Dymented - the Serious stuff starts!

[Philou]

@lezz01 I knew about the web cutting quite some ago - but I've no need for too much curving - just a tad. IIRC, you can cut the webbing for the most part except in the vicinity of the frog itself. There were a few threads some time ago regarding variations of complex pointwork just using Peco points (some were dire) but some looked exceedingly professional. This was just an exercise of 'what will happen' without any tools. My angst will commence once I have to shorten the crossovers to get to my 45mm centres!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[lezz01]

As it happens that came up in the same article that had the curving in I've also seen people convert 00 points to EM for use in fiddle yards.

Regards Lez.   

[5BarVT]

1 hour ago, Philou said:

My angst will commence once I have to shorten the crossovers to get to my 45mm centres!

See Hills of the North and other threads where Graham (LNER4479) has been doing tracklaying for photos of his ‘scale’ track centres.  I think he does point curving too.

Paul.

[Philou]

22 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

‘scale’ track centres

 

Oh, I've already done the shortening to achieve 45mm centres some time ago for some modules for the club (I posted a picture a page or two back) but that was Code 100 and stock that I had bought eons ago - the packs, unopened, bore the price of £1.95 for the points so I didn't mind too much if I got it wrong. It's just that we're now talking of brand new Code 75 stock which is expensive (probably no more so than the 80s values though).

 

I've just given the last of my Code 100 stock to the club, the double slips were still priced at £5.95! Yeah, I used to buy lots of bits and pieces in the 80s, that became the 90s and 00s for 'that layout', and then the barn came along and so did the attraction of Code 75.

 

I have been to see the 'Hills of the North' in the past but missed the track building bits. I'll go back there and re-read. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Edited November 5, 2023 by Philou
Mis-remembered the prices paid - found some more with their tickets today.

[Philou]

It all came to a sticky end.

 

I was into the PVA today and all Ledbury and the approach from the viaducts are covered with stuck-down underlay - yay. I've also started to lay out the track through Pontrilas station and the throat, taking care to align everything (mainly by eye). I've also employed a bit of point-stressing just to achieve a slight curve and it seems to work - the difference just a degree makes.

 

Tomorrow I shall be cutting the underlay to shape - I will need to get more PVA before getting stuck-in.

 

No picture today as all that would have been seen are segments of underlay with lots of mapping pins holding the bits down.

 

I'll post some up tomorrow showing the (hopefully) dry underlay and the trackwork in place at Pontrilas. I think it's looking good.

 

More tomorrow,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Philou]

A late start due to hunting out big bottles of PVA - none to be had locally. The 'other' M. le Builders' Merchant had some 1L bottles of the stuff (good named brand) but at €17 a bottle, I had to decline as I can order it in 5L quantities via Amazon for the same price. It won't matter to me whether it's branded or not as it's to slosh about under and over the underlay and then to glue the polystyrene together and following that, the decor.

 

I did set out the track and pointwork at Pontrilas (I did say lay yesterday, but this is a dry run only) and I was feeling rather proud with myself ...... well, you know that saying ................. I had to take most of it back up as I'd overlooked one thing - three really - the catchpoints. Fortunately there were none as part of the running lines over in the Ledbury area. There are two but they form part of a point and I shall make them to suit (good grief, doing some modelling!).

 

Got the CPs out of my stockpile and inserted them where they should have been and much faffing about later, the track was back in place - now I'm proud of what I've done. Tomorrow I shall do some measurements BEFORE lifting so that I'll know where the track should go once the underlay is stuck in place. Using my marks I can also cut the missing underlay to size.

 

I also have some photos including the now glued underlay at Ledbury:

 

 

^ There you have it. The whole of the Ledbury station and yard is now covered in underlay. I left the pins just for show - they were out shortly after to be recycled at Pontrilas. The underlay towards the viaducts (to the right and behind the camera) has also been glued.

