Hornby Power clip For DCC - Is Non-DCC Version OK?

[latestarter]

Because of where I live (in the SW of Ireland), it will cost me £25 to buy one Hornby R8242 DCC power clip, with shipping. However, I can buy a 2-pack of R8021 for £9.40 on Amazon (with free shipping). Can anyone advise me if the R8021 clip is DCC compatible (there is conflicting advice on the Amazon page) or, if it can be converted to DCC by removing the capacitors?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Edited October 29, 2021 by latestarter

[WIMorrison]

TBH, a bit of solder and wires soldered onto the track is a lot cheaper and more effective.

[smokebox]

1 hour ago, latestarter said:

Because of where I live (in the SW of Ireland), it will cost me £25 to buy one Hornby R8242 DCC power clip, with shipping. However, I can buy a 2-pack of R8021 for £9.40 on Amazon (with free shipping). Can anyone advise me if the R8021 clip is DCC compatible (there is conflicting advice on the Amazon page) or, if it can be converted to DCC by removing the capacitors?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

You can just remove the capacitor.

[latestarter]

14 minutes ago, smokebox said:

You can just remove the capacitor.

 

That's very helpful, thank you.

[latestarter]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

TBH, a bit of solder and wires soldered onto the track is a lot cheaper and more effective.

 

But probably not as easy for a complete beginner, like me. I'm taking the line of least resistance for now. Speaking of resistance, I've bought a multimeter but still don't know how to use it!

[WIMorrison]

You need to learn to solder to build a model railway, it is the most basic skill that is required - and learning how to solder 2 wires to the track is an excellent place to start

 

[latestarter]

3 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

You need to learn to solder to build a model railway, it is the most basic skill that is required - and learning how to solder 2 wires to the track is an excellent place to start

 

I'm paying someone to put in the wiring for me. Also, (from my weeks spent on YouTube) it seems very possible to wire the track without soldering (using snap connectors).

[andyman7]

26 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

You need to learn to solder to build a model railway, it is the most basic skill that is required - and learning how to solder 2 wires to the track is an excellent place to start

 

Whilst I agree that it is a very useful skill, I'm always wary of taking the approach that to build a 'proper' model railway one 'must' have 'x' or 'y' skill - I still remember as a teenager the degree to which one could be discouraged by an 'experienced' modeller saying that something had to be done such-and-such a way rather than perhaps suggesting different approaches to consider. 

[ITG]

25 minutes ago, latestarter said:

I'm paying someone to put in the wiring for me. Also, (from my weeks spent on YouTube) it seems very possible to wire the track without soldering (using snap connectors).

Some ‘snap’ connectors are better than others. ‘Suitcase’ type are very reliant on being the right size for the right gauge of wire. Have a look at Wago type.

[WIMorrison]

Wago also have different sizes for different wire sizes.

 

35 minutes ago, latestarter said:

I'm paying someone to put in the wiring for me. Also, (from my weeks spent on YouTube) it seems very possible to wire the track without soldering (using snap connectors).

 
Not sure how you use snap connectors to connect to the track…

[latestarter]

17 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

Not sure how you use snap connectors to connect to the track…

The suggestion I've seen is to use Peco presoldered wire, that is connected to fishplates, as droppers. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by latestarter

[WIMorrison]

That then introduces the very problem that the use of dropper to the track as designed to avoid - rail joiners providing inconsistent and poor connection.

[Michael Hodgson]

35 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

That then introduces the very problem that the use of dropper to the track as designed to avoid - rail joiners providing inconsistent and poor connection.

In other words, although they may be easier to install they are not a good idea because they introduce a reliability problem.  Faults caused by loose or dirty electrical connections can be difficult to trace, as they are intermittent by nature.

 

I would stress the need to remove the capacitor for DCC if you are using one of those clips.  It is there on a DC layout to cut out electrical spikes, but if left on the device under DCC it will stop the layout from working.

[SamThomas]

You can just remove the capacitor(s) but as already suggested soldered connectings will be better if you have reasonable soldering skills.

 

However, some people are not very good at soldering (& some will never be) - bad/not very good solder joints will be a future cause for frustration. Thats why pre-soldered wires to fishplates are made & bought.

 

Please lets not discourage the OP with the usual RMW debates that seem to confuse people, never to be seen again.

[latestarter]

33 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I would stress the need to remove the capacitor for DCC if you are using one of those clips.  It is there on a DC layout to cut out electrical spikes, but if left on the device under DCC it will stop the layout from working.

 

Thanks for that advice. I actually removed the capacitors in a piece of power track that I hadn't realised was 'DC' only (apparently), so I have got the wire cutters bought!

[latestarter]

40 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Quote

However, some people are not very good at soldering (& some will never be) - bad/not very good solder joints will be a future cause for frustration. Thats why pre-soldered wires to fishplates are made & bought.

