Amber or Warm White

[AliR53]

I am modelling the interiors of some 00 BR Mk1 Blood and Custard Coaches. I seem to have a choice of Amber or Warm White for the lighting strips. Any advice on the most appropriate colour will be gratefully received?

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Al 

[Mark Saunders]

From memory the early 70’s had bulbs with a definite yellowish tinge!

[The Johnster]

Blood & Custard mk1s were built and painted in the 1950-56 period, but the lighting was not altered until the 1966 blue/grey livery, and even then not on all coaches, only the 'refurbished' examples fitted with B4 bogies for 100mph running, initially.  The lighting was low power filament screw in bulbs, rated at 24v IIRC to be fed from the dynamo and battery system on the coach.  The bulbs were, I think but don't quote me without checking, 40watters with 25 watters for the reading lamps, which had slightly off white shades though that may have just been tobacco staining and general dirt. 

 

The appearance of a lit train at night was therefore of very dim lighting.  Compartment coaches had a switch above the compartment door for passengers to choose bright (not very bright) or dim (very dim) lighting levels, so some compartments would appear to be more brightly, or perhaps it would be better to describe it as 'less dimly' lit than others.  The level of lighting you are aiming for is too dim to be visible in normal ambient layout lighting conditions; if you can see that the coach is lit in your normal operating lighting, you've got it way too bright.  It was not easy to see that the lights were on if the train was in a brightly lit station.

 

I would suggest that warm white is more representative than amber or yellow, but on the auto set that I have lit with warm white battery lighting I have had to tone things down with matt white acrylic paint over the leds.  They put out very little heat and this is safe.

 

The painting of the interior has an effect as well.  The inside of the carriage roofs were cream, or again maybe this was tobacco stain and dirt, and the compartment dividers and sides, as well as the corridor sides, were panelled in wood veneer; the type of wood was given on little enamal notice plates!  Seating was a reddish pattern in 2nd class, and a light bluish grey in 1st, and as the general cast of the lighting was warm and the reflecting surfaces mostly warm colours, amber, yellow, or orange lighting is not needed to create a realistic effect.

 

Post 1966 refurbished coaches and new builds had a much colder cast; the lighting was replaced with flouresecent tubes and the panelling replaced with a lighter coloured Formica.  Seating was now in a green moquette in 2nd, and dark blue in 1st.  The result was brighter, but colder, lighting, with if anything a blueish tinge.  You still don't want to be aware of it in normal 'daylight' conditions, but you can clearly now see that coaches are lit in dull weather or in a brightly lit station at night.  Cold white leds are ideal but again, you my find them too bright, and need to tone them down by overpainting.  IIRC there was no 'bright/dim' switch for the passengers, but there were stil reading lamps.

 

 

[AliR53]

I have subsequently asked Lights4U and they recommended Amber. I may just get one of each and see which I prefer, although my nostalgic recollections will probably lean to Amber.

 

Thank you for the very informative reply, The Johnster.

[45125]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Blood & Custard mk1s were built and painted in the 1950-56 period, but the lighting was not altered until the 1966 blue/grey livery, and even then not on all coaches, only the 'refurbished' examples fitted with B4 bogies for 100mph running, initially.  The lighting was low power filament screw in bulbs, rated at 24v IIRC to be fed from the dynamo and battery system on the coach.  The bulbs were, I think but don't quote me without checking, 40watters with 25 watters for the reading lamps, which had slightly off white shades though that may have just been tobacco staining and general dirt. 

 

The appearance of a lit train at night was therefore of very dim lighting.  Compartment coaches had a switch above the compartment door for passengers to choose bright (not very bright) or dim (very dim) lighting levels, so some compartments would appear to be more brightly, or perhaps it would be better to describe it as 'less dimly' lit than others.  The level of lighting you are aiming for is too dim to be visible in normal ambient layout lighting conditions; if you can see that the coach is lit in your normal operating lighting, you've got it way too bright.  It was not easy to see that the lights were on if the train was in a brightly lit station.

 

I would suggest that warm white is more representative than amber or yellow, but on the auto set that I have lit with warm white battery lighting I have had to tone things down with matt white acrylic paint over the leds.  They put out very little heat and this is safe.

 

The painting of the interior has an effect as well.  The inside of the carriage roofs were cream, or again maybe this was tobacco stain and dirt, and the compartment dividers and sides, as well as the corridor sides, were panelled in wood veneer; the type of wood was given on little enamal notice plates!  Seating was a reddish pattern in 2nd class, and a light bluish grey in 1st, and as the general cast of the lighting was warm and the reflecting surfaces mostly warm colours, amber, yellow, or orange lighting is not needed to create a realistic effect.

 

Post 1966 refurbished coaches and new builds had a much colder cast; the lighting was replaced with flouresecent tubes and the panelling replaced with a lighter coloured Formica.  Seating was now in a green moquette in 2nd, and dark blue in 1st.  The result was brighter, but colder, lighting, with if anything a blueish tinge.  You still don't want to be aware of it in normal 'daylight' conditions, but you can clearly now see that coaches are lit in dull weather or in a brightly lit station at night.  Cold white leds are ideal but again, you my find them too bright, and need to tone them down by overpainting.  IIRC there was no 'bright/dim' switch for the passengers, but there were stil reading lamps.

 

 

Fluorescent lighting appeared a lot early then blue/grey era, the very early sixties was when open vehicles began to appear with four door fluorescent lamps. 

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by 45125