Improving a Nu Cast L&Y 0-6-2T kit

[GWR8700]

Hello,

I bought an old L&Y 0-6-2T unbuilt kit off ebay last week and I was wondering if anyone had any advice on improving the chassis?

It doesn't come with any brake apparatus and the coupling rods are fixed.

Are there any options for adding brakes to the locomotive.  Are there any options for improving the chassis (possibly with compensation or making it sprung) that are available?

I am new to kit building.

[Jol Wilkinson]

If you are new to kit building, buying an old kit cheaply may seem like a good idea, but is often a false economy. 

 

I would suggest you build it as designed and then move on to a more modern, complete kit that includes options for compensation, etc.

 

If you want to improve what you have bought, then try Alan Gibson fo coupling rods and brake gear.

[GWR8700]

50 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

If you are new to kit building, buying an old kit cheaply may seem like a good idea, but is often a false economy. 

 

I would suggest you build it as designed and then move on to a more modern, complete kit that includes options for compensation, etc.

 

If you want to improve what you have bought, then try Alan Gibson fo coupling rods and brake gear.

Thanks,

I will buy the appropriate Alan Gibson parts but build something else in the meantime.

Do Alan Gibson do compensated chassis?

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 minute ago, GWR8700 said:

Thanks,

I will buy the appropriate Alan Gibson parts but build something else in the meantime.

Do Alan Gibson do compensated chassis?

AG don't do compensated chassis.

 

Some kit producers sell the chassis from their kits separately but there isn't one specifically for the L&Y 0-6-2 AFAIK. Not all kit designs provide for compensation as they are aimed mainly at the OO market.

 

There are also kits from Brassmasters and High Level for RTR bodies which have good levels of detail. compensation/springing, etc.

 

If you are new to this sort of kit building I suggest you might take a look at the Iain Rice/Wild Swan books on 4mm loco construction. Although quire old they contain a lot of valuable information that is still valid.

 

[Steamport Southport]

AG chassis are compensated, they're designed to use the Flexichas method as advocated by Mike Sharman.

 

From the online catalogue.

 

PROFILE MILLED MAINFRAMES

 

In any locomotive, be it full size or a scale model, the mainframes play a decisive part in just how well that engine will perform. Accuracy is paramount in their manufacture and in model form, by utilising a process known as profile milling, we have been able to build up a wide selection of frames and also produce them to the precision required. The frames are profiled for use with our own range of sprung hornblocks (although most contemporary hornblock systems can be used) and the grade of brass used for these frames is very rigid and is far more suitable for the purpose than an etching grade of brass or nickel silver. They are supplied in 0.6mm brass which is just as strong as 1mm etching grade brass and we endeavour to keep a large selection of frames in stock. However, as most will be produced to order please allow an extra couple of days for delivery. A varied selection of tender frames to a similar design and specification is also available (see next page).

 

 

Jason

[Jol Wilkinson]

10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

AG chassis are compensated, they're designed to use the Flexichas method as advocated by Mike Sharman.

 

From the online catalogue.

 

PROFILE MILLED MAINFRAMES

 

In any locomotive, be it full size or a scale model, the mainframes play a decisive part in just how well that engine will perform. Accuracy is paramount in their manufacture and in model form, by utilising a process known as profile milling, we have been able to build up a wide selection of frames and also produce them to the precision required. The frames are profiled for use with our own range of sprung hornblocks (although most contemporary hornblock systems can be used) and the grade of brass used for these frames is very rigid and is far more suitable for the purpose than an etching grade of brass or nickel silver. They are supplied in 0.6mm brass which is just as strong as 1mm etching grade brass and we endeavour to keep a large selection of frames in stock. However, as most will be produced to order please allow an extra couple of days for delivery. A varied selection of tender frames to a similar design and specification is also available (see next page).

 

 

Jason

 

The AG frames are just that, a pair of profile milled frames. They need spacers, hornblocks, a radial/pony truck (for an 0-6-2T), coupling rods, brake gear, compensation beam and pivot etc. which is why I said AG don't do do compensated chassis, in the sense that many kits have one. 

 

I have used AG frames on a couple of models, using the other parts as supplied in the kit to make up the chassis. TGWR8700's L&Y kit doesn't include the brake gear and has rigid rods that he seemed to want to replace in his OP.

