Hornby 2022 Range - General discussion

[SamThomas]

19 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

What is $18,000 minus $800 (the lows and high quoted)? Over £12,000 - converted to sterling to confuse you or help you as you see fit.

Thanks Mr York - I appreciate your time in confirming that my maths are clearly worse than I thought.

[railroadbill]

2 hours ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

Hi Sam,

 

A couple of years ago it was around $800, not £5000. That was for a forty foot container. Realistically $800 would add nothing to the price of anything but the cost would be factored in. 

 

Now  as much as $18000.

 

All relative, but if you could fit 18,000 items of rolling stock in the same container and l can’t envisage that amount. It would add $1 to very item, if only 9,000 items, then two dollars etc.

 

Some years we would import PWC’s (jet ski’s) into the UK at around £300 for a twenty foot container. Held six in their shipping crates. Price for one was retail around £8000. At today’s shipping costs that would add $3000 to each jet ski.  If today’s price is £12000 for a jet ski, imagine adding $3000 to a preorder! 

 

Don’t think any company in our trade can swallow these price increases.

 

What is really scary is shipping the likes of balsa wood. Have you seen how much that has gone up? 

Re balsa wood, I was told by a local model shop that balsa had become very expensive (regardless of shipping) because it's used as the core of wind turbine blades. Chinese companies, as the main manufacturers of these, have bought up very large supplies on the world market.  So balsa has become a very high demand product. Sounds plausible.

[The balsa sheets in my garage have no doubt become very valuable...]

 

[SamThomas]

1 minute ago, railroadbill said:

Re balsa wood, I was told by a local model shop that balsa had become very expensive (regardless of shipping) because it's used as the core of wind turbine blades. Chinese companies, as the main manufacturers of these, have bought up very large supplies on the world market.  So balsa has become a very high demand product. Sounds plausible.

[The balsa sheets in my garage have no doubt become very valuable...]

 

Interesting - I thought that wind turbine blades were hollow, being made of some sort of composite material (which is not recyclable at the present time, but that's another story). Or is balsa wood used for smaller blades ?

[RJS1977]

From Wikipedia "Balsa wood is often used as a core material in composites; for example, the blades of many wind turbines are partly of balsa." ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochroma )

 

[railroadbill]

5 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Interesting - I thought that wind turbine blades were hollow, being made of some sort of composite material (which is not recyclable at the present time, but that's another story). Or is balsa wood used for smaller blades ?

 

Not to say they all are or will continue to be but for the moment....

Edited January 16, 2022 by railroadbill

[younGGuns7]

35 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

What is $18,000 minus $800 (the lows and high quoted)? Over £12,000 - converted to sterling to confuse you or help you as you see fit.

Not sure when they were 800USD it costs nearly that to get from UK port to our yard. I imported from China in June 21 and they were 2900USD which was about the costs but it is correct that they are 18000 USD as quoted for a 40footer on Friday. I am having to add 15% onto all our goods to cover this cost or we have to take an 18K hit on bottom line so it gives you an idea what the additional costs are currently and that is just one cost increase 

[Widnes Model Centre]

19 minutes ago, railroadbill said:

Re balsa wood, I was told by a local model shop that balsa had become very expensive (regardless of shipping) because it's used as the core of wind turbine blades. Chinese companies, as the main manufacturers of these, have bought up very large supplies on the world market.  So balsa has become a very high demand product. Sounds plausible.

[The balsa sheets in my garage have no doubt become very valuable...]

 

 

Where do you live and is the garage locked?

l was also told by a neighbour about the wind turbines and he did say how much each one cost. Can’t remember exactly but it was in the £ millions. 

About 12 months, give or take a year or so ago. Had a balsa sheet priced at £2.67. Re stock price was £5.76 exact same size.

I can remember when 2s 6d , that was half a crown wasn’t it? Would buy enough to make a large boat including the glue. Bought from the Handyman’s Supermarket in Smithdown Road, Liverpool. A few streets down from my favourite model shop. Sorry Norman, l only got so much pocket money.

[Widnes Model Centre]

10 minutes ago, younGGuns7 said:

Not sure when they were 800USD it costs nearly that to get from UK port to our yard. I imported from China in June 21 and they were 2900USD which was about the costs but it is correct that they are 18000 USD as quoted for a 40footer on Friday. I am having to add 15% onto all our goods to cover this cost or we have to take an 18K hit on bottom line so it gives you an idea what the additional costs are currently and that is just one cost increase 

 

The $800 l was told was the price in 2019, pre pandemic. Sounds about right.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Widnes Model Centre

[spamcan61]

OK, let's do some rough costing here.

 

Volume of typical Hornby loco/coach box is 1200 cm3 = 0.0012 m3 (~860 boxes per cubic metre)

 

Internal volume of 40 foot general container is 66m3 says Google (more for High Cube)

 

So, roughly 55000 boxes per container, let's say  75% packing efficiency (allowing for outer boxes, pallets and imperfect fit in container) brings that down to 41000 boxes per container.

