Cardiff-Bristol- Portsmouth

[Hal Nail]

I got on a Cardiff service at Romsey last month, and I got a seat.

 

Prototype for everything.

[Gwiwer]

On 12/09/2020 at 22:11, jools1959 said:

I forgot Cosham and to be honest, it’s over 15 years ago and I’m getting old 

There are many who say Cosham is best forgotten

 

Crawling through to comply with what was then, iirc, a 20mph limit around the curve to Portcreek (now 30mph I believe) it would have made little difference time-wise to have served the station. 
 

It was always something of a treat to rattle through Cosham on a Brighton train because the line limit to Farlington was 50mph and boy did the drivers open up as they came off that and through the station. 
 

A 33 in full flight powering up through Cosham at 55-60mph caused quite a stir among those waiting at the crossing who might have been more accustomed to the whining and thumping of a “Hampshire” as it crept away from the platform. 

[Richard_A]

Looking through images of this service in the 60's and early 70's, I see that the make up is mainly mk1 coaches with a Gresley buffet sometimes, how likely is it that gwr or Sr stock might be used as well? 

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, rka said:

Looking through images of this service in the 60's and early 70's, I see that the make up is mainly mk1 coaches with a Gresley buffet sometimes, how likely is it that gwr or Sr stock might be used as well? 

Gresley buffet W9135E was allocated to Cardiff Canton for a number of years and was a regular visitor to Portsmouth. 
 

Other rakes had Mk1 RMB miniature buffet cars. 
 

Apart from Sundays when the SR provided one set (which for some years was booked for a pair of 4TC units) the Portsmouth - Cardiff stock was WR responsibility. Mk1 was the norm. On rare occasions a late-surviving company van might have appeared but not passenger-carrying stock. 

[Richard_A]

1 minute ago, Gwiwer said:

Gresley buffet W9135E was allocated to Cardiff Canton for a number of years and was a regular visitor to Portsmouth. 
 

Other rakes had Mk1 RMB miniature buffet cars. 
 

Apart from Sundays when the SR provided one set (which for some years was booked for a pair of 4TC units) the Portsmouth - Cardiff stock was WR responsibility. Mk1 was the norm. On rare occasions a late-surviving company van might have appeared but not passenger-carrying stock. 

Thank you very much, pretty much as I figured. 

[2E Sub Shed]

In connection with workings in Wales of the class 33's I recalled a picture of a Class 33 at Haverfordwest.

 

I think I have found it - Link to copyright photo

 

It shows a Class 33 working, according to the caption a Milford Haven - Swansea service in Sept 1983, Is this a fill-in turn, or an extension of the Portsmouth service ? 

[Gwiwer]

By 1983 class 33 had spread its wings significantly as their former parcels and freight work in the SR had almost vanished meaning many were otherwise spare. They replaced class 25 on the Cardiff - Crewe workings and DMUs on some West Wales turns. 
 

All the locos remained based at Eastleigh and worked extended duty cycles over several days with overnight attention at Cardiff Canton 

 

The Crewe workings were extended to Manchester or Holyhead which took the class into more new territory. The stock was all based at Cardiff so the same carriages might appear at both Milford Haven and Manchester on the same day but were not at that time advertised as a through service. Likewise the loco and coaches which arrived at Cardiff from Portsmouth might later head west or north but it wasn’t a through service. 
 

This lasted for several years until the class 155 Super Sprinters arrived. Cromptons were “bashed” very extensively by followers. One of the favourite workings was the Sunday afternoon Manchester - Cardiff trip booked for 2x33 hauling 5 coaches. That was a balancing turn to get the locos back home but was often very well filled with haulage fans. 
 

Today Milford Haven - Manchester is a through service but largely for operational convenience rather than any commercial need.  Cardiff - Holyhead is one of very few routes with loco-and-coaches workings left in the UK. 

[DY444]

On 07/02/2022 at 17:57, Gwiwer said:

89 was used between Portsmouth Harbour and Bristol Temple Meads. Its use after reversal / loco-change there depended very much upon who was driving. 
 

SR crews signed the road to Bristol but not beyond. Bristol-based WR crews were type-trained on SR stock and all those who needed to know were trained that the headcode was a front-of-train marker and double red blanks the rear. Both were accepted in lieu of lamps.  The headcode therefore had to be displayed. 
 

Cardiff-based crews were not necessarily familiar with SR operating practice but did sign the traction. IIRC a red tail lamp had to be fitted over that section. The headcode was often set to double white blank though 89 and sometimes 33 (for the locomotive class) were seen. Bristol-based crews working those trains to Cardiff probably adopted the practice used by their Cardiff colleagues.   
 

99 incidentally was used for Brighton - Bristol / Cardiff trains.

 

 

33s: agreed. 

DEMUs: no idea.

