Hornby 2022 Range - General discussion

[rovex]

Hi All

 

Andy has allowed me to start a thread for general discussion of the 2022 range, he has asked that any model specific comments be put on the relevant model thread as to avoid duplication.

 

So here goes, 

 

Well my 2022 guesses were as bad as ever:

 

No Saint

No Coronation Scot stock in general use livery

No new dining cars (unless they presumably form part of the Coronation train)

Only new freight wagon is the GWR Loriot (and that only as a spin off from their T*tfield range)

no new siphon or full brake NPCS

 

About the only thing I got right is that you are going to need a scale chain from a steam roller to couple their Thunderbolt to the Loriot, this seems to be shown on their mock ups/photos of the film set.

 

Moving on This whole range has just left me cold and I really don't understand what market Hornby are aiming themselves out other than it is not me.

 

All the Triang, Hornby Dublo, film set releases seem to be aimed at the collector not the jobbing modeller like myself, and are unlikely to be ever taken out of the box. That's not modelling!

 

Arguably most of the Coronation set and the previous Coronation Scot sets sold, are unlikely to be run in anger on many train sets. 

 

So are they giving up on the ordinary modeller?

 

That said it doesn't sit with their toy range aimed at bringing new people into model railways (according to them).

 

Simon said in the overly long presentation that if they is anything we want them to do we should tell them and they will do it -  as and when they see fit. Rather hollow words in my opinion. I think next year I won't even bother trying to guess what Hornby is going to issue, at least then I won't be disappointed.

 

SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI

 

[Johan DC]

If I am not mistaken, on social media, I have seen lots of requests for both the Coronation and the Coronation Scot.

And since the later sold out, why not make a second set? I'm sure the Coronation will sell out as well, one coming my way.

I'm also not impressed with their freight range, but that is not a new one. 

Each year they bring out more that I would like than I can afford, and I'm a third generation modeltrain enthousiast, who runs his trains.

I'm sorry if there is nothing in it for you, but for me, who prefers pre-war LMS and LNER, I can not complain.

For the collectors and merchandise stock, I think these are the items that pay for the more exotic ones (W1, Turbomotive?)

 

 

Johan

 

 

[Global]

Personally I think Hornby should stick to Railroad and Playtrain as this is something where they can capitalise on a market they almost have to themselves! 
 

After last year’s announcements I emailed SK regarding the chances of a BR Blue 31/4 and the reply gave the impression I was certainly not alone in my request (actually I would like around 10 in total!) however we get yet another unrefurbished 31/1!

 

Maybe we all need to form our own fake manufacturers and announce what we are releasing (need!) as Hornby would no doubt release them straight away if they think you’re stepping on their toes! Lol. 
 

All partly irrelevant now as I’ve come to the conclusion not to buy anything further from them regardless due their bullying practices!

[wombatofludham]

Well, it seems like a lot of people on this forum have fully functioning crystal balls and if they wouldn't mind PM'ing me with tomorrow's Euromillions numbers I'd be grateful.

Frankly I found the presentation a bit buttock clenching, and when Mr K said he didn't think diesels were as charismatic as steam, all I can say is a tirade of decidedly non-Welsh Anglo Saxon was hurled at the TV (I was watching the video on the telly).

Looking objectively, it does look a bit like Hornby have been stung by the criticisms many of us have been raising about the archaic 8pin DCC fittings and the lack of balance between steam and non-steam ranges.  OK, Hornby have just discovered the Joy of 21 when the rest of the world is moving onto Plux22, but it at least recognises that DCC is here, and they need to up their game especially if they are playing catch up to Bachmann with added value play features.  

The FLIRT was probably an unsurprising surprise, I had a suspicion one was likely to be forthcoming as they are interesting and quirky - and being bi-modes, theoretically ticks a couple of boxes.  The "retool" of the VEP was a surprise, it amused me when Mr K. made reference to second hand values of the old units with flaws, and fair play, he did admit the original had been a bit of a lemon.  Perhaps Hornby do have someone who has an eBay account after all.  Shame they are launching the new tool with post privatisation liveries but there again they are attractive schemes.

I'm not convinced by the steam generator.  Water vapour or smoke cannot scale down and it left me underwhelmed.

So, the gradual drift to 21 pin is good, passive provision for speakers is good (re-engineer the 87 please to allow easy DCC sound fitment) and early signs of some overdue attention to their D+E range is welcomed even if Mr K came across as someone who doesn't quite understand the market and is happier talking Terriers.