 

 

^ This is mainly the goods yard with the main lines to the right. The lengths laid are incomplete as I didn't want to cut odd lengths just yet, that will come later when done for real. From the left we have two storage sidings though there may well have been a crane near-to the end of the right hand one of the two. In the centre of the fan is the goods shed siding proper (the curve looks tight but it's not - camera distortion). The pins, yellow and white (as opposed to the white and yellow ones), mark the end of the goods shed siding with the goods shed set back some 200mm back from the end. Given the position of the crane, it is possible it was used to service these two last sidings.

 

Further to the right we have the bay siding, this being marked by the white and yellow pins. To its immediate left was the release road to the bay that was extended as a spur to serve a cattle dock. The length of the spur seemed to have served no more than about 2 cattle wagons and terminated at the same point as the bay.

 

At the extreme right are the main lines - I didn't lay any track here as there's no pointwork involved - so no point really ;).

 

 

^ Next we have a close-up of the pointwork in the throat leading to the mainlines with an up and down goods loop to each side curving uphill towards Hereford. The single slip will be replaced by a double slip in due course when I can source one. The gaps are where short sections of rail need to be cut to size to maintain 60mm centres (the 10'). The branch swings off to the left at about midway. To the extreme right is the chemical works siding. I've left this out for the time being as at this stage, I want to deal with the pointwork in the throat.

 

 

^ Finally, a view looking downhill from the Hereford approach with the branch on the far right. I am very happy in the way the trackwork is evolving. Here and Ledbury will be the two areas where there's little room for error and it does seem it's looking good even at this dry run stage.

 

So what's next? As mentioned above, tomorrow will be taking some measurements just as checks for when I come to do it for real. I will also mark out where the underlay is to go in the station area. Whilst I'm marking, I shall also mark the edges of the underlay ready for chamfering. Then it'll be lifting all the track (again!) together with the underlay, trimming and tidying the underlay and glueing it in place - Wednesday I think, for that.

 

Cheers everyone and more tomorrow,

 

Philip

 

[Graham T]

Beginning to look rather impressive now Philip!

[JeffP]

PVA?

Tried to buy it back in 2002, no-one knew what I was talking about.

I ended up bringing four 5l plastic containers from Screwfix, in one of two box trailer loads that went to the house.

Still got one, and I regularly take Wickes water resistant wood glue, 500ml.

I'm constantly surprised yo find out that I either can't get certain stuff in France, or the price is exorbitant.

And yet, when I first went into a French DIY shed, I was delighted to find a genuine Dremel chuck for a decent price, and metre lengths of brass in various diameters for very modest sums.

Even now, I look at the prices of the bits needed to make a double electrical socket, and shudder.🤩

[Philou]

@JeffP Unfortunately over here they seem to go by some names that bear little or no resemblance to what we would name things in the UK.

PVA = colle blanche (expensive) though there is some that is reasonable available in Office Depot type stores and goes under the name of Cléopâtre - safe for kids.

Vinyl paint = terrible quality and horribly expensive. Can't beat Dulux Trade Vinyl, goes under the name of Dulux Valentine over here - nowhere near as good. I go to Conforama for paint as it's the same stuff as B&Q (but more expensive natch).

Brass = cuivre jaune (yellow copper).

I've ordered my 5L of Evo-Stik PVA via Amazon (UK supplier) and it'll be here next week. In the end I also ordered from the UK Amazon site a hot-knife for the polystyrene (I have a UK adapter plug already to go) and an oil-stone to resharpen my Stanley blades (again ordered by the 100s from the UK). The green underlay dulls the blade very quickly and so I'll resharpen them ready for cutting card and plasticard later.

 

Today, chums and chumesses, I couldn't get my act together this afternoon as I felt down. I think it was because I had set all the pointwork up and then had to put it all away again before lunch. Anyway, I perked up later and set about cutting the green stuff to size which I did. As I still had some PVA mix to hand I then stuck the underlay down - the whole of the station and yard is now in green. As I did a slight mis-cut it'll mean a small sliver of underlay to be cut and then stuck - I could probably get away with it and make it disappear under some ballast ;) .

 

No picture today - be the same as the Ledbury one of underlay with lots of mapping pins!

