Cycling chat

[Nearholmer]

10 minutes ago, tractionman said:

that leaves around 2 - 3 days of truly optimal weather conditions for cycling

Ah, yes, that.

[Bernard Lamb]

13 hours ago, njee20 said:

Bikes are inherently 'lopsided' too, the entire transmission is on one side, which is a bigger weight discrepancy than a fork, to that end a Lefty-equipped Cannondale is probably more 'balanced' left-right than a normal bike!

 

Those Marins are showing their age (as is just about any mountain bike from 20 years ago, mind!), strong bar end game 

 

 

The Americans use bikes with the drive on the opposite side to everyone else on the track. They think this gives them an advantage.

For the more casual observer I suggest a close look next time there is cycling on the TV with an American rider in a pursuit event.

Bernard

[njee20]

The logic is sound, given you’re only turning left the chainring is sheltered by the front wheel more. A few teams used LHD bikes, Look did one too IIRC. Marginal gains and that… 

[Classsix T]

Harrumph.

One of the disadvantages (purely in a first-world problem scenario you understand) with a "modestly priced" bike is that anything I buy in terms of periferals ends up being, in relative terms, "expensive"? 

 

So on top of the purchase price of the steed, there was the necessary tyre pump and set of lights.

Months after getting it the front tyre deflated, rim adjacent puncture so I suspect the tube left the factory faulty. Repair kit bought, needed a spanner one size up from my largest to get the rear wheel off, ching!

 

Lost the battery cover off the front light recently, just the cover. I can buy a rear light single, no fronts the same in stock so that's a second set I've had to buy.

 

Jeez! By the time I obtain some road tyres next spring, I'll have equalled the spend to buy the flaming thing in the first place!

 

C6T. 

[Killybegs]

Just back from a very pleasant 16km spin around the lanes between showers to blow away the cobwebs. Weather looks better for tomorrow so hopefully will get out for a longer ride then.

[spikey]

35 minutes ago, Killybegs said:

Just back from a very pleasant 16km spin around the lanes between showers to blow away the cobwebs. Weather looks better for tomorrow so hopefully will get out for a longer ride then.

 

And I'm just back from a very pleasant 9.1 mile trip round the lanes on my Batavus pedelec, during the course of which I did a couple of errands and removed from the roads about 10lb of horse s**t for the compost bins.  In due course I will secure maybe 20lb of 24" x 12" horticultural glass to the back of the Sherpa (this being a Proper Bike), put my wellies on and pedal off to the allotments with it.

[Nearholmer]

For shopping and similar local trips, I have a c20yo old Pashley Paramount, which I bought very cheap as a ‘fixer upper’. The fixing proved to consist of adjusting and lubricating everything, pumping the tyres up, and polishing it, and the Brookes saddle is worth more than I paid for the whole thing, so a bargain. Since then, it has required zero maintenance (hub brakes; sturmey-archer five-speed).

 

 

It can carry a hefty load, and is very adjustable, so anyone in the family can use it if their other bike is off sick, but it must be the slowest bike ever made. If you put extra effort into it to go faster, you just get tired for no noticeable result …… it is a sort of black hole for effort above a given (very low) threshold, and I’ve never really worked out why. The brakes are pathetic, so it’s probably a good thing it goes slowly anyway!

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Nickey Line]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

it is a sort of black hole for effort above a given (very low) threshold, and I’ve never really worked out why

 

Hmm... I suspect the frame design is not stiff enough for efficient power transfer, and hub gears are 'lossy' (is that a word?) anyway. Like cycling through treacle? 

[airnimal]

I managed a 40 mile round trip today with my older brother.  We went to a pub for lunch that I had not been in for 60 years. I don't remember if I was allowed in side at that time or we had to eat in the garden but our dad took us all over Cheshire  and Derbyshire as children.  So we had dinner at the Smoker at Plumley a few miles from Knutsford.  The weather was kind to us without any wind which was unusual.  40 miles 10 years ago was a doddle but it's getting harder every time I go out now. Not sure how long it will be before I look at a E-bikes but I will put it off as long as I can. 

 

[njee20]

All I managed was to sneak in a 90 minute race on “Zwift”, a virtual online cycling platform; which whilst good, is no substitute for going outside! Lost out on the win by 1.3 seconds too 

[zarniwhoop]

On 10/11/2021 at 14:47, Bernard Lamb said:

Carbon is going to last a lot longer than steel.

