BlackFivesMatter Posted October 24, 2021 Author Share Posted October 24, 2021 It's not a question of unions good or bad. Unions were, and unions are. They exist to help Thier members. Why did the GWR construct brake vans with a verandah at only one end when from 1923 at least the other three companies did not. Why was the GWR toad withdrawn from general and cross region routes in the early 1960s long before the demise of unfitted freight trains? Why were the blue Pullman's not adopted and subject to less success? There were issues with rail unions- I do not know what why or how. If I wish to model a N7 alterations to the cab may be required. I don't need to know why but if I'm told to accept it and just play - I'll ask why. Political? Well most of the branch lines we may model are no more because of political decisions. Like many enthusiasts I'll read about railway accidents, not because I have a morbid interest in death and destruction, but to find out how the safer systems we have today came into being. Yes Allegheny, I was thinking of the Popular Front For The Liberation of Judea. "He's not the driver, he's a very naughty boy" 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bittern Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 5 hours ago, BlackFivesMatter said: Why were the blue Pullman's not adopted and subject to less success? There were issues with rail unions- I do not know what why or how. ISTR reading (probably in Ian Beattie's article on the blue pullmans, so IDK if it is any more accurate than his drawings sometimes were) that the issue was about the difference in pay and conditions between BR catering staff and Pullman (UK) staff, even though Pullman had been nationalised in 1948 and had been a BR subsidiary before being fully absorbed. I can't remember ever reading which way round the difference was. 9 hours ago, lmsforever said: The RMT seem to inhabit a world different to that of the rest of us I get the impression (as an outsider) that in part they are just trying to push up wages and conditions as high as possible before the inevitable redundancies and de-skilling - get while the getting is good, and make sure the baseline for negotiating the redundancy cheque is as big as possible when it comes. It's not great for the industry, but there's no way the industry as currently structured can guarantee jobs (let alone career progression) for many RMT members if they just accept the changes, so I can hardly blame them for that strategy. Paying them off in a lump sum would probably be the best available "whole railway" solution, and might be cheaper for the treasury than the disruption caused by fighting RMT on the Southern, but it wouldn't suit the incumbent operator (who'd prefer to pay a bit and then pass the problem on to their successors) or the government (for obvious political reasons). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, roythebus1 said: Whereas top management looks very silly on a daily basis. If you say so. Perhaps you could enlighten us by setting out the 7 examples from the last week of railway top management looking very silly? Edited October 25, 2021 by DY444 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted October 25, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, DY444 said: Perhaps you could enlighten us by setting out the 7 examples from the last week of railway top management looking very silly? Aside from it rarely being worth picking a joke apart, it didnt actually say "railway" management. However in these enlightened times perhaps we should be careful not to casually characterise management as overpaid and incompetent when they may (also) be sensitive souls. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 25, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 25, 2021 ASLEF was the most militant union in the BR era. We hear a lot less from them these days, because there is now a very healthy market in drivers' posts, with TOCs having to maintain competitive rates, terms and conditions to retain their chaps and chapesses. The RMT, formally NUR, was famous for being led in recent years by the late "Jurassic" Jimmy Knapp. They continue to thump the tub about re-nationalisation, which I'm not convinced every ASLEF member would be suggesting. Nationalised industries tend to have national negotiating procedures, which people with political ambition enjoy, as it increases their visibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted October 25, 2021 Moderators Share Posted October 25, 2021 As the topic title asks for something different from what the OP says he wants to know and the inevitable confusion I'm locking the topic off. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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