ECoSControl Radio

[Ron Ron Ron]

Hi Jens,

Thanks for coming on here and giving us a useful insight into the TouchCab application. I'd like to echo those who have already posted their appreciation.

I haven't had the benefit of personally seeing TouchCab in operation, but from looking at the videos and reading about other peoples user experience, I'm quite impressed with what I know so far.

 

For those who have been talking about the cost of buying an iPod Touch or iPhone, let's not forget many already own these devices (millions have been sold) and have a wireless network at home. The cost for ECoS users with those bits of hardware in place is only GBP 5 for the App..... and Bingo, you are wireless. Amazing !

 

Having harboured a desire to buy an ECoS since they were first launched, I'm finding it an increasingly attractive option, especially with the new colour version and the track plan touch operation of turnouts etc. TouchCab is yet another improvement that is pulling me towards this DCC system. Maybe I'm just a sucker for new toys, but what the heck!

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Tower application works out, especially as you are initially developing it for the Mac platform. Having recently decided to switch over from Windows to a Mac, I've got a particular interest in this.

 

Best regards

 

Ron

 

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[GoingUnderground]

Ron,

 

You're right, if someone already has the right model of ipod or iPhone and an ECoS, then they'd be daft not to try out TouchCab. However I haven't got an iPod or iPhone (wrong network) which is why I'm including the cost of iPod Touch and a router.

 

 

[Savoyard]

I have uploaded a new video on YouTube. I use TouchCab on my new exhibition layout I am building, it also features a sound Heljan Kestrel.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iny5jf3QHk

 

Peter

[Jens Vesterdahl]

Hi everyone and thank you for a warm welcome

 

I am totally overwhelmed by the response to the YouTube video, and of course I've also involved myself in this and other forums. I'll step back for a while to get some coding done, but you can always reach me through the TouchCab web site. I'll be reading here on and off, but don't expect me to post much for a while.

 

All the best,

Jens

[Jens Vesterdahl]

Okay I'm back.

 

I overestimated the coding job, and besides, emails are ticking in from all over. So who am I to try to control things - I might as well pick up as much information as possible at this time and see if some sort of roadmap emerges from the fire.

 

So - everyone:

Which digital system would you like TouchCab to support?

 

Best regards,

Jens

[Nigelcliffe]

Okay I'm back.

 

I overestimated the coding job, and besides, emails are ticking in from all over. So who am I to try to control things - I might as well pick up as much information as possible at this time and see if some sort of roadmap emerges from the fire.

 

So - everyone:

Which digital system would you like TouchCab to support?

 

Ideally interface into the JMRI suite to retrieve locos from roster, drive throttle, and drive other features. JMRI talks to most combinations of command station. JMRI is free and public domain, and I think you'd get help from the JMRI developers to produce an interface. After JMRI, look at RailRoad&Co and RocRail.

 

 

After JMRI (etc), then, in a perfect world, I'd like to see Digitrax, Lenz and NCE individually. But, in each case I wonder how you'd talk to them ? If its via WiFi, then each requires an adaptor to link WiFi to their command station bus, either new custom hardware (impractical?), or via a PC to interpret the instructions (and we're back to JMRI or RR&Co or RocRail).

 

 

regards

 

- Nigel

[Jens Vesterdahl]

Ideally interface into the JMRI suite to retrieve locos from roster, drive throttle, and drive other features. JMRI talks to most combinations of command station. JMRI is free and public domain, and I think you'd get help from the JMRI developers to produce an interface. After JMRI, look at RailRoad&Co and RocRail.

 

Nigel,

 

Thanks.

I've joined the JMRI group at Yahoo and started talking to the good folks there to see what's possible.

RocRail is an other option.

 

Jens

[two tone green]

Lenz & RR&Co. My son is about to get an Iphone so his ITouch is about to become redundant for him, my sticky fingers will latch onto it.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Jens, just stepping off topic for a moment; what possibilities do you think the much rumoured "Apple Tablet"* could create for model train control?

I'm thinking along the lines of replicating the ECoS screen, or some of it's functionality, on a handheld device, with the added ability to interface with applications like Tower, RR&co and suchlike.

 

So far, advanced systems like the ECoS, Commander and CS2 have been tied to console operation, but a third party device free of propriatry hardware development costs may be the way to provide walkabout capability at reasonable cost (assuming you already own the device). Hence TouchCab on the iPhone/iPod Touch.

