Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[APOLLO]

19 hours ago, TheQ said:

They seem to be putting dedicated charging areas in on motorway service stations.. What they need to do is put a charging point on every single parking space at a service station.

 

If every single car park space (or even say half of them) of them had charging points, the total sum of the electricity supply for that car park would be huge indeed (depending of course on car park size). Factor in proximity of such car parks in (thinking supermarkets, where most existing ICE motorists fill up) in towns / cities, then the existing supply infrastructure (HV cables, sub stations, feeders to sub stations and on up the chain to power stations, a mega investment needs to be made just for EV's. In todays (and tomorrows, next years, next decade etc) power hungry / supply famine world I think such things are increasingly pie in the sky.

 

We will be rationed and priced according to mileage soon, petrol, diesel AND EV.

 

The days of cheap(ish) motoring (EV's included) has been and gone.

 

Buy a bike (a pedal one) !!!!

 

Brit15

 

 

[boxbrownie]

58 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Yep in my past life I was a field service engineer, carrying equipment which could not be left for more than a few minutes.. Sometimes with a briefcase of files handcuffed to my wrist .. a 409 mile drive to the furthest place...

Had the car been electric in the winter, using heater wipers and lights. A long stop with me just sat in the car would have had to happen for charging, and up there the hotel parking was on the road so place for charging..

Then an EV wouldn’t have been your choice.

 

When I was working, travelling all over Europe with over a hundred thousand pounds worth of camera/video equipment in the vehicle it wouldn’t have been mine either.

[Hobby]

See we're back into defensive mode again, why can't people (on both sides) simply accept that everyone has different needs and leave it at that instead of defending their choice and criticising the other.

 

Can we get back to the basics of the thread heading, please...

[Mike 84C]

I like to pull a caravan and we often go to the Far North of Scotland or Norfolk maybe the Welsh borders . Can't see any EV making it from Lincoln to Stirling even with our smallish van behind. So its diesel for me till I'm taxed off the road which I'm sure will happen.

[BR traction instructor]

The Channel 5 programme on new electric cars mentioned above included an EV with capacity for towing and it had a built in hitch. They’re on their way.

 

BeRTIe

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said:

The Channel 5 programme on new electric cars mentioned above included an EV with capacity for towing and it had a built in hitch. They’re on their way.

 

The electric Ford F150 can tow four and a half tonnes. You can't buy one here though.

[Hroth]

On 30/09/2022 at 09:26, APOLLO said:

Buy a bike (a pedal one) !!!!

 

You could get an electric one...

 

(And not just one of those Electropeds either!)

[black and decker boy]

On 30/09/2022 at 09:26, APOLLO said:

 

If every single car park space (or even say half of them) of them had charging points, the total sum of the electricity supply for that car park would be huge indeed (depending of course on car park size). Factor in proximity of such car parks in (thinking supermarkets, where most existing ICE motorists fill up) in towns / cities, then the existing supply infrastructure (HV cables, sub stations, feeders to sub stations and on up the chain to power stations, a mega investment needs to be made just for EV's. In todays (and tomorrows, next years, next decade etc) power hungry / supply famine world I think such things are increasingly pie in the sky.

 

We will be rationed and priced according to mileage soon, petrol, diesel AND EV.

 

The days of cheap(ish) motoring (EV's included) has been and gone.

 

Buy a bike (a pedal one) !!!!

 

Brit15

 

 

We a fact I can give is that new build warehouses and similar commercial buildings are being built with electrical capacity for full EV charging facilities - the power draw for 7KW chargers is factored into the new mains feeds, substations and below ground ducting under the new car parks.

 

I’m building these now at work 

Edit: to be clear, we are building in the capacity. Currently chargers will be physically fitted to between30% & 50% depending on which client we are working for.

 

National sustainability certification body, BREEAM promotes this as best practise (ditto solar being built in from new).

 

let’s be clear, town centre car parks do not need to be wholly fitted with rapid charging, 150kw to 350kw chargers. 7KW is plenty. 7 KW equates to a 32A feed. You’ll get lots of those before you overload many DNO networks (or need a HV feed and small substation).

