War Department 8F's - Details of Modification From Standard Configuration

[Cunningham Loco & Machine Works]

Has anyone good detail photographs (or, less likely, drawings) of the modifications (from the original Stanier design) to the War Department 8F's?

 

[LMS2968]

Much depends on the period. The original batch of WD 8Fs came from North British in 1940 for use in France starting with WD 300. They were the basic 8F but with air brake equipment and their tyres turned to the continental profile. There was another batch built for export to Turkey, which were right hand drive. When they were sent to the Middle East, they were again fitted with Westinghouse equipment, but also acquired cow catchers, a large headlamp, much enlarged top feed and covers, and an additional layer to the cab roof, and most were converted to oil firing. Another class based on the 8F running gear but with a parallel boiler was developed, but that was in the Middle East and not in Britain.

 

Shown is 300 at NBL, and 1421 at Baghdad West station with all the modifications.

Edited October 31, 2021 by LMS2968
Additional information

[fulton]

Not on topic, a friend of mine, now passed on, spent four years in the middle east during the war on transport barges, z craft, he related that when American locomotives arrived the British 8Fs were shunted to the ends of the lines and used as buffer stops, they were that highly regarded!

[LMS2968]

They did a lot of good work in the Middle East and many were bought up by the national railways in the area during and after and consequently never returned home, so they couldn't have been that poor; this included engines built pre-war for the LMS. They were a bit small for a lot of the work, and coal fired engines were not popular in the desert heat, but bear in mind that they were operating in conditions never thought of at the time of their design. They did their job and the 8F Society has some of the material of two of the British army officers, Stewart Currie and Andrew Biwandi, in charge of their use and maintenance while over there. They seemed quite fond of them.

[Tony Cane]

The American locomotives were oil fired, which was important on the lines in Iran as the steep grades and long tunnels made the footplate environment lethal. The WD 2-8-0s also had problems with the injectors as the water in the tender was typicall 40 Deg C, tenders were painted white to try to reduce the temperature. The WD locomotives were used long after the war on the railways in the Egypt area.

[LMS2968]

22 minutes ago, Tony Cane said:

The WD 2-8-0s also had problems with the injectors as the water in the tender was typical 40 Deg C, tenders were painted white to try to reduce the temperature. The WD locomotives were used long after the war on the railways in the Egypt area.

The injector issue was resolved by sending out different cones from the UK, more suited to higher feed water temperatures. A bigger problem was gauge glasses, which the corrosive local water tended to eat away and engines began to be put aside simply from this issue. A desperate plea to home eventually resulted in an RAF bomber delivering, I think, 10,000 spares, along with a stern note saying that vital aircraft must never again be diverted from their vital work. Presumably, this vital work was bombing German civilians and was deemed more important than supplying Russia to keep it fighting in the war.

[sir douglas]

is the repatriated example sill a Shildon?

[Wickham Green too]

48773 is at Highley.

 

8274 is at Ruddington.

 

45170 is at Bo'ness.

[sir douglas]

28 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

45170 is at Bo'ness.

 

Thats the one i was thinking of but didnt know the number

[Marshall5]

One of the best references for the modifications made to the 8F's used overseas is JWP Rowledges "Heavy Goods Engines of the War Department Vol .2"

Re the 8F's sent to Turkey.  Of the 22 built to TCDD standards (RHD, airbraked, cowcatchers etc,) originally sent in 1941 7 were lost at sea. The 5 replacements sent out were built to WD standards and had to be converted in Turkey.  The last of these WD 554 (NBL24755) became TCDD 45170, the one now preserved at Bowness, still has its vacuum brake ejector pipe along the LHS of its boiler reflecting its earlier origins. 

Ray.

[jim.snowdon]

On 31/10/2021 at 01:28, Cunningham Loco & Machine Works said:

Has anyone good detail photographs (or, less likely, drawings) of the modifications (from the original Stanier design) to the War Department 8F's?

 

Have you tried Glasgow University library, who hold the North British non-photographic archives, and whose collection does include drawings of the LMS type 2-8-0s built for the War Department (as well as the Riddles 2-8-0 and 2-10-0 designs).