Cycling chat

[Bernard Lamb]

17 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Yes, the “space” where what I need seems to exist is in “gravelly bikes”, but I’m not up for carbon or aluminium, because if I buy another bike it needs to last a decent length of time (if I can manage that myself), so the most attractive option is steel, and the most suitable I’ve seen so far is the Genesis Croix de Fer in the lightest steel (825 I think).

 

The idea of having one fork instead of two just seems plain daft to me, but then I am an engineer.

 

The challenge is to persuade someone to buy my touring bike for most of what I bought it for ……. TBH it was a mistaken purchase, I am never going wild-touring where I need to lug 40kg of gubbins (handles brilliantly when loaded with that weight of shopping, BTW). Any takers?

Carbon is going to last a lot longer than steel.

Unless you prang it of course.

With carbon it is possible to get the material thickness just about perfect in all parts of the frame.

To achieve that with steel needs what was at one time called "designer select" and each frame tube was cut from a longer length to maximize or minimize the thickness. I did have a frame built that way back in the 1980s and it was strictly for use on smooth roads and I was instructed to maintain my weight at a point that was rather less than it is now.

Acceleration with  a carbon frame, although not a requirement in a bike for general riding, is far superior to other materials.

Stability down hill is incredible.

Given of course that the other bits are of the same quality and an expert has checked that all parts are a correct fit.

 

If you do find a taker for your old tourer ask them if they would like a second one to keep it company. I have an ancient Iceni that has an outing about twice a year. As you say you can load a bike like that up with anything and it rides the same.

Bernard

[Nearholmer]

29 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

If you do find a taker for your old tourer

The sad fact is that it’s not old, it’s new.

 

Long story, involving folly!

[spikey]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The idea of having one fork instead of two just seems plain daft to me, but then I am an engineer.

 

That makes two of us.

[Nickey Line]

I have a bike I'd like to sell, too, though not my 30+ year old steel tourer, which I still ride from time to time, but a relatively new carbon bike... it just isn't comfortable. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

48 minutes ago, spikey said:

 

That makes two of us.

Surely a fork with one prong is a skewer?

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 08/11/2021 at 15:43, big jim said:

if the cycle to work scheme is running again next year to upgrade to the new carerra which has a supposed 70 mile range which will open my cycling adventures out further, so glad I didn’t go for the cheaper 20 mile range bike though!

I would certainly go for the bigger battery. The Trek Supercommuter has the 500 size, I think your is about 320, and I can get to my Daughter's house and back which is a 16 mile round trip with 1500 feet of ascents twice over with power to spare. The hardest ride I have done on it is over the Snake Pass to Ladybower and back via Hope, Edale and Mam Nick then Chinley and Hayfield. That's about 40 miles with 4000 feet of climbs. Using an EMTB with a 625 battery I have done from home onto the Pennine Bridleway across Lantern Pike to Hayfield, then Edale Cross, Jacob's Ladder,  Rushup Edge back to the Pennine Bridleway over South Head to Hayfield and back home via my own lane and off road route. Over 40 miles and 5000 feet of climbs and 25% battery remaining.

[PMP]

7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The idea of having one fork instead of two just seems plain daft to me, but then I am an engineer.

Well I'm not an engineer, but I'm assuming from your comment you've built an adjustable, twin fork, disc mounting, lockable, shock absorber in steel, that's lighter and stiffer than Cannondales carbon, fully adjustable, lockable, disc mounting monoshock leg  fitted to the Slate gravel and F29 mountain bikes I ride? 

 

Any chance of a picture of yours? 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

No, I just find a structure that depends upon two right angles arranged that way bizarre.

 

It really does strike me as doing something because it can be done, pushing the technology for the sheer fun of it, rather than doing what makes obvious engineering sense from the point of view of load-paths and safety.

 

I’ve no doubt it does all the things you say, and I’ve no doubt that it’s passed a zillion safety tests (a reputable firm from a litigious country wouldn’t sell it if it hadn’t), but I’ve also no doubt that it introduces two new “single points of failure” (things that, if they fail lead directly to complete failure of the system), which strikes me as a less than brilliant idea, given that conventional bikes have an unusually large number of single points of failure already.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I’m taking a pop at the design, not the rider.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Nearholmer

[big jim]

Something doesn’t sit right with me too, I’ve never seen one before until I saw the picture of PMPs bike, I think I’d be worried about the wheel spline snapping or bending if you had a bit of a jolt on it, also it seems to leave one side of the wheel exposed to dangers more so than the fork side

 

in my mind I’m also seeing it as being ‘one side heavy’ when turning, ok it’s carbon so it won’t be heavy heavy but surely it’s unbalanced 

[Nearholmer]

If you read-up on it: no it isn’t unbalanced, and the design of the structure gives very good proof against failure at the two obvious points.

