Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[boxbrownie]

12 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

Unless all charging has to be done at public chargers. Many people, including myself, can't charge at home or work.  That's why speed of charging is as vital as range. 

But you wouldn’t have one regardless as your other half cannot drive an automatic, isn’t that correct?

[number6]

On 24/04/2021 at 17:50, AngusDe said:

I don't know if this has been covered recently, but I am now in Motability territory and was thinking of taking the EV plunge via the scheme. 

All I can offer is I was pleased to see you could get EVs on the scheme but they all required contributions - when compared to other vehicles - although the saving in fuel costs could negate some of that. Seemed a bit unfair but maybe someone else could point out why they’d cost more? Is it just the purchase price?
 

Depending on your circumstances have you tried chargers and the ease of using them? is there anything that would disadvantage or inconvenience you in that? Something to consider... 

 

do report back on what you choose. 

[Ian Morgan]

Quote

Unless all charging has to be done at public chargers. Many people, including myself, can't charge at home or work.  That's why speed of charging is as vital as range.

 

True, not all of us will be able to charge from home or at work, but that does not mean all EV drivers will have to use public chargers, whereas all IC drivers do have to use petrol stations.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Ian Morgan

[Nick C]

The whole charger situation is very much "chicken and egg" - people are worried about range as they worry about finding a free, working charger - but of course as EVs become more common, so will chargers, and so the risk of not finding one will decrease. 

 

I think for most people, a reliable 200 mile range, and 80% in 30m topup, would be more than enough, assuming chargers were prolific - you're recommended to take a break every two hours anyway, so that's 100-140 miles depending on average speed. Plus how many people regularly do >200 mile journeys? I know there are some (as we've seen in this thread), but for most it's probably only once a year to go on holiday - perhaps we'll see the nature of those journey's change to suit a different travelling pattern?

[Reorte]

18 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

But you wouldn’t have one regardless as your other half cannot drive an automatic, isn’t that correct?

 

Surely from the point of view of what you can drive an electric car is an automatic? (sure, technically it isn't because it doesn't have changing gears rather than changing them automatically, but from the driving point of view that difference is academic)

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

 

Surely from the point of view of what you can drive an electric car is an automatic? (sure, technically it isn't because it doesn't have changing gears rather than changing them automatically, but from the driving point of view that difference is academic)

 

Indeed EV's are not "automatics'.

There is no gearbox, manual or automatic.

It would also be wrong to say they're "just like automatics", just because you don't need to change gears, because the powertrain doesn't behave or feel the same.

 

p.s. Having said that, there is one, non-mainstream EV that has 2 gear modes (High & Low). A rare example and I can't remember what car it is. 

 

 

.

 

 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

p.s. Having said that, there is one, non-mainstream EV that has 2 gear modes (High & Low). A rare example and I can't remember what car it is. 

 

I think the Tesla Roadster does as do some other EVs with super high top speeds.

Normal ones can go above the legal limit with just the one ratio.

[Jol Wilkinson]

3 hours ago, Nick C said:

The whole charger situation is very much "chicken and egg" - people are worried about range as they worry about finding a free, working charger - but of course as EVs become more common, so will chargers, and so the risk of not finding one will decrease. 

 

I think for most people, a reliable 200 mile range, and 80% in 30m topup, would be more than enough, assuming chargers were prolific - you're recommended to take a break every two hours anyway, so that's 100-140 miles depending on average speed. Plus how many people regularly do >200 mile journeys? I know there are some (as we've seen in this thread), but for most it's probably only once a year to go on holiday - perhaps we'll see the nature of those journey's change to suit a different travelling pattern?

Provided the number of charge points increase faster than  the number of EVs on the road, only then will the likelihood of not finding one in use will decrease.

 

A friend and his wife called round this morning in their new Zoe. He has also bought a petrol Kaptur, so that they can make their longer journeys to family and on holiday without any range/recharge issues. Whilst committed to making the planet "greener" he doesn't yet think that charging time/infrastructure and availability will meet his needs for several years.

[Ron Ron Ron]

The S. Korean motoring press have been getting their hands on actual production examples of the Hyundai Ionic 5.

 

The European and UK motoring press have now been given a chance to drive and review pre-production examples.

Several videos have been posted on YouTube already and magazine reports are being published.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited April 27, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

 

Surely from the point of view of what you can drive an electric car is an automatic? (sure, technically it isn't because it doesn't have changing gears rather than changing them automatically, but from the driving point of view that difference is academic)

It is just that many times before “admiles” has stated his partner/other half cannot drive an automatic and therefore an EV being effectively an automatic is impossible as a choice.

[Reorte]

36 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Indeed EV's are not "automatics'.

There is no gearbox, manual or automatic.

It would also be wrong to say they're "just like automatics", just because you don't need to change gears, because the powertrain doesn't behave or feel the same.

 

p.s. Having said that, there is one, non-mainstream EV that has 2 gear modes (High & Low). A rare example and I can't remember what car it is.

But as far as the necessary driving skills are concerned (and licence requirements - it's possible to have an automatic-only licence) does it really make any difference? The ability to drive an automatic but not a manual shouldn't, AFAICT, provide any practical barrier (not sure about the legal ones) to driving an EV.

[Reorte]

6 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

It is just that many times before “admiles” has stated his partner/other half cannot drive an automatic and therefore an EV being effectively an automatic is impossible as a choice.