I would have thought a bigger device like the rumoured "Tablet" could open up more possibilities? A sort of Super-TouchCab.

 

p.s. * For those who haven't heard of this, the device Apple are rumoured to be developing is thought to be a cross between the iPhone and a Netbook, but in a form and with functionality not previously seen on any other device. ...or so they say?

 

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[two tone green]

Have a look here for some details. http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/353296/apple-tablet-to-be-stylus-based

[Ron Ron Ron]

Have a look here for some details. http://www.pcpro.co....be-stylus-based

...or here in thse recent Guardian and Telegraph articles...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/aug/23/apple-tablet-steve-jobs-touchscreen

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/6244110/Apple-tablet-rumoured-for-January-19-launch.html

 

http://www.macuser.co.uk/openpic.php?name=/picture_library/dir_249/it_portal_pic_124918.jpg

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[Jens Vesterdahl]

Jens, just stepping off topic for a moment; what possibilities do you think the much rumoured "Apple Tablet"* could create for model train control?

I'm thinking along the lines of replicating the ECoS screen, or some of it's functionality, on a handheld device, with the added ability to interface with applications like Tower, RR&co and suchlike.

 

Interesting question.

 

First of all, I don't think there is going to be an Apple tablet.

 

You have to ask yourself, why would they want to make one? I don't think there is any doubt that Apple is looking for a way to corner the video download market like they did with iTunes and the music downloads. An iTablet would fit nicely into that scheme, but for practical use, it would have to come with some sort of iPocket that you could attach to the jacket or pants or shirt that you're wearing today (now there's a patent worth owning). Imagine being on the road with an iPhone three times the current size. Feasible? I think not.

Apple would have to ask themselves why people would want to buy one. I'm sure they would come to the same conclusion. They've been there, done that, probably even got the t-shirt (remember the Newton portable device) and it was not such a big screaming deal. Of course, with the iPhone OS, they're much better off than previously, but still ...

 

I see people on the train bringing their laptops to watch video. I bring my iPod. I don't see any room in between.

 

If an iTablet is real - in the shape of a really big iPod - it would be great for track diagrams, but merely in terms of overview. Would anyone like to walk around with such a big pad-thingy, operating the layout? You might as well use a laptop or a netbook. You could also make a cab interior with touch operated throttle handles and brake levers and everything, but the size would still be impractical.

 

No - I think the signs have been misinterpreted. Something will emerge from Cupertino and everybody will go ooh and ahh, why has nobody thought of that before? Expect a Mac with a touch screen magically hovering in mid-air with the ability to mix long drinks while welding under water, but not a tablet.

 

Jens

[GoingUnderground]

I have enjoyed this thread, especially Jens' contribution which gave me some hard thinking.

 

The ECoSControl Radio ("ECR") is real, there was light at the end of the tunnel and I now have what I am told is the only one in the UK, or at least the only one not still in transit from Germany. It works exactly as ESU promised. It loaded all my existing locos straight away from the ECoS without any input from me. I currently have less than 10 so I'm not troubled by the 100 loco limit, yet.

 

The loco icons do not come across on the radio link. Instead it uses generic pictograms, I believe ESU have said on the german users forum that they may eventually allow transfer of the pictograms as well. There isn't space for the Function pictograms though on the screen. you get a small square for each of the functions which becomes a large dot.

 

The joystick takes some getting used to especially with locos with a lot of inertia, I'm finding that I'm inclined to overshoot the desired speed unless I look at the ECR's display.

 

It came complete with a UK adaptor for the supplied battery charger. The only snag is that the when the US style pins on the charger are plugged into the supplied adaptor and that is then plugged into a normal UK 13 Amp socket, the red & green LEDs face straight downwards towards teh floor so you can't see them. Easy to fix, just plug it in to a power strip. The charger also takes AA batteries so it's bit fiddly to get the AAA cells that ECR uses to stay in place.

 

Installing the receiver in the ECoS is easy, apart from one very minor point. ESU tell you to plug the receiver into the spare ECoSSlot socket but the actual socket is recessed into the base so the receiver PCB itself gets in your line of sight even though the connecting pins are about 12mm (1/2in) long. ESU tell you to have the receiver card at a slight angle before you put the cover back on. This seems weird until I realised it was to make space for the side of the Slot cover to get between the base of the ECoS and the Receiver card, then it all makes sense. Apart from that the physical installation is as easy as ESU claim it to be.

