Wagon Lettering Black Patch

[Wickham Green too]

As we all know BR chose to paint unfitted wagons pale grey ( and fitted ones red bauxite ) but needed to put the white lettering on a black patch as there was insufficient contrast against the grey .............. why didn't they simply letter them with black paint ( as they did on white refrigerator vans ) ? ................. discuss .............

[Rob Haigh]

I don't know the actual answer, but my guess is that it originated with the practice of painting a black box on ex-private owner wagons (that were still in there original worn out liveries) in very early BR days, since the original background colour could vary, before they started painting all ex-PO wagons BR grey.

 

(Couldn't find a real-world example but this will do for now, not my photo):

 

 

Secondly, if the number had gotten worn and hard to read, it was probably easier to slap some black paint over the top (since black paint could be found everywhere?)and reapply the white numbers. This would be clearer than just re-doing the white numbers on the worn wagonside, and easier/neater than finding the correct shade of grey?

Edited October 21, 2021 by Rob Haigh

[The Johnster]

Don't forget the numbers had to be read reasonably easily in all sorts of weather conditions and at night in poor lighting.  They were often the only part ever cleaned on the more disgraceful wagons, and XPOs were very much in that category!  IIRC the black patch was also used on unfitted opens built during the early BR period, which were put into traffic unpainted in a 'bare wood' livery, not sure they were even varnished.  Post war austerity, often more severe than that in the actual hostilities, lasted into the early 50s and many items, including paint, were difficult to source.  What was produced was prioritised by government order for export, to relieve the dire balance of payments issue of the day,

[Wickham Green too]

Yes, but the vast majority of new BR wagons*  did get a proper paint job and the addition of the patch used far more paint than would have been necessary had they lettered black direct on grey.

 

 * how many dia 1/108 were there ??!?

[csiedmo]

I think you're over-estimating how visible black on grey is, especially in poor light or just on any mineral wagon that's not newly painted. Even without the black patch, white on grey is clearer than black on grey - see the stripe that points at the end door.

[jim.snowdon]

On 19/10/2021 at 14:26, Rob Haigh said:

Secondly, if the number had gotten worn and hard to read, it was probably easier to slap some black paint over the top (since black paint could be found everywhere?)and reapply the white numbers. This would be clearer than just re-doing the white numbers on the worn wagonside, and easier/neater than finding the correct shade of grey?

The patches on PO wagons emerged as a wartime measure when, due to repairs, the wagon's painted number had been expunged by repairs. Later, as they were renumbered it would have provided a ready means for obscuring the old number and thus avoiding confusion.

 

 

[Aire Head]

White also shows up better through the grime than black

[Mike_Walker]

2 hours ago, csiedmo said:

I think you're over-estimating how visible black on grey is, especially in poor light or just on any mineral wagon that's not newly painted. Even without the black patch, white on grey is clearer than black on grey - see the stripe that points at the end door.

I agree.  Several folk have commented that the Gatwick Express units working for GWR don't display numbers.  They do but are black on red and difficult to see.

[KeithMacdonald]

Is it a something like a tradition from using white chalk on a black background?

[Compound2632]

16 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Is it a something like a tradition from using white chalk on a black background?

 

White lettering on wagons of any colour - black, grey, red - was the norm from the year dot, as far as I can see.

[Wickham Green too]

....... except on light coloured wagons - such as perishables vans.

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

....... except on light coloured wagons - such as perishables vans.

 

Deviation from the norm. There did seem to be a vogue for white refrigerated vans, with black underframes etc. and black lettering - established I think by the LNWR. Midland grey could start out a very light shade on occasion, yet the lettering was always white. The only exception was black shading on meat and refrigerator meat vans.