 

Tomorrow is Mrs Philou's birthday so I'll be around the house more and I doubt that I'll get much done in the barn. If I can so do, I shall stick the underlay in the throat area up to the branch line. I shall let that go off and turn my attention to Dymented, by which time my glue should have arrived - yay!

 

Cheers everyone (possibly no update tomorrow),

 

Philip

[Re6/6]

Happy Birthday Mrs Philou!😃

[Barclay]

12 hours ago, Philou said:

Tomorrow is Mrs Philou's birthday so I'll be around the house more and I doubt that I'll get much done in the barn.

 

Philip

Discretion is the better part of valour - do too much in the barn today and you'll be living in it !

[Philou]

8 hours ago, Barclay said:

and you'll be living in it !

 

.......... and she thinks it's possible that will happen once I get into the scenery and track laying. I have said to her a few times 'Don't worry dear, I'll be back at meal times ................. ' She did also think I was being serious when I said I'd get a camp bed in there eventually :)) .

 

Update tomorrow as tonight is birthday night!

 

Cheers everyone,

 

Philip

 

 

[5BarVT]

36 minutes ago, Philou said:

I have said to her a few times 'Don't worry dear, I'll be back at meal times ................. '

I see you like living dangerously.

:-)

Paul.

[Philou]

Hello chums and chumesses,

 

Update as promised. Yesterday and today were rather frustrating - though productive but not necessarily in a good way.

 

Notwithstanding birthdays, I started to set out the trackwork at Dymented and it didn't want to go where I thought it should. Rather than fight it I had the bright idea that I should perhaps not use pointwork that I had already unpacked, but make sure that I account for all the trackwork that I need.

 

I therefore unpacked everything that I had in stock and assembled the pointwork in the areas where needed. Frustratingly (I said frustrating day) I found that I am a complete double junction and 2 x Ys short of what I thought I had. There is a double slip to be found, but that's because I reflected on what would happen if I left a single slip in place. I also found that I have about 10 points (wrong handed or wrong radii) too many that I shall now not use - I know how that happened as they were points bought as a Christmas gift. I wonder if my favourite train emporium might consider a swap.

 

I'm going to have to recheck the quantities just in case I've made error somewhere.

 

The day did end on a high as we celebrated Mrs Philou's birthday at a nice restaurant in the evening.

 

Today also fell in the frustrating category as M. le Maire thought that I might need some of my wood stockpile bringing closer to home so that I have a few week's worth at hand for the burner. Good idea. It was piscillating down this morning and I thought he might have called the whole thing off. Wrong! Wood was collected and restocked outside the barn and then off we went in the rain to cut a tree that was leaning rather dangerously over the highway - in the end we cut three down! 

 

It wasn't all lost as I got into the barn and started to set out Dymented again and it all fell into place - I even managed to move the 3-way point away from the station running line and into the siding fan. I did use up an additional point but I did have some spare! I have now something that should be more prototypical. I also started to mark ready to cut the underlay - and then - frustration 2!

 

Whilst I was marking, the sun meekly poked its nose out and so off I went and cut all the stocked wood - so productive but not in the way I expected.

 

I do have some pictures:

 

 

^ Here is Pontrilas with all the underlay in place. The indent about mid picture is the cattle dock and the goods shed.

 

 

^ Here we go. Dymented now set out. In the foreground are the sidings to the unnamed/unspecified industry on the left and to its right the goods shed. Their lengths are denoted by the red mapping pins. Beyond again to the right is the double track through the station.

 

 

^  This is a closer look at the fan of sidings. To the left is the headshunt and lead back to the goods shed and industrial sidings. To the right are the sidings that I shall use for the storage of the branchline stock and to the far right is the branchline back up to Ledbury. You may note also the new position of the 3-way point. I did also remember to put in a catch-point - it's wrong-handed but a correct one will be ordered with the rest of the missing pointwork. .Question: Do I need to have one at the bottom of the branchline slope to protect the station from runaways? I would have thought so.

 

 

^ This is just a different view of the sidings with the through lines, goods and industry sidings in the background.