 

Despite ESU releasing firmware upgrade 1.0.1 for the ECR, it came with that pre-loaded. I did have to upgrade the ECoS firmware to 3.0.2 but that went without a hitch, and took about 3 minutes, if that.

 

The manual supplied with it was the german one, I gather from SWD that ESU expect to have english language ones available in about 2 weeks, so I'm using Google Translate to do the business on the bits that I needed. On first turn on the ECR shows german, but there is the option to change and english was next available in the menu, so I didn't get to see what other languages it has available. I hope to get the whole of the manual translated in the next day or so, don't do german.

 

If you're an early adopter like me and you need the english translation PM me and I'll send you a copy when I've finished. It will be in MS Word format.

 

Was it worth the wait. For me "Yes it was.

 

Is it better or worse than TouchCab, I can't say as I haven't got TouchCab so I can't do a side by side comparison. Having got the ECR I'm not sure I'd want to do one. Scared of it being shown up against TouchCab? Quite possibly, but ECR is good so why risk undermining the pleasure of having it. Do I like the "playstation configuration" which it shares with Dynamis? Well it feels natural enough and I'm sure it will grow on me even more. But the feedom from the console without wires is wonderful.

 

It might even make me reappraise my plan to trade in my ECoS for the colour version when that becomes available in the 1st Quarter of next year (that's ESU's latest estimate according to their own User Forum). If I use the ECR then colour on the ECoS might become less of an issue. But we'll see as the Colour one on display at Warley did look very tasty, and it may eventually come down to how much I can sell my current ECoS for when I have to decide. One thing is certain though, I'm even more of a confirmed ESU/ECoS fan than I was before. Not cheap, but no regrets at all.

 

Also sincere thanks to SWD. Apart from being a very satisfied, if rather poorer, customer, I have no connection with them. I was just lucky enough to call them at the right time to ask if they might have the ECR for sale at Warley, and was fortunate that they received one on Friday which was in addition to the batch they were expecting for their existing confirmed UK orders. I have nothing but the highest praise for their customer service.

[Jens Vesterdahl]

Lenz & RR&Co. My son is about to get an Iphone so his ITouch is about to become redundant for him, my sticky fingers will latch onto it.

 

Hello again.

 

Two tone green - you got it!

For the record, I'm going for Lenz and XpressNet next.

 

Best regards,

Jens

[two tone green]

An early Christmas present

 

Thanks

[Ron Ron Ron]

Jens, just stepping off topic for a moment; what possibilities do you think the much rumoured "Apple Tablet"* could create for model train control?

I'm thinking along the lines of replicating the ECoS screen, or some of it's functionality, on a handheld device, with the added ability to interface with applications like Tower, RR&co and suchlike......

Interesting question.

 

First of all, I don't think there is going to be an Apple tablet.....

Jens

 

Hello Jens.......

 

http://www.apple.com/ipad/

 

 

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[Jens Vesterdahl]

Hello Jens.......

 

http://www.apple.com/ipad/

 

 

.

 

 

Ahem ... yes ... I've been watching this thread for exactly that comment. Oh, the amount of mockery in not saying anything

As a product, I still don't get it, though. Perhaps that's why Apple is making a ton of money and I don't ...

 

For train control, it's a dream, obviously. It may not be practical for walking around, but some people have already suggested building the thing right into the layout as a sort of stationary control unit, and ... well, I guess the all nice people here can dream up all kinds of MR related uses for the iPad. Personally I'll wait and see.

I watched the keynote video from the product presentation, and I think the legendary "Reality Distortion Field" was missing. For those of you that don't know, the RDF is something that Steve Jobs throws out at all product presentations, and everyone caught in the field goes "COOL" and runs out and buys whatever Steve tells them to buy. Not this time. The iPad is not a phone, so it's not something you'd probably want to have anyway. Most reactions I've seen are more "Er ..." than "ooh" and "aah", and I think it will be a while before the iPad catches on like the iPhone did.

 

I have previously announced that eventually TouchCab will eventually show track plans, and while this feature has been pushed a bit into the future, I don't see why I shouldn't at least prepare the app for a bit more screen real estate when the time comes. I do have other things on the agenda for TouchCab right now, however, so I'll sit back for a while and see how the iPad does in the market.