Unless you prang it of course.

With carbon it is possible to get the material thickness just about perfect in all parts of the frame.

To achieve that with steel needs what was at one time called "designer select" and each frame tube was cut from a longer length to maximize or minimize the thickness. I did have a frame built that way back in the 1980s and it was strictly for use on smooth roads and I was instructed to maintain my weight at a point that was rather less than it is now.

I'm hesitant to intrude in this thread since I haven't been able to ride for 22½ years (injury), but you've finally provoked me - the discussion on tyres and rolling resistance nearly elicited a response, but I'm sure you all do not really want to know that my favourites for time trials on good roads used a track tub for the dry (Soyo 45, I think, although very little was left after it punctured) or an Alécy criterium tergal for the wet, and more generally Vittoria Corsa variants for less good roads, while for riding on chalk I had some white MTB tyres with small round 'studs'  - on wet chalk those were brilliant.

 

But 'designer select' ? The main steel tube manufacturers in the 80s were Reynolds (GB) and  Columbus (Italy). The better tubes were double-butted (for Reynolds,531DB, 531SL later 653, 753, for Columbus SL or SP). Then Columbus came up with helicoidal reinforcements in the tubes, SLX or SPX which added stiffness. I guess 'designer select' was Columbus 'pick individual tubes' ?

 

Whatever, carbon fibre is fine, but generally cannot be repaired whereas old-style steel can be repaired. Not sure if new-style TIG-welded steel can be repaired ?

 

Ditto re aluminium, but at least modern large-diameter aluminium frames are unlikely to shimmy on downhill road rides when they get old.

 

But I'm sure Greta will make her best efforts to get everyone onto bamboo bicycles.

 

Have fun while you ride.

 

ĸen

[zarniwhoop]

On 12/11/2021 at 09:20, Classsix T said:

So, wrt out of the box thinking re bike design, I've not seen oval crank rings since Sir Brad and Chris Froome brought them into the popular conscience on La Tour, are they a flash in the pan or very much a rider specific choice?

 

C6T. 

I used to have a "proper" oval (single) chainring on a timetrial bike, and longer cranks. That is, very oval, not the slightly-oval variant. A marginal difference, if any, but better jockey wheels in the derailleur would make more difference. It felt as if I could get up to speed faster (from a held-up start, with my right foot at a 45° position), and what feels good makes you go faster.

 

ĸen

 

[zarniwhoop]

On 11/11/2021 at 19:53, Bernard Lamb said:

njee20

The Alp is indeed a great climb.

Either of the back ways down are superior to fighting the traffic on the climb itself.

2005 was the last time I rode it. 

A girl I used to race with claims that the men are soft. She rode the original women's tour and the finish was several kms further on.

Bernard

 

Colour me jealous - I only rode what turned out to be not quite the whole ride once (1996 or 1997, I think) - lodgings near Grenoble on the thursday and friday, rode up for a warm up ride on the friday but didn't realise the "top" was beyond the village :-(

Not that I cared about the time, and anyway I was carrying a camera and essential food supplies because of my type I diabetes.

 

But that was just a warm-up for the B.R.A. (Brevet de Randonneur des Alpes) - Grenoble to Grenoble on the Sunday (250+Km), that year it went up the North Side of the Galibier. By the time I got back to the finish my feet had never hurt so much.

 

Two days later, on the drive back, I stopped in Luxembourg and could barely ride

 

If anyone is into distance riding, I recommend the B.R.A. - but ISTR that to qualify I had to complete 200K and 300K audax rides before I could enter. I assume (hope?) that audax uk is still going strong.

 

ĸen

[spikey]

9 hours ago, airnimal said:

... Not sure how long it will be before I look at a E-bikes but I will put it off as long as I can. 

 

Sorry, but I have to ask why because I really don't understand.  Would it somehow be "cheating"?  Would getting one be an admission of "failure", or that you're getting older?

[big jim]

It annoys me when people say I’m ‘cheating’ because I have an electric assist bike, I don’t see it as that at all, I recon had i bought a ‘normal’ bike I’d have probably not done quite so many miles over the last 5 months (1500 so far)  as it’s a nice simple bike to ride, not up and down through 21 gears like my last bike 20 odd years ago

 

to be honest when someone says I’m cheating (mostly in jest admittedly) I whip out this picture on my phone to show them where cheating will get you! 