 

I guess my pop at it stems from the fact that it runs the load path through a really unsound route, two right angles, so that an enormous stack of really clever engineering has to be thrown at it to compensate for that. They’ve clearly thrown said stack of clever engineering at it, it would be off the market due to compensation claims by now if they hadn’t, but to what end result in terms of realisable, as opposed to theoretical, performance advantage? Are all the top races won by guys riding these bikes? Is every other bike makes beavering away developing their own version because it confers such huge advantage? That’s the bit that reading-up doesn’t seem to answer.

 

Anyway, whatever else, it is very clever, and very interesting.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Nickey Line]

I'll confess to being with @Nearholmer and @big jim on the single fork thing... and to me it looks odd!

 

I guess we're just old-fashioned! 

 

It took me ages to get used to the idea of increasing sprocket numbers (eleven? Good Heavens!) and hydraulic brakes (why would you ever need them on a bike!)

Now I wouldn't be without either...

Edited November 10, 2021 by Nickey Line

[Nearholmer]

Old-fashioned, moi?!

 

This is an interestingly innovative machine, certainly something I’d consider if I could find one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedersen_bicycle

[big jim]

I might have a look at some of those new fangled hydraulic brakes at some point, then again I may well get me a new bike in the new year anyway, one with a longer range battery 

Edited November 10, 2021 by big jim

[njee20]

Cannondale Lefty forks have been around for more than 20 years. They’re extremely light, and very smooth due in part to their use of needle bearings, which AFAIK is unique among standard telescopic forks.
 

I agree they look a bit weird, but it seems to work!

 

8 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Carbon is going to last a lot longer than steel.

Unless you prang it of course.

With carbon it is possible to get the material thickness just about perfect in all parts of the frame.

To achieve that with steel needs what was at one time called "designer select" and each frame tube was cut from a longer length to maximize or minimize the thickness. I did have a frame built that way back in the 1980s and it was strictly for use on smooth roads and I was instructed to maintain my weight at a point that was rather less than it is now.

Acceleration with  a carbon frame, although not a requirement in a bike for general riding, is far superior to other materials.

Stability down hill is incredible.

Given of course that the other bits are of the same quality and an expert has checked that all parts are a correct fit.

You can make good and bad bikes out of anything. I’m always wary of anyone pigeon-holing materials in a certain way. I’ve had some really harsh carbon bikes. My least comfortable road bike I’ve owned was carbon. stability is related to geometry far more than material. 
 

You can optimise just about any frame material. Ok with carbon you can ‘do more’ with tube shapes and what not. I’m still tempted by an “English” bike (https://www.englishcycles.com/cat/custombikes/) one day, I’m confident that the ride quality would knock most carbon frames into a cocked hat.  

[newbryford]

17 minutes ago, njee20 said:

 

 

You can make good and bad bikes out of anything. I’m always wary of anyone pigeon-holing materials in a certain way. I’ve had some really harsh carbon bikes. My least comfortable road bike I’ve owned was carbon. stability is related to geometry far more than material. 

 

And shifting a saddle or bars by a couple of mm can also make a difference between comfortable or not. Even the position of cleats on a shoe make a difference.

Likewise, dialling in shock and fork settings turned my EX8 from good to great for me.

 

Luckily - I have a good mate that used to do bike fits for the very best - and has helped me tweak the settings on my steeds.

 

Many people will spend £1000s on a bike without thinking about having it fitted (or knowing how to ride it[*]) correctly. "All the gear and no idea" is oft-used.

 

[*] The best thing I ever did in my cycling history was a SMBLA training course. 

Bike fitting, handling, maintenance, trail leadership, first aid etc.

 

I became a far more confident and better rider as a result (barring my off a few weeks back!)

 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Reflecting on my incredulity about the single fork design last night …….

 

PMP,

please accept my apologies for any offence that I’ve caused. I could have said it without using a provocative word.

Kevin

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Nearholmer

[bodmin16]

What a great thread, thanks for starting.