Edited October 2, 2022 by black and decker boy
Afterthought

[black and decker boy]

On 01/10/2022 at 15:13, Mike 84C said:

I like to pull a caravan and we often go to the Far North of Scotland or Norfolk maybe the Welsh borders . Can't see any EV making it from Lincoln to Stirling even with our smallish van behind. So its diesel for me till I'm taxed off the road which I'm sure will happen.

A Tesla model 3 can tow 0.9T and has a WLTP range of 374 miles.

A model Y can tow 1.6T and has a WLTP range of 331 miles.

It’s not far off doing the journey you describe (google says that’s only 300miles) but a short recharge (and comfort break stop) would be likely when towing.

 

both are quite expensive though so not wholly practical for the mass market 
 

 

[Ian J.]

WLTP isn't reflective of genuine real world conditions, despite being better than the previous efficiency tests. So take about 30% off those figures for the Teslas to get closer to what you're actually likely to get.

[black and decker boy]

5 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

WLTP isn't reflective of genuine real world conditions, despite being better than the previous efficiency tests. So take about 30% off those figures for the Teslas to get closer to what you're actually likely to get.

I got my model 3 in December 2019 (published range 348 miles). In summer, I’d be no more than 15% below WLTP (300-310 miles without concern) winter about 20% (270-280 miles)

I do 21-22k per year.

Tesla are still the most efficient in terms of watt/mile and the 2021 versions are better than my 2019 build.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

WLTP isn't reflective of genuine real world conditions, despite being better than the previous efficiency tests. So take about 30% off those figures for the Teslas to get closer to what you're actually likely to get.

 

My Mii did pretty much exactly its 168 mile WTLP in nice weather.

[Hobby]

11 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

I got my model 3 in December 2019 (published range 348 miles). In summer, I’d be no more than 15% below WLTP (300-310 miles without concern) winter about 20% (270-280 miles)

 

Towing?

[Jol Wilkinson]

13 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

We a fact I can give is that new build warehouses and similar commercial buildings are being built with electrical capacity for full EV charging facilities - the power draw for 7KW chargers is factored into the new mains feeds, substations and below ground ducting under the new car parks.

 

I’m building these now at work 

Edit: to be clear, we are building in the capacity. Currently chargers will be physically fitted to between30% & 50% depending on which client we are working for.

 

National sustainability certification body, BREEAM promotes this as best practise (ditto solar being built in from new).

 

let’s be clear, town centre car parks do not need to be wholly fitted with rapid charging, 150kw to 350kw chargers. 7KW is plenty. 7 KW equates to a 32A feed. You’ll get lots of those before you overload many DNO networks (or need a HV feed and small substation).

I find it remarkable that the 3500 new houses being built around Felixstowe do not have solar panels or EV charging points as a government requirement.

[black and decker boy]

35 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I find it remarkable that the 3500 new houses being built around Felixstowe do not have solar panels or EV charging points as a government requirement.

I understand building regs change and all new housing receiving planning consents from Jan 2023 DO have to have solar / EV chargers and air source heat pumps. I don’t think it’s retrospective though so anything already being built or with consent in place can be built with / without such things.

 

locally to me in the Chilterns, most new builds do have solar and/or EV chargers built in

[black and decker boy]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

 

Towing?

No, but just wanted to give context to the WLTP figures vs real life 

[Ron Ron Ron]

3 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

.......locally to me in the Chilterns, most new builds do have solar and/or EV chargers built in

 

Of the numerous new build developments near here, those few that do have solar panels provided by the developer, are all token gestures of little use.

Each dwelling is provide with only 2 or at the most 4 panels.

You can bet that they'll be older tech, budget and low output examples too.

A fat lot of use that'll be in making a significant impact on both energy savings and on the reliance on the grid.

 

 

.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Ron Ron Ron

[Guest]

Plug in car grant is back for a bit until next March

 

https://www.drivingelectric.com/news/408/uk-electric-car-grant-reinstated-until-march-2023

[Ron Ron Ron]

I’ve noticed MG are running a big promotional campaign to promote the new MG4 EV.

TV adverts appearing on various commercial channels and ads placed in lots of printed media.

 

MG are transforming from being an almost joke, cheap Chinese offering, fronting under a faded and cheapened iconic British brand, into a serious contender in the UK marketplace.