[Nearholmer]

I’m in exactly the same camp as airnimal, although I think a few years younger back-calculating from what he says, and to me, it’s a simple thing: there is a huge amount of satisfaction to be had from self-powered locomotion. It gives one a buzz, it is life-affirming. Even if you can’t climb Mount Everest on a bike, or attain a world speed record, it is just plain good fun. So, you’d want to be entirely self-powered so long as you can.

 

My grandfather was still treading away on his immaculately-maintained 1935 Raleigh upright, using it to get to his gardening jobs, until the day before he passed-away at 84; my mother only gave up at a similar age due to balance problems; one of the ride leaders in our club is a 73yo grandmother.

 

But, if/when any part of my anatomy dictates, I shall be off down the e-bike shop as fast as my legs will carry me.

[Bernard Lamb]

4 hours ago, zarniwhoop said:

Colour me jealous - I only rode what turned out to be not quite the whole ride once (1996 or 1997, I think) - lodgings near Grenoble on the thursday and friday, rode up for a warm up ride on the friday but didn't realise the "top" was beyond the village :-(

Not that I cared about the time, and anyway I was carrying a camera and essential food supplies because of my type I diabetes.

 

But that was just a warm-up for the B.R.A. (Brevet de Randonneur des Alpes) - Grenoble to Grenoble on the Sunday (250+Km), that year it went up the North Side of the Galibier. By the time I got back to the finish my feet had never hurt so much.

 

Two days later, on the drive back, I stopped in Luxembourg and could barely ride

 

If anyone is into distance riding, I recommend the B.R.A. - but ISTR that to qualify I had to complete 200K and 300K audax rides before I could enter. I assume (hope?) that audax uk is still going strong.

 

ĸen

I was told in advance that the finish of The Alp was through the tunnel and that the actual finish line is in the middle of a car park in the middle of nowhere. Rather an anticlimax.

As for the BRA, I have ridden it the other way round, they change the direction each time. It is a super event but very hard. The photo is very poor as we had started from Grenoble at 2am and reached the top of the Galibier at just about dawn, The route included the Col du Mollard. A hairy section on the descent with no barriers and drainage run offs at a silly angle required both skill and concentration. This climb was never used in Le Tour until recently, considered to be too dangerous and the road has now been  been vastly improved.

The machine I am riding was built wit 531 designer select. Some of the tubes coming from the old Norton motorbike works when they closed. Yes, it does have three wheels and yes, if you have not realized by now I am totally mad.. 

Bernard

[jcredfer]

Quote> airnimal said:

... Not sure how long it will be before I look at a E-bikes but I will put it off as long as I can.  <Unquote

 

2 hours ago, spikey said:

Sorry, but I have to ask why because I really don't understand.  Would it somehow be "cheating"?  Would getting one be an admission of "failure", or that you're getting older?

 

It rather puts me in mind of "Horses for Courses".   Big Jim is combining improving his health / weight with cycling for pleasure and cycling to work [with some considerable distances and much success involved].  Whilst Nearholmer enjoys the ride for the enjoyment of self powered locomotion.  In similar fashion I ride to get [more than] the time in for what the NHS calls vigorous exercise, in what is, for me at least, an enjoyable form.  There are also those for whom their personal performance targets are what gives the "Buzz".   There's that lady, locally, who rides to do the shopping and other daily tasks, where her journeys take her across the hills, rather than along the valleys and sails past up the hills with a smile and battery assisted ease.  Oh, yes, there's another lady, older than myself, who sailed past me, on her 1940s sit-up-and-beg, with wicker basket[!], at such ease that I had to look down to check if my legs were in fact pushing the pedals like my other senses said they were!!      

 

It would seem that there is no straight answer to would it be cheating, or not, as the answer would be much dependant upon whether e-cycling was fit for the intended purpose for getting on a bike.

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by jcredfer
Correction

[Killybegs]

It all depends on who you are 'cheating'. If it's others, as in a competition, it would only be cheating if you didn't declare that you were on an ebike. If it's yourself, then you can't really fool yourself into thinking you are suddenly a better rider. I was very anti getting an ebike for a long time but then started talking to anyone that I saw with one, asking them why they bought them and what difference did it make to their cycling. Many of them said it was to keep them cycling when they were thinking of giving it up either because of advancing years or injury. As to keeping fit, you can work just as hard on an ebike as on an ordinary one if you so choose. You will just need to stick it in a higher gear. One up side of this is that you can fit in longer rides than you could before, for the same amount of effort. As ever, it's each to his own.

