BLT advice on signal and point rodding

[jamest]

Hi all,

 

I have a thread running on my layout build in the 7mm section and I was hoping for some advice on signalling and point control.

Here is the basic track plan.

 

I have started and I am about to commit to platforms, signal box,etc. I also want to put down the point rodding prior to ballasting.

 

question one: signals

where should I place the starter signal? I think in front of the signal box, not between it and the over bridge scenic break. I might want to have goods traffic waiting in the loop to depart. Can that be done with a ground signal? Or do I need another starter? At the moment I plan to have goods in the bay and not passenger services. I should add this converges to a single line after the bridge.

Starter as red below?

 

here is what will be the scenic break at the end of the cork:

 

Question two: point rodding.

is it ok to run all three scenic points from the signal box? I did think the one in the loop might be via a lever arm and the runaround controlled by the signal box?

 

I just want to get things planned out before I commit the structures and buildings.

 

I am happy to compromise as it is a modelled compressed scene. But I would like to get it make some sort of sense!

 

thanks in advance

James

Edited December 17, 2021 by jamest

[Siberian Snooper]

The starter could be at either location,  it depends how many vehicles you want in the platform road, and how far it is to the turnout that forms the station throat. The loco release cross over could either be hand levers or controlled from the box. Yes you could use a ground signal as a starter from the loop. 

 

The thing is that I don't think that your box would be the station side of the bridge as it makes sightseeing ot the station approach difficult for the bobby and collection and issuing the staff to the loco crew. Also it increases the length of the rodding runs.

 

Hopefully the Stationmaster will be along to give chapter and verse.

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

Difficult to tell as I'm not 100% clear about your running line(s) and platform(s), if you have passenger workings requiring Facing point locks or goods only as the signalling will reflect the traffic.  You need to draw up your signal box diagram before you know what rodding you need.

 

In general I would expect a crossover to be worked by a single lever.  This would mean there would be a rodding linkage between the two points, but with only one rod running from the box.  Points would however have a second rod from the box to FPLs where applicable. However an engine release crossover at a platform end would usually be worked by the fireman, using a hand point with a ground lever at one end with probably a spring point at the other to trap stray vehicles on the loop from running across the crossover into a train on the platform.

 

As a general rule there should be a compensator half-way between box and point, allowing for thermal expansion, such that total length of rod pushing is roughly equal to the length pulling, adjusting the calculation of mid-point for any cranks that for change direction of movement of the rod.  

[RailWest]

"However an engine release crossover at a platform end would usually be worked by the fireman, using a hand point with a ground lever at one end with probably a spring point at the other to trap stray vehicles on the loop..."

 

I'm not sure that I would agree with that sort of generalisation :-) In the layout depicted the release crossover IMHO is close enough to the box and well within good visibility to be worked directly from it.

 

To be honest, from the relatively short distance from station to the bridge, I would expect all the Up direction starting signals to be on the far side.

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by RailWest

[jamest]

Hi all,

 

I was preparing myself for information overload as I knew there would be plenty of advice! Please don’t take that the wrong way, I’d like to learn a bit.

 

I’m afraid I am one of those annoying people with developing plans and the tendency to change things.

 

I ‘see’ the practical point on the signal, and box, on the non scenic side of the bridge. I assume that if the box is off-scene the loco release would be ground frame. If I keep it scenic side, with a bit of modellers licence, I could control from the box.

 

To be clear the running line is the platform line (the station building is roughly where it should be). The platform will extend nearly to the box shown. I thought that some goods traffic might sit off the platform line waiting to depart after the passenger service arrives. But I suppose that is an unlikely concentration of activity on a country branch terminus.

 

I don’t want to be someone who asks for advice, and then ignores it, but I would like to include the signal box scenically if it can be slightly justified!

 

thanks

james

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

The disconnected line running from the fiddle yard is presumably deemed to be accessed from the running line other side of the scenic break - that means there is a notional pointwork connection to the running line somewhere on the far side of the scenic break - the layout of this will affect your Signal positioning. 

 

I like the bridge by the way.

[jamest]

8 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

The disconnected line running from the fiddle yard is presumably deemed to be accessed from the running line other side of the scenic break - that means there is a notional pointwork connection to the running line somewhere on the far side of the scenic break - the layout of this will affect your Signal positioning. 

 

I like the bridge by the way.

thanks.

 

I envisage a simple two points the other side of the bridge. The ‘bay’ joins the middle running line, and the front line joins the middle running line to create a single track.

 

I am happy to have the box on the scenic side suggested to connect to signals off scene if they would tend to be the other side of the bridge. Then have it control the points in view, with rodding/wire disappearing off under the bridge for the two unseen points, trap points, signalling, etc.

 

The impression I’m getting is that it is strange to have the box and signalling on the scenic side of the bridge. Presumably because the single line access would be dealt with/protected where the lines converge off scene?

 

I would have liked to have the other side of the loop scenic but my shed size does not allow it. I made a decision early not to put the fiddle yard outside. That may come next time!

 

Regards,

 James