[hayfield]

18 hours ago, GWR8700 said:

Hello,

I bought an old L&Y 0-6-2T unbuilt kit off ebay last week and I was wondering if anyone had any advice on improving the chassis?

It doesn't come with any brake apparatus and the coupling rods are fixed.

Are there any options for adding brakes to the locomotive.  Are there any options for improving the chassis (possibly with compensation or making it sprung) that are available?

I am new to kit building.

 

11 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

AG chassis are compensated, they're designed to use the Flexichas method as advocated by Mike Sharman.

 

From the online catalogue.

 

PROFILE MILLED MAINFRAMES

 

In any locomotive, be it full size or a scale model, the mainframes play a decisive part in just how well that engine will perform. Accuracy is paramount in their manufacture and in model form, by utilising a process known as profile milling, we have been able to build up a wide selection of frames and also produce them to the precision required. The frames are profiled for use with our own range of sprung hornblocks (although most contemporary hornblock systems can be used) and the grade of brass used for these frames is very rigid and is far more suitable for the purpose than an etching grade of brass or nickel silver. They are supplied in 0.6mm brass which is just as strong as 1mm etching grade brass and we endeavour to keep a large selection of frames in stock. However, as most will be produced to order please allow an extra couple of days for delivery. A varied selection of tender frames to a similar design and specification is also available (see next page).

 

 

Jason

 

You will get lots of conflicting answers on here when asking questions, depending on the person answering interests

 

Jol is quite correct that in a lot of cases the modern etched kits are far better than kits made years ago, Jason has made some good points about Alan Gibson milled frames, but missed that they can be ordered with axle holes rather than slots for hornblocks, so a simple rigid chassis could be built

 

NuCast kits were one of the better manufacturers in their time, you state that you are new to kit building so in my opinion this tank loco might be a very good start for a first kit built loco

 

Whitemetal kits can be built by soldering them, but also can be built by using either 2 part epoxy glue or (better quality) super glue. Many novice builders find these latter two methods easier and if soldering I suggest the use of low melt solder 70 degree

 

NuCast kits initially came with cast chassis, later ones with simple etched brass frames. What type of chassis came with the kit ?  Did it come with wheels and or motor. A bit more info (perhaps a few photos) of the kit and what came with it will allow a bit more focused replies

 

Personally for a first time kit built project I think you are on the right road

White metal kits are easier to build, certainly small tank locos without any complicated valve gear are also easier to build, its always better to start off with a kit at the lower price range rather than a large expensive one

 

In its day this was not a cheap kit, and unless its missing items L&Y locos are popular, usually selling for good money. Well done and welcome to the kit builders group

[GWR8700]

On 18/12/2021 at 09:17, hayfield said:

 

 

You will get lots of conflicting answers on here when asking questions, depending on the person answering interests

 

Jol is quite correct that in a lot of cases the modern etched kits are far better than kits made years ago, Jason has made some good points about Alan Gibson milled frames, but missed that they can be ordered with axle holes rather than slots for hornblocks, so a simple rigid chassis could be built

 

NuCast kits were one of the better manufacturers in their time, you state that you are new to kit building so in my opinion this tank loco might be a very good start for a first kit built loco

 

Whitemetal kits can be built by soldering them, but also can be built by using either 2 part epoxy glue or (better quality) super glue. Many novice builders find these latter two methods easier and if soldering I suggest the use of low melt solder 70 degree

 

NuCast kits initially came with cast chassis, later ones with simple etched brass frames. What type of chassis came with the kit ?  Did it come with wheels and or motor. A bit more info (perhaps a few photos) of the kit and what came with it will allow a bit more focused replies

 

Personally for a first time kit built project I think you are on the right road

White metal kits are easier to build, certainly small tank locos without any complicated valve gear are also easier to build, its always better to start off with a kit at the lower price range rather than a large expensive one

 

In its day this was not a cheap kit, and unless its missing items L&Y locos are popular, usually selling for good money. Well done and welcome to the kit builders group

Hey,

Thank you for the words of encouragement.  I have attached a photo of the contents.  It's a brass chassis, has a motor and romford wheels.  I am currently undecided on whether to build it to EM or 00. 

