Backing Signals

[richard.h]

On one section of my layout I have a small Station with a bay platform.

When a Train approaches on the Up Main and needs to reverse into the bay do I need a backing or set back signal further along the main line to indicate that it is clear to do so.

If I do what would one look like as I haven't found a clear photo of such a signal, I model British Rail Midland Region in the late 50s

 

Attached is a basic track plan if anyone can help.

Richard

[Michael Hodgson]

Backing signals were GWR, so probably irrelevant to your BR(LMR) layout.

They looked like an ordinary stop arm but with two big holes in them 

http://www.railsigns.uk/sect3page2/sect3page2.html

 

You will want a shunt signal - a ground disc would be usual, but other styles were used - to authorise setting back across the points into the platform.  

[Blandford1969]

10 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Backing signals were GWR, so probably irrelevant to your BR(LMR) layout.

 

Not totally, they were used on the S&D for example as seen at Evercreech junction or Binegar. However I would agree mainly a GW practice.

 

What you would have would probably depend on which of the pre grouping companies it was,, but probably just a  red dummy (ground signal) between the points and the box. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Blandford1969
Adding a detail

[Stephen Freeman]

6 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Not totally, they were used on the S&D for example as seen at Evercreech junction or Binegar. However I would agree mainly a GW practice.

 

What you would have would probably depend on which of the pre grouping companies it was,, but probably just a  red dummy (ground signal) between the points and the box. 

Not just the S&D, some of the Scottish companies had them too. Not an expert on Scottish railways  but think at least HR had them (same sort of scissors arm).

[RailWest]

6 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Not totally, they were used on the S&D for example as seen at Evercreech junction or Binegar. However I would agree mainly a GW practice.

 

 

I could argue about that...:-)

 

The GWR had 'backing signals', the L&SWR / S&DJR had 'wrong-road' signals, even tho' the latter did not actually label them as such (usually calling them 'shunts'), and in at least two cases used them for 'right road' movements anyway.

 

The key point - certainly insofar as the GWR was concerned - was that their 'backing signal' was not simply a larger version of a shunt signal, as it meant something slightly different when 'off'. What it meant on the S&DJR is hard to tell, as I've yet to find it defined anywhere!

[The Stationmaster]

7 hours ago, RailWest said:

I could argue about that...:-)

 

The GWR had 'backing signals', the L&SWR / S&DJR had 'wrong-road' signals, even tho' the latter did not actually label them as such (usually calling them 'shunts'), and in at least two cases used them for 'right road' movements anyway.

 

The key point - certainly insofar as the GWR was concerned - was that their 'backing signal' was not simply a larger version of a shunt signal, as it meant something slightly different when 'off'. What it meant on the S&DJR is hard to tell, as I've yet to find it defined anywhere!

The GWR also occasionally used Backing Arms as wrong road signals - effectively mimicking the use of a shunting disc.  There were two good example of this at Newquay where they were probably used for a sighting reasons when shunting stock out of the station platforms in order to access the carriage sidings.

[RJS1977]

And backing signals go up, instead of down.... ;-)

[RailWest]

8 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

And backing signals go up, instead of down.... ;-)

Eh ??

 

[RJS1977]

27 minutes ago, RailWest said:

Eh ??

 

 

 

[LNERGE]

Have a look at 8, 7a and 7b.. All to cope with backing moves.

 

 

[richard.h]

3 hours ago, LNERGE said:

Have a look at 8, 7a and 7b.. All to cope with backing moves.

 

 

Thanks so judging from the replies Backing or Set-Back signals were used by the GWR on the main line and other regions used ground disc signals which would be correct in my case (midland region).

I just wanted to make sure as I have a couple of signalling books which show positioning for Backing Signals but don't make clear which region used them.

[The Stationmaster]

I like that however the GWR were much cleverer because instead of that 7A and 7B arrangement they would have used a Backing Distant - far easier to see up on a signal post rather than looking for ground disc.  Not that there were ever many of them - so far I have only been able to run them to earth at two definite locations and one probable.

[5BarVT]

9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I like that however the GWR were much cleverer because instead of that 7A and 7B arrangement they would have used a Backing Distant - far easier to see up on a signal post rather than looking for ground disc.  Not that there were ever many of them - so far I have only been able to run them to earth at two definite locations and one probable.

We’re they fishtail with holes, or just holes but yellow, or something else?

Paul.