I've never done it and will try to avoid it if I can. That said, I'm not scared of learning curves (I'm teaching myself to speak Russian at the age of 66 and began playing the saxophone at 58 - and am up to grade 7 jazz, now). I just want to spend most of my time actually modelling and not building.
 

Quote

Please lets not discourage the OP with the usual RMW debates that seem to confuse people, never to be seen again.

Having worked in and then taught Psychology at Uni's for 30 years I know 2 things...some people like to show their experience while ignoring the inexperience of others and...it's OK to be inexperienced.

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by latestarter

[RobinofLoxley]

Provided you have a good iron and some flux, soldering is pretty easy. A poor iron can be a nightmare to use resulting in someone believing they have poor skills. 

 

Pre-Soldered fishplates work ok until a time comes when you require an insulated joiner in the only position a ail able then you have to make a dropper.

 

Getting  the layout built is ok but troubleshooting something you didn't build will be hard work.

[latestarter]

17 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

A poor iron can be a nighmare.

I have vast experience with this one...

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

4 hours ago, latestarter said:

I've never done it and will try to avoid it if I can. That said, I'm not scared of learning curves (I'm teaching myself to speak Russian at the age of 66 and began playing the saxophone at 58 - and am up to grade 7 jazz, now). I just want to spend most of my time actually modelling and not building.
 

 

Having tried both, I can assure you soldering is a lot easier to learn than Russian - especially when it comes to Cyrillic script that is hand-written.  As for saxophones, I am currently polishing one up up to go on ebay - it's the old old story that if you're bad enough somebody might pay you for not making that noise!

[latestarter]

11 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

As for saxophones, I am currently polishing one up up to go on ebay - it's the old old story that if you're bad enough somebody might pay you for not making that noise!

 

You might send the the link when it's up. I play tenor and soprano. UPS lost my soprano 6 months ago, when it was being sent for repair and it never came back. It was worth nearly £3000, and I had to buy a cheap (but very acceptable) one from Thomann, for a bit more than the £300 compensation they paid me! I thought I'd start a model railway to help me relax from the stress of it!

Edited October 30, 2021 by latestarter

[RAF96]

Best to use a power track if you have to rather than power clips. 

Reverting to DCC config is easy see here.

 

[latestarter]

1 hour ago, RAF96 said:

Best to use a power track if you have to rather than power clips.  Reverting to DCC config is easy see here.

 

Thank you for the helpful photos. I have a power track, and I've already taken the capacitor out some weeks ago. My issue was that I had been given to understand that a power track is best used as part of an oval.

Because of the layout I am planning (a Trakmat extension), it was only possible to put the power track on a siding. However, I tried it yesterday, on the full Trakmat layout -but without the extension - and there was power throughout the layout, with a 4amp transformer and the Select controller. So, it may be OK until I get the layout wired up.

[RAF96]

For a single or double siding you can get away with using those horrid points clips that look like staples. As they are steel they are a poor conductor but can make a good heater and melt your points if you rely on them to pass a heavy current, say from loop to loop plus many sidings, etc.

[DK123GWR]

On 29/10/2021 at 19:36, SamThomas said:

You can just remove the capacitor(s) but as already suggested soldered connectings will be better if you have reasonable soldering skills.

 

However, some people are not very good at soldering (& some will never be) - bad/not very good solder joints will be a future cause for frustration. Thats why pre-soldered wires to fishplates are made & bought.

 

Please lets not discourage the OP with the usual RMW debates that seem to confuse people, never to be seen again.

Further to this, I would suggest that track (especially modern Nickel Silver stuff, which I've found much harder to solder than steel) is not the best place to learn to solder. It's very easy to melt the sleepers if you get it wrong (and if you're doing it for the first time, you probably will) and any problems not spotted at the time will (as mentioned above) become a nightmare later on. When I relearned to solder (I had previously done it once at school the best part of five years beforehand) I practised on an old Hornby Hymek (the clips that connect the wires from the pickups to the motor had expired). This is the sort of thing that I would encourage a newcomer to start on - it's unlikely you'll melt anything, and if you do it will probably be hidden once you put the body back on.

 

Plus, if you don't make a good connection on your first attempt, it's far easier to recitfy the issue than it would be if something went wrong with the track. And if things really go wrong, you lose* one loco, and don't have to rip up all the track and start again.

 

*When I say lose I, remember that if the damage is mechanical or electrical you can just disconnect the motor from the pickups (if the damage is electrical, that last point may be redundant), remover the gears, and run the loco in double-headers, and if the damage is cosmetic, you can use the motor etc. for spares and the body for painting practise, if that sort of thing takes your fancy.

[latestarter]

Thanks for the very helpful reply. I'm getting power throughout out the layout now with one powertrack right at the end of a siding on the RH nearest edge of the baseboard to the control(ler) position. But, I won't be wiring it myself as I'm getting an experts help.

 

That said, my soldering iron comes tomorrow and I seem to have a lot of leftover track so I'm going to practice on it. If I melt the sleepers it won't matter too much.