Negatives:  Titfieldgate.  Hornby are seriously annoying the modelling fraternity with this constant willy-waving towards others making stuff they see as "theirs" and to possibly breach licencing deals really does seem desperate.  Definitely Rapido need to buy up and brand some popcorn machines to sell whilst we settle down to watch the drama.

Still obsessed with big steamy things.  That said the LNER Coronation is a nice train but not for me.  The Triang themed trainsets seems a bit of a last gasp at prising grey pounds from the over 60s, and will never be used in anger.  The Hornby Dublo themed stuff is also another attempt at getting the grey pound before it dries up, although as I used to live near Lichfield that blue Stanier job would be nice.  Clearly at the moment it's a cash cow for Hornby and as some of the money raised has clearly made it's way over to non-steam investment, I hope it carries on a bit longer.  If Mr K is reading this, can you do a modern spec Hornby Dublo branded AL1?  I know the original model was plastic but a repro with a proper shape, detailing and finish to match the steam range would liberate my slightly greying pounds.

Prices.  Say no more.

So, overall a curate's egg, but one which seems to be marking a shift in approach from Hornby and a dawning realisation that they have been left behind in some areas not just by Barwell but also new competitors.  

[James Harrison]

I wasn't expecting anything I would actually need- pre-Grouping is as we all know a niche area- but there's nothing in the new releases lists that I could say I want, either.

[Miss Prism]

There's a lot of warmed up old rubbish at high prices.

[Otis JB]

Something to note, I have been scrolling through the comments on a number of range launch videos and as you might imagine the anger and criticism is to an extent I have never seen before for any manufacture. That is, on all videos except the official one on the Hornby Model Railways Youtube channel; I haven't found a single overwhelmingly negative comment and barely a mention of price. Draw your own conclusions but it struck me as rather odd. 

[James Harrison]

14 minutes ago, Otis JB said:

Something to note, I have been scrolling through the comments on a number of range launch videos and as you might imagine the anger and criticism is to an extent I have never seen before for any manufacture. That is, on all videos except the official one on the Hornby Model Railways Youtube channel; I haven't found a single overwhelmingly negative comment and barely a mention of price. Draw your own conclusions but it struck me as rather odd. 

Sounds like their social media team on the lookout for anything that isn't gushing praise...

[Otis JB]

10 minutes ago, James Harrison said:

Sounds like their social media team on the lookout for anything that isn't gushing praise...

My thoughts exactly...

[The Johnster]

Well, what were you expecting?  I wan't expecting much from red box this year and I haven't been dissappointed; we are a niche part of a market composed largely of trainsetters and collectors, nowt wrong with that but the iron laws of marketing mean that our requests are not prioritised.  Hornby want to make stuff that they can sell and make a  profit out of, and listening to the likes of us will be quick road to the recievers.

 

Turbomotive and Beavertail predicted accurately, Loriot (I like a Loriot a lot) a no-brainer since it's being made anyway for Tatmeadow Lightning or whatevs, Flirt and 6-coupled Sentinel sensible introductions, a lot of people have been demanding a retooled Black 5; sit back and watch them complain about the price.  Smoke generator seems a bit gimmicky, as do the the flickering fireboxes, but that's the way the market is going deze daze. Triang Railways is a nostalgia marketing ploy on the back of the successful and overpriced Hornby Dublo stuff.

 

Are H really still churning out new 7-plankers with the wrong wheelbase?

 

Oh, and, nothing there for me...

[30368]

I think that Hornby (and all the main suppliers of ready to run) do a great job. I have to say though that the pricing of the, mainly, warmed up steam outline range is a little high......

 

Our hobby is not alone in this "post" covid, post Brexit price hike. It seems that many companies are taking advantage and going for it. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out!

 

Meanwhile the going rate for a steam outline loco seems to be edging towards £300 fairly quickly. At that price, building a loco from a kit will be cheap(er) now and keeps a number of small UK based suppliers in business and... most importantly, is very rewarding.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[APOLLO]

Remember this ?

 

 

Poor lad would need an armed guard on the way to the model shop now !!!!

 

Brit15

 

 

[The Johnster]

3 minutes ago, 30368 said:

At that price, building a loco from a kit will be cheap(er) now and keeps a number of small UK based suppliers in business and... most importantly, is very rewarding.