 

At 12000 GBP price increase that's 30p per loco/coach.

 

So, either my maths is horribly wrong, or international shipping price increase itself is not significant on an item now retailing at 200 quid plus.

 

From Hornby's point of view they've doubtless noticed that many items sell out in advance regardless  of price, they are still living on borrowed money, so they'll charge what they think the market will bear, irrespective of any actual cost increase to them.

 

[younGGuns7]

10 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

OK, let's do some rough costing here.

 

Volume of typical Hornby loco/coach box is 1200 cm3 = 0.0012 m3 (~860 boxes per cubic metre)

 

Internal volume of 40 foot general container is 66m3 says Google (more for High Cube)

 

So, roughly 55000 boxes per container, let's say  75% packing efficiency (allowing for outer boxes, pallets and imperfect fit in container) brings that down to 41000 boxes per container.

 

At 12000 GBP price increase that's 30p per loco/coach.

 

So, either my maths is horribly wrong, or international shipping price increase itself is not significant on an item now retailing at 200 quid plus.

 

From Hornby's point of view they've doubtless noticed that many items sell out in advance regardless  of price, they are still living on borrowed money, so they'll charge what they think the market will bear, irrespective of any actual cost increase to them.

 

You perhaps have missed the news recently, as I stated this is one cost increase, there is increased cost of wages in China, energy costs - currently they can only work 3 days a week due to shortages etc, raw material costs - anything to do with plastic as gone through the roof, coal has tripled. We have seen products increase in price 4 times since July last year 

[spamcan61]

5 minutes ago, younGGuns7 said:

You perhaps have missed the news recently, as I stated this is one cost increase, there is increased cost of wages in China, energy costs - currently they can only work 3 days a week due to shortages etc, raw material costs - anything to do with plastic as gone through the roof, coal has tripled. We have seen products increase in price 4 times since July last year 

I'm not claiming shipping is the only factor, but it's widely assumed to be a significant factor so I've quantified that factor. I'm painfully aware from my day job what a nightmare it is sourcing from the Far East currently, but I find it interesting to look behind the headline statements and assess the real impact of the various factors, most of which aren't as easy to find in the public domain as shipping costs.

[younGGuns7]

4 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

I'm not claiming shipping is the only factor, but it's widely assumed to be a significant factor so I've quantified that factor. I'm painfully aware from my day job what a nightmare it is sourcing from the Far East currently, but I find it interesting to look behind the headline statements and assess the real impact of the various factors, most of which aren't as easy to find in the public domain as shipping costs.

To give a bit of context, material cost increases 1 - July 21 6% 2 - Oct 21 5% 3 - Nov 21 - 6% 4 - Jan 22 14% this doesn’t include shipping costs

[Widnes Model Centre]

Hi Spamcan61. Certainly not going to argue with you’re maths, l haven’t got a clue. But that seems a lot.

 

We often get pallet deliveries and envisaging a cubic metre is easy. If l am reading your post correctly, 860 items on a cubic metre pallet? Saw we pay £100 (just for maths purposes for a Hornby loco) that pallet would cost us £86,000, if my maths is correct oh plus VAT. 

Have l got that right, I’m not sure myself?

 

Hornby as a group import Airfix, Scalextric etc. Airfix are basically big  boxes with a lot of voids at a much lower price than railways. Cost per m3 is presumably much higher.

 

Humbrol paint is produced in the UK, but l believe the tins, plastic bottles are imported from China. Wouldn’t want to cost shipping on empty tins etc. 

 

40000+  items in a single container for Hornby? Wouldn’t want to book them in and put on shelves. 

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

The best I can say is that Frant has typical SER characteristics but it will be bit of stretch to say can used to represent another SER station. I cannot think of one that looks the same. But maybe there are... Where did you see the outline drawing?

 

Have a look at Hornby's online catalogue on their website, under 'buildings and accessories'  There are line drawings of the station building,  booking hall/waiting room, signal box, and the footbridge. Clicking on the item will bring up different elevations and the colour photo.

 

The station house presents a blank wall to the platform side and makes no sense without the accompanying booking hall.  This approach means that a perfectly sensible station can be built with just the booking hall/waiting room bit, and the station house makes perfect sense as an off-railway privated dwelling, a typical Victorian detached villa in it's own grounds for an upper middle class family.  Stone contruction makes it suitable for a good geographic spread, but I'd suggest overlaying the tiled roof with slate if the location is intended to evoke somewhere further north or west than the Severn/Trent line.

 

The new buildings look to be potentially of a high standard, just as well given the price, and RTP is always capable of modification.  Cwmdimbath's main station building, inspired by but never intened as a slavish copy of, Abergwynfi, is a cut'n'shut of two of Hornby's well established NER waiting room resin RTPs, with a new roof extending over the platform as a continuation of the RTP roof angle and with Ration valancing.  I am happy with the result and unlikely to replace it any time soon; it doens't look especially NER and is acceptable as a South Wales Valleys GW wooden edifice.

