formation of silver bullet china clay trains

[chinaclayfan]

Hi everyone this is my first time on the forum so my apologies for any mistakes I make

Quite simply would you have been able to see formations made up of clean and dirty wagons in the same train .

Having looked at endless amounts of photos it seems to me that formations were one or the other , unless anyone knows differently .

My modelling era is 1993 /1994 .thankyou

[BR traction instructor]

In 1989 (I note your later time period) the newly introduced service ran as 6Z55 with a single Laira 37/5 hauling a mix of around 6 new, shiny Caledonian paper mill silver bullets and a few work stained Nacco examples (around 10 tanks in total in the consist)…these were at the back in a Summer 1989 Irvine - Burngullow working that I photographed nr Dumfries. A clean 37670 in Railfreight red diamond livery was the loco.

 

BeRTIe

Edited January 4, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[chinaclayfan]

thank~you so much . I always thought it improbable that they would all stay shiny for the same amount of time . Again thanks for your help

[Rivercider]

8 hours ago, chinaclayfan said:

Hi everyone this is my first time on the forum so my apologies for any mistakes I make

Quite simply would you have been able to see formations made up of clean and dirty wagons in the same train .

Having looked at endless amounts of photos it seems to me that formations were one or the other , unless anyone knows differently .

My modelling era is 1993 /1994 .thankyou

Welcome to RMweb,

 

I think that originally an effort was made to keep the tanks clean, your 1993/94 date was about the time that the cleaning regime was relaxed, or abandoned. Like you I have found photos of either all clean, or all stained tanks. Photos from 1993 show shiny tanks, photos from 1994 onwards show tanks getting progressively more stained,

 

cheers

[chinaclayfan]

Thanks for your help rivercider A friend of mine now seems to think there is a photo of the Burngullow to Irvine train approaching Preston with half shiny half stained wagons . I,ve looked for this for a while but cannot seem to find it , anyway thanks for your help

cheers

[Rivercider]

Since you have mentioned Preston as a location for a possible photo I had a quick look on Flickr. There are a number of photos of the silver bullets in or around Preston. In some of the shots I wonder if it is a trick of the light which appears to show clean and dirty tanks.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45021513@N08/49791703403/in/photolist-2iRVuGT-6p6owp-S5YpRD-2eofvXt-24T2GGZ-2iRvnyv-DykiW1-RdfvB7-MXCtXJ-2e6Jwfc-Qyijzf-XKkTEQ-2j6dwZb-TJ81Ej-aYHR3H-2k3oVPp-xG2zDf-29CZsNJ-dXzeaG-YGTiWL-2ak36io-KkRy4w-Yg5FQg-L3bNhi-26QKML5-qwoWpB-pYXcM8-Rt9Vjr-GCxX7J-pX2uyo-CnTy2K-X6ZbJy-YFZULk-26J3hAW-2mCG6N7-25Tp9gc-sjzq7Z-85y8e9-PgXFax-oxpG3B-aYtyMH-239e19e-gjnTn4-j3jPyk-24Jczy4-xqVo2J-ThwXHQ-ovsrcE-bb5LC6-enLRyr

This is a Flick photo by Ala Hart from 1989 when all the tanks were clean,

 

cheers

[Fat Controller]

54 minutes ago, Rivercider said:

Since you have mentioned Preston as a location for a possible photo I had a quick look on Flickr. There are a number of photos of the silver bullets in or around Preston. In some of the shots I wonder if it is a trick of the light which appears to show clean and dirty tanks.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45021513@N08/49791703403/in/photolist-2iRVuGT-6p6owp-S5YpRD-2eofvXt-24T2GGZ-2iRvnyv-DykiW1-RdfvB7-MXCtXJ-2e6Jwfc-Qyijzf-XKkTEQ-2j6dwZb-TJ81Ej-aYHR3H-2k3oVPp-xG2zDf-29CZsNJ-dXzeaG-YGTiWL-2ak36io-KkRy4w-Yg5FQg-L3bNhi-26QKML5-qwoWpB-pYXcM8-Rt9Vjr-GCxX7J-pX2uyo-CnTy2K-X6ZbJy-YFZULk-26J3hAW-2mCG6N7-25Tp9gc-sjzq7Z-85y8e9-PgXFax-oxpG3B-aYtyMH-239e19e-gjnTn4-j3jPyk-24Jczy4-xqVo2J-ThwXHQ-ovsrcE-bb5LC6-enLRyr

This is a Flick photo by Ala Hart from 1989 when all the tanks were clean,

 

cheers

In more recent times, since the tanks started running from Antwerpen to Irvine, I've noticed a couple of clean wagon in each train; I would guess that these have been the ones that have been most recently stopped for maintenance.

[chinaclayfan]

Thank you to both of you for trying to help me , I,ve had another look myself and the best I can come up with is slight differences within the consist .

So I think I,ll give up on my original idea and try and find someone to swop my stained wagons with . Thanks again .

[Phil Bullock]

Talking to a friend who used to man Tram Inn signal box the formation of 6S55 was somewhat variable north of Abergavenny….. it split on at least one occasion.

[BR traction instructor]

If that was a planned event Phil, it would be reflected in the WTT, both the timing lag and the change of trailing weight.

 

I suspect an out of course situation…an ailing 37 (load reduced), defective wagon brakes or wagon hot axlebox activation…maybe even a WILD (wheel impact load detection) due to pitting/flatting of the wheel tread surface.

 

BeRTIe

Edited January 7, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[Phil Bullock]

Just now, BR traction instructor said:

If that was a planned event Phil, it would be reflected in the WTT, both the timing lag and the change of trailing weight.

 

BeRTIe

It wasnt planned! 

[BR traction instructor]

This is the Summer 1989 working of 6Z55 referred to in my post above…37670 passing Thornhill nr Dumfries with the Irvine to Burngullow clay slurry empties. Two weathered NACCO tanks at the rear, four newly built ECC Caledonian paper mill ‘bullets’ at the front.

 

BeRTIe

Edited January 26, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[chinaclayfan]

Hello traction instructor , what a brilliant photo of 37670 thanks for your help with this subject . I,ve been looking through a lot of different posts about china clay layouts and I think I,ve been getting a bit precious about what you can run and what you cant run . So I think I will run clean and weathered together , thanks for everyones help with this

[The Pilotman]

If you have a look at this video: 

 

 

at 1h42 there’s a shot of the loaded train leaving Burngullow with a mix of clean and dirty wagons. However, if (as you say) you’re getting a bit precious about what you can and can’t run, you might have to overlook the fact that the wagons are of two different types and it’s only the dirty ones (TOPS code ICA) that are the type that Dapol make (the clean wagons in the featured train being TOPS code TIA).

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by The Pilotman

[chinaclayfan]

Hi , thanks for your message . I think I will run clean and dirty wagons together , I think the expression is rule one applies . ( I hope i,ve got that right ) anyway thanks for your help . By the way thanks for showing me the dvd which i had,not known about before and the other two in the series .