Seeking prototype details for Hornby R6712 five plank open wagon

[mikesndbs]

Hi

 

I've looked through my books and a couple of online databases seeking more information about E312409 five plank open wooden bodied wagon.

My copy of the first half million suggests "Wagons 312409 to 312411 lot 3430 built by Teesside Bridge and Engineering ltd. Total built 500.

However I am not sure if the 'E' prefix matters?

I am after build date.

I have a suspicion they might have ended up as Clay Hoods later.

 

Can anyone help please?

 

(image from Hattons)

 

[Wickham Green too]

This is a generic body that goes back to Airfix days ......... a little chunky but a fair representation of an LMS open goods.

 

Now, Ashford works built a number of these during the war including some for the LNER : Nos.262849-263223  -  so Hornby are close-ish.

 

( Nos.E310891-E313120 were also built at Ashford but were to an LNER design and differed in detail.)

[hmrspaul]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

This is a generic body that goes back to Airfix days ......... a little chunky but a fair representation of an LMS open goods.

 

Now, Ashford works built a number of these during the war including some for the LNER : Nos.262849-263223  -  so Hornby are close-ish.

 

The suggestion is https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lneropenwood/e126c905f  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lneropenwood/e163e75cc

 

Paul

[mikesndbs]

Great stuff thanks both, yes that looks very like them Paul.

 

So for the models a build date of mid 1940s and at Ashford would be a fair assessment?

 

 

[Fat Controller]

I saw several similar wagons in china-clay workings to the Potteries during the 1978-82 period. Some were fitted with roller bearings; they were sheeted, but didn't have support bars as the Clayhoods did.

[Wickham Green too]

That was probably ball-clay from Meeth rather than china clay !

[Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

That was probably ball-clay from Meeth rather than china clay !

They were used on both; I worked at Longport in the winter of 1979-80, so got to read the labels.

[mikesndbs]

Thanks again, I have a photo of one now in the number series, marked as an ex LNER wagon built 1938.

Does that fit?

[Wickham Green too]

Either the number's wrong or the date is .......... the identifying feature of the LMS type is the staggered bolting to the corner plate - the LNER put all their bolts in line !

[Nearholmer]

37 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

the identifying feature of the LMS type is the staggered bolting to the corner plate - the LNER put all their bolts in line !

 

I hate to be a bolt-counter, but the wagon in Paul's photo has staggered bolts, and is attributed to the LNER.

 

Could it be that they were built with staggered bolts to give better resistance to splitting of the boards through the bolt-holes? 

[Wickham Green too]

They were, indeed, built for the LNER - but, during the war, by Ashford ........ Ashford also built  wagons to an LMS design at about the same time - and obviously used the same drawings for the wagons in question.

[mikesndbs]

Oh great info thanks very much.

 

So I can say with some confidence that these wagons were built at Ashford, during WW2 for the LNER and are shown here after BR took them over?

[Wickham Green too]

........ once you've changed the numbers : see my first post at the top of this thread.

( Details from Tatlow's LNER Wagons 4a ...... apart from identification of LNER dia.184 as an LMS design - for which I'll happily take the blame.)

[hmrspaul]

6 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

They were, indeed, built for the LNER - but, during the war, by Ashford ........ Ashford also built  wagons to an LMS design at about the same time - and obviously used the same drawings for the wagons in question.

The suggestion (probably on here) was that building wagons was of lower importance in the war effort than manufacturing munitions. So, Ashford being closest to the front line became the wagon builder and the LMS, LNER and GWR workshops were, at least in part, turned over to producing arnaments etc. Ashford certainly turned out a lot of vans and open merchandise wagons. 

 

Paul