 

MG’s sales figures for September are double that for companies, such as Renault, Citroen, Honda, Land Rover, Mazda and Volvo.

The MG4 and other new EV models in the pipeline look set to be common sights on British roads.

 

 

p.s. Edit - I note reports coming in from people who've looked over or driven the MG4, that it does feel very cheaply made (e.g. with low grade plastics and dodgy panel gaps etc).

.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Ron Ron Ron

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

MG are transforming from being an almost joke, cheap Chinese offering, fronting under a faded and cheapened iconic British brand, into a serious contender in the UK marketplace.

Yep.

The MG6 was a stinker.

The MG3 was pretty good but the engine was dated.

By skipping to EVs MG are competing on a level field with mainstream manufacturers.

[Jol Wilkinson]

20 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

I’ve noticed MG are running a big promotional campaign to promote the new MG4 EV.

TV adverts appearing on various commercial channels and ads placed in lots of printed media.

 

MG are transforming from being an almost joke, cheap Chinese offering, fronting under a faded and cheapened iconic British brand, into a serious contender in the UK marketplace.

 

MG’s sales figures for September are double that for companies, such as Renault, Citroen, Honda, Land Rover, Mazda and Volvo.

The MG4 and other new EV models in the pipeline look set to be common sights on British roads.

 

 

p.s. Edit - I note reports coming in from people who've looked over or driven the MG4, that it does feel very cheaply made (e.g. with low grade plastics and dodgy panel gaps etc).

.

It is common for any new manufacturer trying to establish itself in a new market is to compete heavily on price. With such a cost-conscious nation as we live in, it will always attract buyers.

 

The only person I know who has an MG, bought it as perceived good value for money

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

It is common for any new manufacturer trying to establish itself in a new market is to compete heavily on price. With such a cost-conscious nation as we live in, it will always attract buyers.

 

The only person I know who has an MG, bought it as perceived good value for money

That’s how Kia and Hyundai started out……look at them now.

[BR traction instructor]

These same companies tend to monopolise the supply of spares in order to recover the carrot that got you to buy their vehicle in the first place. Not such a bargain when the complete 3D image snaps into focus.

 

BeRTIe

Edited October 6, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[Ron Ron Ron]

I've been posting "Ron's monthly update on UK new car registrations", for a long time now, hoping to illustrate with the monthly SMMT stats, the gradual shift in new car sales, towards EV and Hybrid vehicles.

I've no idea if it's of interest to anyone, as I've received no feedback, either positive or negative?

I'll try and keep it going on a monthly basis until the December figures come in, in early January, to complete the data for 2022.

If anyone would like m to continue this exercise into 2023, do let me know.

 

Anyway, here is the latest set of data, with the Society of Motor Manufacturers & Traders (SMMT) figures for new car registrations during  September 2022.

 

 

 

The following statistics also show the recent, monthly trend up to Sep 2022, as well as mid point figures for Jan & Jun 2020, as arbitrary, early reference points.

 

Market share by fuel/power  ........

 

Sep 2022

 

Diesel.                            4.6%.     (down from  5.0%   in Sep 2021)

Mild-hybrid Diesel        3.8%      down from  5.3%    in Sep 2021)

Petrol.                          40.7%.     (down from  43.8%  in Sep2021)

Mild-hybrid Petrol       15.6%.    (up from  12.7%      in Sep 2021)

Hybrid                          12.9%.     (up  from  11.6%     in Sep 2021)

Plug-in Hybrid               5.5%.     (down from  6.4%     in Sep 2021)

BEV (battery).              16.9%.     (up from  15.2%        in Sep 2021)

 

 

The market share figures for pure electric cars (BEV's) have steadily grown from 2.7% in Jan 2020 and 6.9% in Jan 2021.

Although 2022 has seen an interruption in take-up, due to supply problems and long back order lists.