 

I suspect that if the high price of RTR persuades people to try kits, modern expectations of detail will make new kits nearly as expensive as RTR, eroding the kit advantage,  The days of K's whitemetal lumps on block chassis, or Wills' on crude RTR chassis, with no detail below the running plate and no flanges on the centre drivers, are well in the past.  Only etched brass/nickel silver fold up will compete, and these look off-puttingly difficult for those 'progressing' from RTR and without soldering experience (they're not, I've built one and if I can do it with my piggy little fingers, so can you).  Many modellers do not have the time, skillsets, or inclination for kits, sadly, and if a decent model of something I want is available RTR I'll grit my teeth, ignore the complaints from my poor wallet, and suck it up. 

 

I'll build a kit if it is something I want that isn't available in RTR form, but as far as locos go this is Southeastern's 1854, not up to modern RTR standards and with boiler skirts.  I'd like a 44xx, but the K's is no longer available and the chassis was, frankly, rubbish, and a Collett 1938 31xx, which I am attempting as a conversion using RTR bits.  Decent kits are still more expensive than RTR by the time you've completed them, most never get completed, and if better are usually only marginally so, plus there is a chance you'll mess it up. 

 

My eyesight and hand/eye co-ordination are not what they were, and it's RTR for me unless there's no alternative, and in practice there's often no alternative, but I agree that the satisfaction of a successfully built smooth running kit is considerable. 

[Global]

29 minutes ago, 30368 said:

I think that Hornby (and all the main suppliers of ready to run) do a great job. I have to say though that the pricing of the, mainly, warmed up steam outline range is a little high......

 

Our hobby is not alone in this "post" covid, post Brexit price hike. It seems that many companies are taking advantage and going for it. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out!

 

Meanwhile the going rate for a steam outline loco seems to be edging towards £300 fairly quickly. At that price, building a loco from a kit will be cheap(er) now and keeps a number of small UK based suppliers in business and... most importantly, is very rewarding.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Steam not my thing, but the Accurascale Manor is £169.99 or £259.99 with sound for something far superior to anything Hornby has ever produced! 
 

A great looking model at a price that doesn’t leave you feeling robbed… unlike Hornby - I’m sure SK should wear a balaclava! Lol. 

[Steamport Southport]

Maybe people may like to consider there are still hundreds of models delayed from last year.

 

455 models still to come according to Kernow.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/c/765/Hornby-2022-Range

 

 

Jason

[Big James]

Tbh this is the first time I can genuinely say that there is nothing for me. Although the release of new models is always a cause for celebration. Just seems like Hornby are missing a few open goals. But how long before one of smaller manufacturers gobble them up.

Big James

[APOLLO]

14 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Maybe people may like to consider there are still hundreds of models delayed from last year.

 

455 models still to come according to Kernow.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/c/765/Hornby-2022-Range

 

 

Jason

 

There are lots and lots of HUGE problems over in China, and are increasing daily. Producing model trains is the least of their problems. I don't expect to see many of today's announced models in the shops (or pre orders fulfilled) this year.

 

And this is not confined to our trains either. The chip shortage is not getting better, this affects almost everything electronic. Google "China Production Problems" brings a multitude of reports in all manufacturing areas, very few showing optimism.

 

https://techmonitor.ai/technology/chip-shortage-tsmc-samsung-us-uk-taiwan-automotive

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/01/economy/china-manufacturing-pmi-covid-intl-hnk/index.html

 

Too many eggs in one basket.

 

Brit15

 

 

[Great Eastern Lady]

Would have liked a Holden F5 , but I’m happy with the Terrier 150 pack

[Otis JB]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

a lot of people have been demanding a retooled Black 5; sit back and watch them complain about the price.  Smoke generator seems a bit gimmicky, as do the the flickering fireboxes, but that's the way the market is going deze daze.

 

I understand that a new-tooled super-detailed model will of course command a higher price than the original but there is a limit and I think people are right to call it out. I personally think value for money is above all else; you shouldn't start with a high price and add extra features to justify it. Affordable models with the detail levels of five to six years ago would do me fine, I'd rather have the extra cash and add details myself instead of pay more than they're really worth to have them factory applied. A little DIY modelling never made anyone unhappy! 

[Legend]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

Remember this ?

 

 

Poor lad would need an armed guard on the way to the model shop now !!!!

 

Brit15

 

 

Do you have a R186 Signal box?  What you don’t know if you’re a Tier 1 supplier and if you have any allocated ?  It is likely to be winter 2023 before any arrive from China , oh ok ,I’m about 2 years away from needing armed guards then !  Yeah things might be a bit different. These days .

 

[Vistisen]

51 minutes ago, Global said:

Steam not my thing, but the Accurascale Manor is £169.99 or £259.99 with sound for something far superior to anything Hornby has ever produced! 
 