[spikey]

58 minutes ago, jcredfer said:

... I ride to get [more than] the time in for what the NHS calls vigorous exercise, in what is, for me at least, an enjoyable form. 

 

Same here.  The difference being that whenever I'm on the pedelec, I have the option to either choose one of four levels of assistance, or rely entirely upon my own exertion.

 

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 ... there is a huge amount of satisfaction to be had from self-powered locomotion. It gives one a buzz, it is life-affirming. Even if you can’t climb Mount Everest on a bike, or attain a world speed record, it is just plain good fun. So, you’d want to be entirely self-powered so long as you can.

 

I would agree with you entirely if the alternative was an electric bicycle.   But it isn't.  The alternative is an electrically-assisted bicycle, or "pedelec".  I admit to hating that word, but I know of no better alternative.

 

Whatever, I do wonder if half this apparent aversion to any means of powering a bicycle stems from an (instinctive?) assumption that the alternative to an ordinary bicycle is an electric one i.e. one which requires no input from the rider.  To me, an electric bike is a two-wheeled mobility scooter, but a pedelec is a way of maximising my enjoyment from cycling.

 

Edited to clarify that by "this apparent aversion" in the above para I'm referring to other cyclists in general, not specifically to Nearholmer.

Edited November 15, 2021 by spikey

[Nearholmer]

Spikey

 

nobody that I can see is telling you that you shouldn’t;, or that what you ride is to be decried; it’s entirely up to you what you ride.

 

Certainly I “get” the point that it is assisted, not a light motorbike, although at the highest levels of assistance allowed in the U.K. (250W) it’s precious close (that would probably kill the battery pretty soon, I guess). 
 

“Cheating” is when you pretend you aren’t doing something - if you’re up front about it it can’t be cheating.
 

Kevin

[airnimal]

Bernard Lamb, yes you are mad as was my old man. Growing up we had a house full of bikes, tandems, trikes and a tandem trike. Holidays were always on a tandem or when you were old enough, your own steed to places like the Lake District or Mid Wales. My dad was a turner so wasn't allowed to go to war. He spent the war years turning naval gun barrels doing 12 hour nights, 6 nights on then 1 night off. After the war he said he would never work at weekend ever again. He never did because they  were for cycling. He use to keep a cellar full of tandems for the South Manchester Blind Cycling Club and was always taking out members of the Blind Association. He was killed on his bike at 74 doing what he loved which was the way he always wanted to go and not being bedridden and grumpy. 

He was still getting out 2 or 3 days a week right up to his death. If he could ride up the Llanberis pass in his early 70's then at 70 I will still keep trying as long as possible.  I don't consider E-bikes cheating but I know that I am lazy and if I had one I wouldn't push myself like I need to.

Edited November 16, 2021 by airnimal

[njee20]

 

7 hours ago, zarniwhoop said:

Whatever, carbon fibre is fine, but generally cannot be repaired whereas old-style steel can be repaired. Not sure if new-style TIG-welded steel can be repaired ?

 

Ditto re aluminium, but at least modern large-diameter aluminium frames are unlikely to shimmy on downhill road rides when they get old.

 

Carbon can be repaired very successfully. There are a few companies doing superb jobs, these guys are in my neck of the woods, and I'm really impressed by the repairs I've seen (which are basically invisible). Aluminium I would always advise against, because it's been heat-treated at production, so any repair will be heavily compromised. As you say steel (and titanium) can be repaired very successfully, but I'd say is often actually a harder repair than carbon.

Edited November 15, 2021 by njee20
fixing URL

[Classsix T]

In the interest of clarity, when I used the phrase cheating wrt e-bikes up thread, it was purely from the personal perspective of denying myself the achievement of getting something done by my own willpower and physical exertion. Like looking up a game guide to complete a challenge within a video game. A purely self reflective attitude and in no way critical of anyone but myself. 

 

I should also point out I'm resident in the heart of Suffolk, where the topography can hardly be described as "mountainous"!

 

C6T. 

[spikey]

38 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

I should also point out I'm resident in the heart of Suffolk, where the topography can hardly be described as "mountainous"!

 

I'll have you know, Sir, that I once had a lady friend from Lavenham who was very attached to her "Suffolk Mountain Rescue" tee shirt.