 

 

^ Here we have a view of the end of the double station through lines leading to the branchline back up to Pontrilas and a head shunt to the right - I might have a coal merchant there just for visual interest.

 

There you have it. I'm quite pleased as it all seems to be coming together (as a dry run).

 

Cheers everyone,

 

More tomorrow,

 

Philip

[Flying Fox 34F]

Philip,

 

Not aware of any single  track railways in Britain having Trap Points in the running line?  As any train on the Single line would need a Token, Staff or Ticket for permission to be on the Single Line, if there was a run away, it would most likely pass through an empty road through the station.

Search the Armagh disaster to see what happened with a run away on a Single Line worked to the Time Interval system.

Catch points were provided on double track and multiple track lines on the running lines heading up a gradient.  If a runaway occurred, the errant vehicles would be derailed by the catch points as they travelled wrong direction down the hill.  They were provided to prevent the runaway striking a following train.

 

Paul

[Philou]

@Flying Fox 34F Thanks for the information - I'm glad I asked the question as I probably would have put one for the avoidance of doubt. I was basing this on a plan of Ledbury North Box where there were two catch points on a downhill section to catch (presumably) runaways BUT this was double track and rightly with your thinking there would have probably more than one train in steam as opposed to a single line branch. One catch point not required then.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[lezz01]

Catch points were in a place where goods lines met passenger lines to prevent runaways fouling the passenger running lines. There would be one at the entrance to a goods yard unless there was a headshunt or a loop but there would be one at the end of the loop if there was no headshunt. I don't know about using them on a gradient but I think there would be a headshunt if there was a junction. After a certain time branches of single track lines had the lines doubled at the junction. See Dudbridge Junction on the Nailsworth branch, it was built as a single line in 1880 as the branch has an additional branch to Strood but was doubled after a new rule brought in by the authorities after an accident somewhere. I don't know where and I don't know when the rule came into force but single lines with a junction had to be doubled at the junction and then revert to a single line as a result.

Regards Lez.      

[Philou]

Hello, chaps and chapesses,

 

I was hoping to have a photo or two today but it wasn't to be. I have cut all the underlay in the area of Dymented and as Mrs Philou was going into town this afternoon I asked if she would bring me back some PVA so I could stick it down and show you. The only glue she could find was a branded one at €10.00 for 250g (not mL). Well at that price it's going back, toot de sweet! I shall wait until Thursday when my 5L of Evo-stik PVA arrives from the UK via Amazon for the princely sum of £20.00 and get cracking then.

 

What I did do was relay all the pointwork for the whole layout in its approximate position to determine what went where and what didn't I have. By the substitution of some of the surplus stock and changing some points for large radius ones and vicky verker, I managed to boil it down to one double slip and one long crossing short, plus four catch points that I had not considered originally - so not too bad. I have a couple of single slips and a few assorted points surplus.

 

Whilst I'm waiting for the PVA to arrive, I shall go around all the underlay checking the widths and then chamfering the edges to form the ballast shoulders. If time permits, I may well start cutting up some polystyrene to make a start on the scenery -  =:O - rough cut at this stage as the hot knife should be here at the same time as the PVA.

 

More tomorrow!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[JeffP]

Mrs JeffP says is there an "Action" store near you?

She gets loads of flower arranging stuff there, including PVA, and the prices are low.

Lots of what they sell carries labels in Dutch and English.

[Philou]

@JeffP There is an Action, but it's not in our local town - it's about 22 miles away and it does mean grouping our journeys to save a bit on diesel. We'll be going there Tuesday anyway so I can have a look. I want to buy oodles of their cheap acrylic paints that come in 1L bottles so I can slosh it around as a base for the scenery.

 

Today I'm a bit of a lost dog. I did have some PVA left over and I thought I'd make a start and just as I was about to stick the second piece down I remembered that if I did that, then I wouldn't be able to unscrew the ply to make a few mods and get access to the scenery further behind - so that was that.

 

What I did achieve was to confirm that very long wheel-based stock (Class 8xx) will NOT pass each other on 45mm centred track at 1000mm radius. It will have to be 50mm - no problem. Right, off to do more chamfering.