TCs: very doubtful imo as I'm 99.9% certain that no non-SR depots ever signed these (ignoring the Mission Impossible filming) and I'm almost certain that all incursions of TCs onto the WR had SR crews.  Even if the TCs were being hauled the air brake would have been triple valve not distributor and aiui familiarity with that on the WR was not widespread.

[br2975]

On 07/05/2016 at 21:48, jonny777 said:

Didn't the 123 units work CF-PO trains for a short time around 1976 after being displaced from RG, or is that just an urban myth?

The Cl.123 'Inter City' sets did return to Canton, circa 1976, but I don't recall them working the Severn - Solent axis.

.

They did work Cardiff - Gloucester - Cheltenham, and apparently ventured along the North & West.

.

However, the sets were gradually stored, at canton (Ninian Park), Barry Docks and Radyr Yard, before  transfer to Botanic Gardens. 

[br2975]

Some mid-80s views of Southern DEMU sets at Cardiff Central on Pompey workings, courtesy of Jesse Lomas.

[KingEdwardII]

On 08/02/2022 at 07:57, Hal Nail said:

I got on a Cardiff service at Romsey last month, and I got a seat.

That makes a pleasant change from pre-Covid times when I once stood all the way from Romsey to Bath on one service.

 

However, things have much improved in that many services are now 5-coach rather than the 3-coach ones that used to run on this route, thanks I think to redeployment of units displaced by electrification on the main line out of Paddington.

 

`Yours, Mike.

[Rivercider]

16 hours ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

In connection with workings in Wales of the class 33's I recalled a picture of a Class 33 at Haverfordwest.

 

I think I have found it - Link to copyright photo

 

It shows a Class 33 working, according to the caption a Milford Haven - Swansea service in Sept 1983, Is this a fill-in turn, or an extension of the Portsmouth service ? 

Class 33s took over diagrams in West Wales in May 1982, the Landore allocated fleet of boiler fitted class 37s that had worked these services was then split up, some being allocated away. There were one or two Portsmouth Harbour to Swansea through services once the 33s got that far west, and in 1985 there was an 07.40 morning service from Milford Haven to Bristol Temple Meads,

 

cheers 

[pc3163]

Were any diesel loco pulled services ever in Regional Railways livery on this service?

[Rivercider]

On 23/02/2022 at 15:08, pc3163 said:

Were any diesel loco pulled services ever in Regional Railways livery on this service?

I am not sure if any Regional Railways loco and coaches sets worked into Portsmouth Harbour,

but they were certainly seen on the Weymouth and Bristol/Cardiff route, especially during the summer. Look on Flickr for 37421 for example,

 

cheers

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, Rivercider said:

I am not sure if any Regional Railways loco and coaches sets worked into Portsmouth Harbour,

Likewise but I do recall reports of a RR-liveried 31 making it to the Harbour once.  

[John M Upton]

The last bit of the descendent of the old Brighton to Cardiff train, the GWR twice a day service (08:59 and 16:59 departures off Brighton) are being officially binned with the timetable change in May, orders of the DfT supposedly.

 

Meanwhile, Cosham - Unfond memories of that place, got knocked unconscious by a passing nutter on the platform one sunny Sunday afternoon once.

[Gwiwer]

3 hours ago, John M Upton said:

The last bit of the descendent of the old Brighton to Cardiff train, the GWR twice a day service (08:59 and 16:59 departures off Brighton) are being officially binned with the timetable change in May, orders of the DfT supposedly.

Very costly to run and as a privatised TOC GWR would have provided the service as an ORCATS-raiding exercise more than for any commercial need.  It was always supposed to be a 158 but was usually a 150 which was altogether unsuitable for a trip of several hours between Brighton and its ultimate destination of Great Malvern for the past many years.  

 

A pulling-in of horns no doubt "encouraged" by the DfT in the interests of cost-savings will see off these and many other oddball survivors from the BR era.  They just have to be careful to avoid falling foul of closure legislation through oversight.  That gave rise to the oddball Clapham High Street - Kensington Olympia trip which avoided the need to formally close a short stretch of track once used by the Brighton - Manchester trains.  

 

Waterloo - Bristol trains have already permanently ceased on SWR though no track is unserved; some Yeovil via Frome trips remain however which retains route knowledge and avoids closing the Yeovil curve.  

 

Our railways remain a curious beast with surprises around many corners.  I wonder, for example, why there are still passenger services over the Landore Loop and Swansea District Lines if not to avoid statutory closures.  

Edited February 26, 2022 by Gwiwer

[phil-b259]

23 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Our railways remain a curious beast with surprises around many corners.  I wonder, for example, why there are still passenger services over the Landore Loop and Swansea District Lines if not to avoid statutory closures.  

 

The same reason as you gave for SWR going via Frome - diversionary route knowledge!