 

16.9%  in Sep 2022

14.5%  in Aug 2022

10.9%  in Jul 2022

16.1%  in Jun 2022

12.4%. in May 2022

10.8%  in Apr 2022

16.1%. in Mar 2022

17.7%  in Feb 2022

12.5%. in Jan 2022

25.5%  in Dec 2021

18.8%  in Nov 2021

15.2%  in Oct 2021

15.2%  in Sep 2021

10.9%  in Aug 2021

  9.0%  in Jul 2021

10.7%  in Jun 2021

 6.5%   in Apr 2021  

 6.9%   in Jan 2021

  6.1%  in Jun 2020

  2.7%  in Jan 2020 (pre-Covid)

 

 

BEV, PHEV & Hybrid combined, regularly accounts for just under one third of the new car market.

 

35.3%  in Sep 2022   (hovering around a third of total monthly sales, over the last 12 months)

31.7%  in Aug 2022

28.9%  in Jul 2022    (the same as Jul 2021)

32.2%  in Jun 2022

30.0%  in May 2022

27.9%  In Apr 2022

34.1%  in Mar 2022

37.3%  in Feb 2022

32.1%  in Jan 2022 

41.2%  in Dec 2021

36.4%  in Nov 2021

31.2%  in Oct 2021

33.2%  in Sep 2021

30.1%  in Aug 2021

28.9%  in Jul 2021

25.9%  in Jun 2021

21.6%  In Apr 2021

21.3%  in Jan 2021

16.5%  in Jun 2020

11.9%  in Jan 2020 (pre-Covid)

 

 

Separating out just the Hybrid's and Plug-in Hybrids, ....combined, these accounted for...

 

18.4%  in Sep 2022

17.2%  in Aug 2022

18.0%  in Jul 2022

16.1%  in Jun 2022

17.6%  in May 2022

17.1%  In Apr 2022

18.0%  in Mar 2022

19.6%  in Feb 2022

19.6%  in Jan 2022

15.7%  in Dec 2021

17.6%  in Nov 2021

16.0%  in Oct 2021

18.0%  in Sep 2021

19.2%  in Aug 2021

19.9%  in Jul 2021

15.2%  in Jun 2021

15.1%. In Apr 2021

14.4%  in Jan 2021

10.4%  in Jun 2020

  9.2%  in Jan 2020 (pre-Covid)

 

 

Pure ICE (both Petrol & Diesel combined) is now half of the new car market, much lower than what it was 2 years ago..

A comparison with previous periods...

 

45.3%  in Sep 2022

52.5%  in Aug 2022

51.2%  in Jul 2022

49.7%  in Jun 2022

51.7%. in May 2022

51.4%. In Apr 2022

47.6%  in Mar 2022

47.2%  in Feb 2022

49.9%  in Jan 2022

43.5%  in Dec 2021

48.4% in Nov 2021

52.1%  in Oct 2021

48.8%  in Sep 2021

50.8%  in Aug 2021

51.9%  in Jul 2021

54.5%  in Jun 2021

60.2%. In Apr 2021

62.1%  in Jan 2021

76.3%  in Jun 2020

80.5%  in Jan 2020 (pre-Covid)

 

 

Combine the new Mild Hybrid ICE (both Petrol & Diesel) with pure ICE and the total ICE figures are...

 

64.7%  in Sep 2022   (so roughly averaging 2 thirds of new sales each month, over the last 12 months)

68.3%  in Aug 2022

70.9%  in Jul 2022   (the same as Jul 2021)

67.8%  in Jun 2022

69.9%  in May 2022

72.0%  In Apr 2022

65.8%  in Mar 2022

62.7%  in Feb 2022

67.9%  in Jan 2022

58.8%  in Dec 2021

63.6%  in Nov 2021

68.7%  in Oct 2021

66.8%  in Sep 2021

70.0%  in Aug 2021

70.9%  in Jul 2021

74.1%  in Jun 2021

78.5%  in Apr 2021

78.8%  in Jan 2021

83.5%  in Jun 2020

88.0%  in Jan 2020 (pre-Covid)

 

 

 

n.b. Supplies of all new cars continue to be constrained due to shortages of micro-chips and other sub-components.

BEV sales are not only being constrained by the supply chain issues, but demand is far exceeding availability, with long delivery times up to and over a year on many models.

 

 

 

.

 

 

[BR traction instructor]

Important to maintain the diversity & currency of this thread Ron, if only to see the direction & uptake rate of the new technology…a vote to continue from me.

 

BeRTIe

Edited October 7, 2022 by BR traction instructor