Well it depends on why the "can't" comes in, although I'm not aware of any considerations that mean someone can drive a manual but not an automatic (as opposed to the other way around). If you've never driven an automatic before (I've not for example) I'd imagine it takes a little getting used to but nowhere near as much as learning to drive in the first place did.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Reorte
typo

[johnlambert]

In my experience there are people who learned to drive in manual cars because that's what's most prevalent.  They aren't keen drivers but need to drive because it's more convenient than public transport.  They don't really know how cars work but they "know" that you change from first to second gear at 10mph, 2nd to 3rd at 20, 3rd to 4th at 30 and so on (or something like that).  When faced with cars without a gear lever and clutch pedal they panic because "this is not driving as they know it".  The situation is probably worse with ICE cars because you can still hear gears changing but it's not necessarily happening when they expect it; EVs might be better because there isn't the same engine noise but you're still fighting the attitude of, "that which is unfamiliar is to be feared".

 

I hope I've got this right but I think it's not so much a case of "can't" drive an automatic, as it is that they don't want to and the feeling is so strong, the psychological barriers are so great that they won't .  Furthermore, in their mind anything with two pedals and no gear lever is an automatic therefore they want nothing to do with it.

[boxbrownie]

1 minute ago, Reorte said:

But as far as the necessary driving skills are concerned (and licence requirements - it's possible to have an automatic-only licence) does it really make any difference? The ability to drive an automatic but not a manual shouldn't, AFAICT, provide any practical barrier (not sure about the legal ones) to driving an EV.

No it doesn’t make a difference in practice, and if a test is taken in an EV it is passed as an automatic licence.

[Reorte]

1 minute ago, boxbrownie said:

No it doesn’t make a difference in practice, and if a test is taken in an EV it is passed as an automatic licence.

Ah, good to know about the test. It makes sense that that's the case but I wasn't sure if it actually was.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Reorte

[Joseph_Pestell]

Surely, anyone who can drive a manual can drive an automatic.

 

It does take a bit of getting used to (especially at an advanced age) but not that difficult.

[boxbrownie]

1 minute ago, Reorte said:

Ah, good to know about the test. It makes sense that that's the case but I wasn't sure if it actually was.

This is what I was told by an old mate who is an instructor, we were chatting about him getting an EV to teach with but it will limit him to “auto” drivers and thus reduce his customer base, he decided to keep on with manual for now and he will probably have retired by the time EVs are the only vehicles available to newly passed drivers.

[298]

19 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

This is what I was told by an old mate who is an instructor, we were chatting about him getting an EV to teach with but it will limit him to “auto” drivers and thus reduce his customer base, he decided to keep on with manual for now and he will probably have retired by the time EVs are the only vehicles available to newly passed drivers.

 

I've always thought it strange that we don't teach people initially in a automatic until they get the hang of appropriate speed and positioning (the things that stop you crashing into other people), and then get onto the misogynistic mastery of Man Vs machine that Japan and the US got over years ago. It's also go towards reducing the "it wasn't me, it was the car" pedal confusion accidents and give confidence to those that can't drive an automatic....

[Guest]

1 minute ago, 298 said:

 

I've always thought it strange that we don't teach people initially in a automatic

Should start on a bicycle tbh.

[Reorte]

25 minutes ago, 30801 said:

Should start on a bicycle tbh.

Is Cycling Proficiency still a thing? (not that it was ever compulsory)

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Is Cycling Proficiency still a thing? (not that it was ever compulsory)

 

It's called Bikeability now.

[Vistisen]

On 25/04/2021 at 00:22, Ian J. said:

I still feel that until we have 500+ mile range (with 'normal' driving and toys usage) and a recharge from near flat to a true 80% level within half an hour, then batteries just haven't made it to reasonable single car use for both shorter and longer journeys. I certainly feel that I can't afford to have two vehicles as a single person.

I am waiting for my hybrid to arrive. I did look at going fully electric. But I do regular day trips to the capitol which is 220 miles in each direction. My major problem is when I get there, I typically have meetings several different places in town, So I cannot just leave the car to recharge for longer periods of time. The other issue is that motorway speed limits here 85 mph. Electric cars might be getting up to a range of 400mph plus, but that is at 50 mph not 85mph. Driving at 50 mph increases my working day by over 3 hours!

But when not doing these day trips I normally use the car to drive between 15 to 25 several times a day. So a hybrid will make sense for these trips as it has a range of about 25 miles ‘pure’ electricity.

Before Corona I also did a twice yearly dash to the UK on mainly unrestricted autobahns where the range/time difference is even more extreme. My last trip home was done the day that lockdown started in Germany. There was no traffic on the roads, and I had to reach the border to Denmark before it too was closed. I did 520 miles in less than 8 hours and an average speed of just under 70mph. No electric car will ever do that in my lifetime!

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, 30801 said:

Should start on a bicycle tbh.

I did.....

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

I did 520 miles in less than 8 hours and an average speed of just under 70mph. No electric car will ever do that in my lifetime!

 

That's quite a pessimistic outlook on your lifetime...

[Reorte]

Have to say when it comes to pushing the ranges I think there's quite a large element of what "needs" to be done shaping itself to fit whatever's currently possible; if it were suddenly possible to commute to Australia and back every day there would be lots of people and businesses who suddenly need to. Need always fits what's available and demands more; the question is whether or not society really benefits from it (clearly it does to some degree, and that's been the case since horses were domesticated, but I believe it to be a game of diminishing returns on the benefit side).