I've ordered the Iain Rice book on whitemetal kits and another wild swan book on chassis construction.  I'll make sure to buy some low melt solder.  It is something I have wanted to get into for a while as in order to make a layout really your own.

 

[Steamport Southport]

If it's brake gear you are looking for have a look at Mainly Trains/Wizard as they have a few sets.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/

 

For example.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/mt179/

 

The Gibson ones are also good and with plastic parts don't cause shorts.

 

 

Jason

[hayfield]

15 hours ago, GWR8700 said:

Hey,

Thank you for the words of encouragement.  I have attached a photo of the contents.  It's a brass chassis, has a motor and romford wheels.  I am currently undecided on whether to build it to EM or 00. 

I've ordered the Iain Rice book on whitemetal kits and another wild swan book on chassis construction.  I'll make sure to buy some low melt solder.  It is something I have wanted to get into for a while as in order to make a layout really your own.

 

 

It sounds like you may have the older brass bar chassis rather than the simple etched version, which is also brass. Photo not attached please try again as it helps us to be more focused on our replies

 

As well as buying 70 degree low melt solder (Joints can be undone by potting the parts into steam. Also use a decent liquid flux, I use Carrs green which is for steel. Normally I use Carrs red (organic) for brass & nickelsilver. 

 

Also get a set of London Road Models (or other make) axle/hornblock alignment jigs, they are cheap but allow you to align the bearings to the coupling rods. They are very simple to use as they are basically long axles with turned down ends which the coupling rods fit over

 

For a first build I would make it as per instructions, especially the chassis. Learn how to make a running chassis, you can always retro detail it later 

 

When its your first model its a learning curve keep it simple, it might even be worth sticking the whitemetal parts together with quick set epoxy.  Small parts may melt with soldering use glue

[GWR8700]

On 20/12/2021 at 09:54, hayfield said:

 

It sounds like you may have the older brass bar chassis rather than the simple etched version, which is also brass. Photo not attached please try again as it helps us to be more focused on our replies

 

As well as buying 70 degree low melt solder (Joints can be undone by potting the parts into steam. Also use a decent liquid flux, I use Carrs green which is for steel. Normally I use Carrs red (organic) for brass & nickelsilver. 

 

Also get a set of London Road Models (or other make) axle/hornblock alignment jigs, they are cheap but allow you to align the bearings to the coupling rods. They are very simple to use as they are basically long axles with turned down ends which the coupling rods fit over

 

For a first build I would make it as per instructions, especially the chassis. Learn how to make a running chassis, you can always retro detail it later 

 

When its your first model its a learning curve keep it simple, it might even be worth sticking the whitemetal parts together with quick set epoxy.  Small parts may melt with soldering use glue

Thanks, I'll look into those.  I bought the On the Right Track DVDs on loco kit building which should hopefully be useful for demonstrating chassis building.

Picture attached below of kit contents

[hayfield]

This looks to be a nice basic kit which looks complete except for the glue/solder and paint, just the job for a beginner, good choice

 

You seem to have two chassis, an early brass block chassis and the NuCast (basic) etched chassis. This latter basic chassis should prove very reliable and not too difficult to build

 

I was advised by Dave Ellis (ex SEF) when building the DS10 motor mount, its best to build it first and test run it with the wheels and gears, adjusting the position of the worm gear until it runs nice and smoothly. You may have to add a piece of shim between the motor mount and motor if it sounds out of mesh. When you fold the motor mount keep the central part (where the motor fits to it) flat and not bent (easy to do if using fingers only)

 

Well done as the most expensive parts (wheels and motor) are there in the kit,

[GWR8700]

On 28/12/2021 at 14:50, hayfield said:

This looks to be a nice basic kit which looks complete except for the glue/solder and paint, just the job for a beginner, good choice

 

You seem to have two chassis, an early brass block chassis and the NuCast (basic) etched chassis. This latter basic chassis should prove very reliable and not too difficult to build

 

I was advised by Dave Ellis (ex SEF) when building the DS10 motor mount, its best to build it first and test run it with the wheels and gears, adjusting the position of the worm gear until it runs nice and smoothly. You may have to add a piece of shim between the motor mount and motor if it sounds out of mesh. When you fold the motor mount keep the central part (where the motor fits to it) flat and not bent (easy to do if using fingers only)

 

Well done as the most expensive parts (wheels and motor) are there in the kit,

Thank you,

I'll try with the brass chassis.  Should I add brake gear at a later date in order to build up experience first?