A great looking model at a price that doesn’t leave you feeling robbed… unlike Hornby - I’m sure SK should wear a balaclava! Lol. 

I really hope so as one is on the way to me. But I would like to point out that silmilar statements were be made about DJM ... until they wern't being made anymore. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

[Global]

2 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

I really hope so as one is on the way to me. But I would like to point out that silmilar statements were be made about DJM ... until they wern't being made anymore. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

I think DJM wore a cowboy hat rather than a balaclava? Or maybe it was both! Haha. 

[Legend]

I thought overall it lacked the punch of previous years  but is still quite interesting 

 

The Titfield thing is incredible . Quite why they felt they needed to bring announcements forward from 10 to 7 and then back to 8 given that really they were announcing the “inspired by” thing anyway and presumably think Rapido agreement is of no relevance to their own actions , was beyond me . Made them look stupid and reactive.

 

Reactive: well the Black 5 was on the cards . Everyone says it needs an upgrade . They had to do it or have it snatched away, they still might !  Turbomotive again highly tipped as was Coronation stock . I actually predicted the Flirt last year but forgot about it this time round! Again 31 in blue long called out for. And the VEP. People on here have been saying they are going for a fortune on eBay , so it looks like they listened .  I have to laugh at Simon Kohler emphasising at the end of every video that people should write with ideas . Is that because he is running out of them , or doesn’t really have much of an idea on more recent motive power ? 
 

I suppose the steam is innovative but I’m DC so won’t apply to me 

 

there’s a lot of interest this year but no real ooh I fancy that items for me . Might still be interested in 5 car APT with the black window surrounds .

 

The major reaction I see on YouTube is on pricing . I know the reasons they are going up but I think the issue is there now really is a ceiling which has been breached 

[Outrunn]

4 hours ago, Johan DC said:

If I am not mistaken, on social media, I have seen lots of requests for both the Coronation and the Coronation Scot.

And since the later sold out, why not make a second set? I'm sure the Coronation will sell out as well, one coming my way.

I'm also not impressed with their freight range, but that is not a new one. 

Each year they bring out more that I would like than I can afford, and I'm a third generation modeltrain enthousiast, who runs his trains.

I'm sorry if there is nothing in it for you, but for me, who prefers pre-war LMS and LNER, I can not complain.

For the collectors and merchandise stock, I think these are the items that pay for the more exotic ones (W1, Turbomotive?)

 

 

Johan

 

 

personally i was hoping for non Coronation LMS pre war rolling stock in typical LMS colours, i recently got the Princess Elizebth & Duchess of Hamilton, both amazing loco's, and the only suitable rolling stock from Hornby is a very far cry from their range of LNER Teak Coaches, its not even close. 
While the coronation coaches are nice, they only fit the blue Coronation Class loco's, nothing else.

[Outrunn]

48 minutes ago, Legend said:

I thought overall it lacked the punch of previous years  but is still quite interesting 

 

The Titfield thing is incredible . Quite why they felt they needed to bring announcements forward from 10 to 7 and then back to 8 given that really they were announcing the “inspired by” thing anyway and presumably think Rapido agreement is of no relevance to their own actions , was beyond me . Made them look stupid and reactive.

 

Reactive: well the Black 5 was on the cards . Everyone says it needs an upgrade . They had to do it or have it snatched away, they still might !  Turbomotive again highly tipped as was Coronation stock . I actually predicted the Flirt last year but forgot about it this time round! Again 31 in blue long called out for. And the VEP. People on here have been saying they are going for a fortune on eBay , so it looks like they listened .  I have to laugh at Simon Kohler emphasising at the end of every video that people should write with ideas . Is that because he is running out of them , or doesn’t really have much of an idea on more recent motive power ? 
 

I suppose the steam is innovative but I’m DC so won’t apply to me 

 

there’s a lot of interest this year but no real ooh I fancy that items for me . Might still be interested in 5 car APT with the black window surrounds .

 

The major reaction I see on YouTube is on pricing . I know the reasons they are going up but I think the issue is there now really is a ceiling which has been breached 

For me the price is a deal breaker for a lot of these loco's, The Turbomotive is nice but i simply cannot justify buying it at the price it is if i want the DCC version. I will likely get the Prince of Wales smoke version as i had the regular one anyway on preorder, but it wont be a regular thing at that price. i could get 3 great loco's for that price. 
Sadly for me the pricing has jumped the shark this year, which is a shame