 

Best regards

Jens

[Ron Ron Ron]

Thanks for responding Jens.

 

i've been waiting to throw that one at you for a couple of months now. You did rather set yourself up for it.

 

Only joking of course.

 

Keep us posted on developments. :icon_thumbsup2:

 

 

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[Jens Vesterdahl]

Thanks for responding Jens.

 

i've been waiting to throw that one at you for a couple of months now. You did rather set yourself up for it.

 

No problem, Ron.

When I make statements like that, I'm fully prepared to end up with eggs in my face.

I could have ended up looking like a brilliant prophet, mind you. Well worth the risk

 

Jens

[two tone green]

Hi Jens,

 

I think Apple have missed an oppertunity with the IPad. Got a lot of things missing off it. Flash for one. Every thing else is an add on, even USB needs an adapter. Also it uses a mini sim which few companies use for the 3G connection.

 

Will tke a lot of pushing to get the non nerds to buy it. Perhaps like your no Ipad comment I will be wrong as well. Watch out for Ipad 2 soon.

 

Any way, how is the Lenz version coming of your nice little gadget.

[melmerby]

The "must haves" will lap it up like every other new gadget!

 

Can't understand why the last thing people ask when buying a new mobile is - "How does it work as a phone?"

 

Keith

[two tone green]

One thing it is not is a phone. Can only run one application at a time as well which is ridiculous.

 

Sorry, this is off topic I think.

[Ron Ron Ron]

There's a lot of similar comment on various computer and gadget forums, but the mistake I think people are making is confusing the iPad with a laptop computer or cheap netbook.

Steve Jobs made it quite clear in his presentation that the iPad isn't intended to be either of those and certainly isn't intended to be a replacement for a laptop or PC. This is intended to be a new type of device that sits between ordinary computers and smart phones. A lot of people seem to have difficulty getting their heads around that concept.

 

Sure, the omission of Flash is a potential failing, but USB is well provided for, albeit with either an adapter plug or USB-to-Apple cable but that's no different from an iPhone/iPod really.

MultiTasking? ....it's not, nor is it intended to be a laptop or desktop computer. Clearly millions of people are using media and accessing the net through Smart Phones and early Netbooks without the need for multi-tasking. Apple see this product as a way of enhancing that experience without having to use a normal PC or laptop.

 

From what I can see, Apple have never rested on their laurels with their products and have constantly updated and improved them. I predict that the iPad will also be improved and upgraded over the next few years (more powerful processor, increased memory, new technology screen that flips between e-Ink and regular LCD etc, etc.). If they've got the market right, expect this device to get better.

 

The bosses of HP and Intel recently stated that there is a huge market for "consumption of media" through the internet; something that regular computers are not optimised for. A new generation of devices like this iPad could answer that demand in a more optimised form than what has gone before and the huge success of the iPhone, iPod Touch, the Apps store and iTunes has demonstrated that people have already taken to this way of accessing the internet without a "computer" getting in the way. No surprise that the other manufacturers and IT giants are now busy trying to copy this model.

 

I think if you've experienced using an Internet Radio or Internet enabled TV, you can understand the iPad a little better.

 

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[NoggintheNog]

certainly isn't intended to be a replacement for a laptop or PC. This is intended to be a new type of device that sits between ordinary computers and smart phones. A lot of people seem to have difficulty getting their heads around that concept.

 

 

 

 

Don't wish to take the thread violently off topic, but I think the problem is it is priced to compete with laptops and PC's , thus the comparison will inevitably always be made, and for the majority of people, it will always come up short in the comparison.

 

Its targeted at 'between smart phone and laptop' and priced above both.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Its targeted at 'between smart phone and laptop' and priced above both.

It's not cheap (US price range is between the equiv. of UKL 300 and UKL 550 ), but don't forget many Smart Phones are in the same price range without a mobile contract.

Note that e-Readers, which are one-trick ponies, are priced just below too (the Kindle DX is priced at around UKL 305).

 

The other new style tablet computers recently revealed (e.g. HP Slate, Dell Mini 5 etc) are expected to cost from UKL 600 up to around UKL 1200.

 

...and yes we're well off topic ! :icon_redface:

 

Incidentally, the Dell mini 5 may make a good DCC handset, being not too big.

 

$$

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