Thanks I'll try that for the motor mount.

Yeah i was quite lucky it came with them!

[Simon Moore]

This kit is actually a very nice kit, I've got one & the brass chassis takes our any worry of not getting it true. I have a decent motor I mine, they were originally designed for a triang type x04 I think. 

 

If you want to improve the look, a mainly trains etch from wizard models will give you brakegear. The only issue you will have is getting enough heat into that chassis to solder hangers etc to it. Personally I would just built it as intended in 00. You'll learn a lot of things from that kit without adding all the extras to it. Walk before you run. 

[hayfield]

51 minutes ago, GWR8700 said:

Thank you,

I'll try with the brass chassis.  Should I add brake gear at a later date in order to build up experience first?

Thanks I'll try that for the motor mount.

Yeah i was quite lucky it came with them!

 

I agree with Simon, for a first build just keep it simple. Get a chassis that both works well and fits the footplate first, aim for nice smooth running, you do not want to spend hours on anything that looks very nice but runs like a pig with 3 legs

 

As Simon wrote Wizard Models sells both the etched brake shoes and on a separate etch sets of brake rods. Alan Gibson do plastic brake shoes, I have some to try but not used any yet. Quite often some prefer models built as they were designed, others love to improve their kits 

[GWR8700]

5 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

I agree with Simon, for a first build just keep it simple. Get a chassis that both works well and fits the footplate first, aim for nice smooth running, you do not want to spend hours on anything that looks very nice but runs like a pig with 3 legs

 

As Simon wrote Wizard Models sells both the etched brake shoes and on a separate etch sets of brake rods. Alan Gibson do plastic brake shoes, I have some to try but not used any yet. Quite often some prefer models built as they were designed, others love to improve their kits 

Thank you, I will let you know how I get on

[CEINEWYDD]

Just for info, I completed one of these last year (year before???), as an ex Taff Vale  loco(class 03) in GWR  pondweed green. I used the milled solid brass chassis, as I have ten thumbs.  It certainly seems to run smoothly, so try that at first.

 

  The original L & Y locos were I believe built by Kitson,  who also built 062 locos for Hull & Barnsley, TVR  and Cardiff railway. GEM also did the TVR U/U1 kit, and all of these had the Kitson's  signature round topped side tanks.  Yes  I know the wheelbase(s) will not be correct, but no more so than the ex Hornby Chassis sitting under my TV U1. At some point I will sort new chassis for these latter two, and now I know S E Finecast  do an etched replacement I shall go down that route.  

[hayfield]

12 hours ago, CEINEWYDD said:

Just for info, I completed one of these last year (year before???), as an ex Taff Vale  loco(class 03) in GWR  pondweed green. I used the milled solid brass chassis, as I have ten thumbs.  It certainly seems to run smoothly, so try that at first.

 

  The original L & Y locos were I believe built by Kitson,  who also built 062 locos for Hull & Barnsley, TVR  and Cardiff railway. GEM also did the TVR U/U1 kit, and all of these had the Kitson's  signature round topped side tanks.  Yes  I know the wheelbase(s) will not be correct, but no more so than the ex Hornby Chassis sitting under my TV U1. At some point I will sort new chassis for these latter two, and now I know S E Finecast  do an etched replacement I shall go down that route.  

 

The Southeastern Finecast etched chassis are quite simple to build, but the brake gear is a bit fiddly

 

The thing holding most back is the cost, with Markit wheels alone now £6.25 each then you need axles and crankpins. I keep a lookout for these and decent Romford nickel tyre (not the old all cast) second hand which reduces prices somewhat

 

Motors can also be a bit expensive since Mashima stopped production, High Level now sell coreless motors for £30 and very small open frame ones for about £10

 

For me High Level gearboxes are the port of first call,  its not just the performance but choice as well.  Branchlines and Comet (not their motor mounts unless they have the small worm) come a good second choice

 

Lots have been said about flywheels not making much difference, but I have two locos which work much better with them. I think you need quite a mass to make a difference