visible. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted May 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2021 18 minutes ago, Blobrick said: If the lettering is chalked on, its very neat and tidy? Probably too neat and tidy for the time it was supposed to be. It would have been showing some wear from removing all that crud. There was a Super D at Bescot which had LMS on the tender in the 1960s and that fooled a lot of people but that was done with chalk. Several ex-LMS locos around the area had the outlines of their old numbers visible through the paint, just like when you do over the transfers on a model without rubbing down. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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