 

Like most I used to cycle miles as a teenager and then as cars, beers and girls came on the scene, model railways and cycling took a step back for a while.  That said I returned to cycling some 6 or 7 years ago after getting bored looking at the garage wall on my exercise bike which I purchased second hand to get myself a little fitter.  I was (and still am although slightly less so now) overweight and it was feared that I had gone down the path of type 2 diabetes, which subsequently turned out to be Cranial Diabetes Insipidus rather than Melitus!  It is a somewhat different beast and a whole lot rarer, but that is another story.  The net result that I am now (like "Slim Jim") 6 stones lighter than I was own 2 road bikes and 1 hybrid, am doing something like 4000 miles a year and as well as my physical health it has done wonders for my mental health.  It is interesting to see all these wonderful and different bikes on here, the electric bikes are a great development and no doubt one day I may have to succumb but until then it is 100% me although I may not be the quickest.

 

Attached - model railways share the garage with bikes, our cars live on the drive!  Where else?  I have been lucky enough to cycle over this bridge (it is flipping noisy) and finally 2 images to show the effects that cycling can contribute to (I have changed my eating habits too!)

 

 

[njee20]

Great job on the weight loss. That ride over the Golden Gate and up the Marin headland to that viewpoint is amazing, would love to take my own bike over there and go for a proper ride. And you (or your neighbour) has a Golf R too, good choice

 

 

[Nickey Line]

18 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Old-fashioned, moi?!

 

This is an interestingly innovative machine, certainly something I’d consider if I could find one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedersen_bicycle

 

Decidedly Heath-Robinson in appearance, but supposed to be very comfy!

[Nickey Line]

17 hours ago, njee20 said:

still tempted by an “English” bike

 

Plenty of custom builders in Britain, no need to go to the States for one!

[njee20]

Of course there are, but it’s not specifically custom bikes that appeal, it’s those ones! Rob English is British anyway FWIW, he just relocated to the West Coast about 15 years ago.

[Nickey Line]

4 minutes ago, njee20 said:

but it’s not specifically custom bikes that appeal, it’s those ones!

 

 Fair enough... 

[bodmin16]

1 hour ago, njee20 said:

Great job on the weight loss. That ride over the Golden Gate and up the Marin headland to that viewpoint is amazing, would love to take my own bike over there and go for a proper ride. And you (or your neighbour) has a Golf R too, good choice

 

 

Thanks!

The car was my neighbours, they have since moved away and I think he has since said goodbye to it due to an expanding family.  We only have boring cars these days, my wife leases a Mazda 323 and I've got a Tigra, which is ne t to useless as I can't even get a wheel in the boot let alone a whole bike. That is my wife BTW driving my car!

[njee20]

I can comfortably get a bike in the back of my Golf R luckily (front wheel out) but the boot is noticeably smaller then the FWD models! I remember a chap turning up to a race in an Audi R8, with the bike in the passenger seat. Where there’s a will…

 

Before this becomes a car thread, here are my two most recent road bikes, a bit different, with both frames being purchased direct from China. I couldn’t find something I liked at a price I was willing to pay from a mainstream brand, so I thought I’d try this Deng Fu FM208, a fraction of the cost of any of the big brands, and it’s lovely to ride! Frame was $1000 posted, custom painted (which added a whopping $60!). rims also came from China. I’ve had a pair of Chinese mountain bike rims for about 7 years now, they’ve been faultless. 

 

 

On the back of this one I subsequently bought a new winter bike too. Same supplier. They’re great to deal with, very easy! In this case the wheels came from a random seller on AliExpress! 

 

As mentioned previously I chose to take the latter to the Alps, because of the disc brakes, despite being a significsntly heavier bike. Here it is unceremoniously at the top of a sopping wet, out of season Alpe d’Huez! Not an open coffee shop in sight!
 

 

hoping to go back next year, and decided I ‘need’ a new bike for it, I’m immediately thrust back into irritation about the mainstream brands, this time for availability (or lack thereof!). 

[Classsix T]

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the youngest "old giffer" in this (or any other RMweb) thread! 

 

I need a general purpose bike to get me to and from work, I see these for £250, anything off? (a cast-iron tank).

 

Electric bikes! Cheating! 

 

Disc brakes! 

 

Carbonunobtainium-alloy frames!

 

Some sort of one prong affair up-front!

 

Wow. Rule one applies chaps fer sure, but I'll have to admit to just jumping on a machine to test myself as opposed to letting the machine do much of the work for me.

 

Horses for courses undoubtedly, but I'm soooo out of the loop!

 

C6T.