 

Speak later,

 

Philip

Edited November 11, 2023 by Philou
Missing word!

[Philou]

Hello chums and chumesses,

 

In the end I didn't do any chamfering as the weather was dry (but threatening to rain at any moment), I decided to do the infills at the back of Dymented station that came about when I re-aligned the main line on the upper level. You may well ask 'why bother'. It's simply that now I can construct my retaining walls and station platform on terra firma - another little job done. No picture as there's not a lot to see.

 

We'll see what tomorrow brings.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Oh my gosh! It started snowing inside the railway room! .......... Eh?

 

Rashly, I started to cut some polystyrene for the decor in the area of Dymented as I need to do that area before I can consider glueing the underlay down. As I was impatient to start without the hot knife, I used my Japanese saw which was quite efficient, but not efficient enough to stop the balls from appearing over the floor.

 

I do have a photo though:

 

 

^ I hope the hot knife and the wand will be more efficient as it took me the best part of the afternoon to cut this lot and I've consumed a sheet and half in just creating this pile. I have twigged that I can reduce the amount of polystyrene used by just creating a facade and making it hollow inside. This is not the finished product as it is all to be shaped - I shall definitely wait for the hot knife to arrive!

 

The landform will rise gradually for a short distance and a cutting will be formed for the first 300mm or so. Thereafter, the polystyrene will remain near-vertical as I shall make a rock cutting using oak bark stuck to the surface suitably coloured to represent Raglan stone - a reddish rock which is to be found not far from Ledbury - this is my Rule 1 zone! Nearer the top, the 'styrene will be shaped to form a more rounded landform. When I have finished faffing about, then it'll all be stuck together with PVA. I shall probably use 'no screws, no nails' type of product to then stick the bark to the polystyrene.

 

 

^ This is the sort of effect I'm aiming for (without fir trees!). Oak bark washed over with thin plaster mix followed by white vinyl and then coloured firstly with a thin pinkish wash and then hues of grey worked in over the whole surface. Raglan stone is a much deeper red-brown. Trouble is with me, I can do something that looks (IMHO) reasonably good, but do it a second time and it looks pants!

 

I needed to get my 5mm ply outside in order to cut some bridge, wing and retaining walls but it wasn't to be due to the rain. These I intend to screw to the sides of the branchline base (not forgetting to batter the wing and retaining walls. The bridge abutments will remain vertical. Once I have these items in place I can then mark out the underside of the mainline plywood base cut it out and then construct a nice pseudo-metal one in card in its place. I found one that I made about 8 years ago in card and even though the span is 600mm long it's surprisingly sturdy despite the base being only 7mm thick in composite card layers. The span here will be no more than 230mm.

 

I'll was quite pleased with it as it was my first ever home-made card construction. I'll post a photo of it tomorrow for a critique of it as there's always room for improvement - and I can incorporate your comments in the construction of the future bridges on Dymented.

 

While I think of it, can anyone point me to a site or thread here, that will show various retaining walls. I did type in ' UK railway retaining walls' and variations of but the images were surprisingly very few - I'd preferably like ones that show reinforcing pillars (or abutments) and ones that have recessed arches - just to have a feel of what they should be like - rather than what I think they should be like.

 

After taking the photo, I tackled the part in-between the branchline and the mainline. This was also cut short due to not having the 5mm ply at hand :( .

 

Definitely more tomorrow!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[JeffP]

Have you tried YouTube?

There was/is a guy on there doing an imaginary urban line going into countryside.

His videos were informative and interesting.

[Graham T]

Ref the retaining walls, try taking a look at Scalescenes and Scale Model Scenery.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Graham T

[Philou]

@JeffP No, I never even gave YouTube a thought. I was thinking more of a technical type of site - perhaps a rule of thumb of the interval between buttresses when used, size of recessed arches viz. width:height ratios, that sort of thing.

 

But thanks for the heads up - I'll have a look on YouTube.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

Edit: @Graham T You message arrived as I was typing. I had seen the Scalescene ones, but not Scale Models. I'll head over there too and have a look. Cheers.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Philou