 

 

[spamcan61]

1 hour ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

We often get pallet deliveries and envisaging a cubic metre is easy. If l am reading your post correctly, 860 items on a cubic metre pallet? Saw we pay £100 (just for maths purposes for a Hornby loco) that pallet would cost us £86,000, if my maths is correct oh plus VAT. 

Have l got that right, I’m not sure myself?

It did seem an awful lot, I tried estimating a different way, and still got around 840 per M3. Unfortunately I don't have 800 or so locos to try it out in real life!

Edited January 16, 2022 by spamcan61

[Ribird]

So I’ve heard that Hornby has notified all stockists, there will be another 10% minimum price increase around mid year (same as last year and a few weeks ago). 

[Chuffed 1]

22 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't know why that myth and misquote still perpetuates. It's total nonsense that he was colour blind and shows that people who keep using that idea don't know how colour blindness works as the livery has elements of green in it.

 

The real quote was "It's an improvement on Engine Green". 

 

Stroudley introduced the livery to the Highland Railway just before he left, yet managed to get the locomotives of two railways to embrace the livery.

 

The only HR locomotives he designed was the 0-6-0Ts which were the precursors of the Terriers. But the next locomotives built by David Jones came out in yellow as did his famous Jones Goods 4-6-0s.

 

Was he colour blind as well?

 

 

 

 

Jason

Are you sure about that?  Every authority I’ve read on the subject notes a mid green under Jones and that when the Jones Goods was restored I recollect much misgiving about ‘unprototypical’.

As Jones left not long after the introduction of his Lochs, it would suggest that the mid green previously ascribed to him never occurred. Every old postcard I have of Highland Locos during the Jones era suggests a shade darker than ‘Improved Engine Green’.

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Chuffed 1
Ommissions

[Robin Brasher]

Hornby is still trying to sell its LSWR 'New Van' brake vans in LSWR bauxite on page 185.  It is clear that someone in Hornby is having problems with his or her colour vision as the prototype vans were in dark chocolate brown livery.  This may account for why they have not sold well.

 

I am not sure if Hornby's tier system has been discussed here but my local model shop has just told me that it is in tier 2 and Hornby will not accept the shop's order until January 24th. If Hornby have sold out of some of the items I have ordered by that time it will solve the problem of the price increases draining my wallet. 

 

 

[Black 5 Bear]

15 hours ago, Ribird said:

So I’ve heard that Hornby has notified all stockists, there will be another 10% minimum price increase around mid year (same as last year and a few weeks ago). 

If that's the case I predict quite a raft of  cancellations for pre-ordered Hornby products.

Fully appreciate inflation and it's effect globally, but 20% which we've had recently is not sustainable.

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Black 5 Bear

[AY Mod]

15 hours ago, Ribird said:

So I’ve heard that Hornby has notified all stockists, there will be another 10% minimum price increase around mid year (same as last year and a few weeks ago). 

 

Do you have a substantive reference for this or is it just hearsay?

[Ribird]

42 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Do you have a substantive reference for this or is it just hearsay?

Friend from a model shop. I can pm you who I was told by, if you would like. 

 

I wouldn't spread misleading facts if I didn't have anything to back it up.

[steve45]

On 16/01/2022 at 15:59, spamcan61 said:

 

 

From Hornby's point of view they've doubtless noticed that many items sell out in advance regardless  of price, they are still living on borrowed money, so they'll charge what they think the market will bear, irrespective of any actual cost increase to them.

 

Hornby are milking it, and I for one are not playing their game. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by steve45
Mispelling

[APOLLO]

Had a visit to Tesco Wigan this morning. Browsing the magazines I saw several Hornby catalogues on display. I had a quick browse, a very thick catalogue and really well produced and presented. Value for money if you want one. I didn't buy one as I'm currently getting rid of many such items / old mags etc from years ago (I bought a Car Mechanics mag instead with a useful article).

 

It's such a pity that many of items displayed, especially new items within, are difficult / impossible to buy or even may be sold out already on pre orders. I can emphasize with many posters here with layouts abuilding needing such models. The Hornby catalogue must be very frustrating indeed.

 

I'll not fall out with Hornby, they have served me well (other manufacturers included) over many years, but I think the current situation re supply & demand is not really the direction our hobby needs to go, but it is reality these days - no easy solutions.

 

Bri15

[Guest]

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Do you have a substantive reference for this or is it just hearsay?

 

Perusing the W1 page on Hornby's website shows those in stock are £242 and those for preorder later this year are £254 so it looks like increases are on the way. 

[AY Mod]

8 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

Perusing the W1 page on Hornby's website shows those in stock are £242 and those for preorder later this year are £254 so it looks like increases are on the way. 

 

Those are price changes covered within the recent announcements whereas this poster has now said twice he's 'heard' there's a further increase in the middle of the year. Someone's making something up as that wouldn't be said by a reputable source. Whether it comes to be is a different matter.