Jon's GER Loco Building Adventures

[icw]

On 02/08/2022 at 17:38, GER_Jon said:

(K9 is coming later)

Like this you mean? 😀https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/locomotives/w-adams/k9

Go on, you know you want to...

[GER_Jon]

On 13/08/2022 at 13:44, icw said:

Like this you mean? 😀https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/locomotives/w-adams/k9

Go on, you know you want to...

Or this        waiting patiently in the queue

[icw]

16 hours ago, GER_Jon said:

Or this        waiting patiently in the queue

Ooh, excellent!

 

I was right: you do want to! 😁

[EasternO]

Brilliant. Stumbled across this thread and glad I did. I look forward to following along.

[GER_Jon]

David Eveleigh got a query asking if the K9 could be used with a Dapol 14xx chassis. David doesn't do n gauge so here it is

Shows the 2mm vs n gauge issue maybe exacerbated by Dapol manipulating dimensions for production needs.

[Yorkshire Square]

7 hours ago, GER_Jon said:

David Eveleigh got a query asking if the K9 could be used with a Dapol 14xx chassis. David doesn't do n gauge so here it is

Shows the 2mm vs n gauge issue maybe exacerbated by Dapol manipulating dimensions for production needs.

 

Just needs easing out a bit... 🤣

[Ian Morgan]

It will ride up with wear, Mr Humphries.

[GER_Jon]

Big gap in reporting because the 0-6-0 chassis completely died. I think I got overconfident in changing motor so considering whether to dismantle and completely rebuild.  However I do have a second unstarted kit so I might build that and then finish the first one when I have a working one which might help understand what's wrong with the original. Also the tram chassis is puzzling, everything works with direct power to the frames but the wheels seem insulated from the chassis (they do conduct individually) I have got Simpson springs fitted.  Currently wheels are out while I try cleaning up the bearing holes.

As a relaxation from the above I've resurrected a Bill Bedford UFO etch for completion!

[Caley Jim]

6 hours ago, GER_Jon said:

Big gap in reporting because the 0-6-0 chassis completely died.

What exactly do you mean by 'died'?  Without details it's difficult to give you any advice.  If the motor runs when current is applied directly to it, then it's likely to be down to a poor connection (dry joint?) between the motor and the chassis.

 

Regarding the tram, could the issue be poor contact between the wheels and the rail, i.e. dirt on the wheel rims.  The bearings tend to be self-cleaning to an extent, at least I've never had to clean bearings out.  Also, is it just a bare chassis with little weight as that can result in very poor pick-up.

 

Jim

Edited September 23, 2022 by Caley Jim
Typos

[GER_Jon]

Hi Jim the motor died but the worm is proving difficult to remove and I'm concerned about damaging the gearbox.  However one solution might be to modify the chassis and use the new brass 30:1 gearbox.  I have a 2-4-2 chassis from n brass to complete and am planning to use this to test the direct 30:1 drive with a 7mm motor that should give me enough experience to know which option to try on the 0-6-0. As for the tram even when loaded with weight it doesn't respond well on the rolling road I use. The weight may of course be causing a different issue distorting the chassis and causing shorting somewhere. My approach to this will be finishing the body to get a final maximum balanced weight then hopefully optimising the chassis.  With such a small wheelbase this chassis might not be true enough to work well it was another built when I was still learning to solder. However,i have confidence that it can be sorted eventually!

 

 

[Caley Jim]

One way to remove the worm is to insert the tips of a pair of tapered tweezers between the worm and the motor and gently push them in so that they act as a wedge and force the worm off the shaft.  If this isn't successful, another way is to cut a slot the width of the motor shaft in a piece of metal as thick as you can get between the worm and the motor.  Slide this between the two and place it over the open jaws of a vice so that the motor is just hanging there.  If the shaft is projecting beyond the end of the worm, give it a sharp tap with a hammer and then continue to drive the shaft out using a thinner piece of rod.  If the shaft is flush with the worm, use the rod from the start.

 

HTH,

 

Jim

[bécasse]

If none of Caley Jim's tips above work "cold", try dipping the worm into some newly boiled water for about 30-60 seconds or so, that may just expand the worm sufficiently for one of Caley Jim's mechanical methods to work. Other, more vicious methods of heating would probably work but run the very real risk of writing the worm off.

[GER_Jon]

Finally an update on the tram - it now runs! much fiddling required. No pick up through wheels so took them out and replaced Simpson springs one of which had broken. I used an old coupling spring as shown in Nick Mitchell's jubilee videos although it might be even thinner wire. Certainly they are not straight, I fitted them on the outside of the chassis between wheels and chassis so they probably run the wheel backs as well as the axle.  Then we had another breakdown due to one spring breaking. At this point only three wheels conducted so the assumption is the wheels are isolated from the axles. A new spring got us going again. I won't remove the wheels for testing individually until the next breakdown as I'm worried about the bending apparent in the frames from all the fiddling. The wheels were bought 7 years ago so don't know if there was an issue then with some 6mm discs? In my capacity as shop 3 custodian I tested a sample of 10 wheels from current stock with my multimeter and all conducted perfectly. Next onto weighting the body.

[GER_Jon]

New year so thought update might be appropriate. Had problems trying to solder the window frames on the tram as it's another step better done in the flat! Got a bit annoyed with my ability re soldering so put the locos to one side and built some wagon chassis to practice fine tip work. I had  become unable to get anymore wagon body kits into the correct storage drawer so made a batch of assorted wagon bodies (18) so something is progressing. Back on loco work as the temperature improves - my workshop is in a cold spot behind the house currently mainly around 0 degrees.

I am keeping busy with DIY as well which is fun when the property has no vertical walls or right angles- bl@@y Tudor builders, :) 

[GER_Jon]

One thing I've been meaning to do is try out the association brass gearbox as I have a couple of chassis that don't come with any built in system.  It was easy to ream out the "worm " holes but the axle hole caused me an issue due to the size needed being slightly over 3.2mm (I thought this would give clearance for 1/8inch muff). I ended up buying a 3 to 4mm broach from hobby holidays as my biggest one was 3mm. Care is required not to end up too sloppy so I made a tester to check for free muff movement which will come in handy next time. I might invest in a 3.3mm drill to see if this helps also.

It looks like this may work for the K9 loco provided I trim some off the front projection.

Edited February 8, 2023 by GER_Jon
Reduced photo size

[GER_Jon]

Back into serious bodging despite the low temperatures in the workshop.  Now I have the basic gearbox together I can reveal that the test loco is the M15R 2-4-2 using 3d printed bodies from Etched Pixels - these are still available thanks to Alan's offer of free access to home priters for some 3D print files - see his website for link. The upper loco is an origial test print for LNER refit loco and the bottom is the final GER version (missing a spring which I knocked off when cleaning.

The blue paint was put on to help with body clean up (smoothing) although most of the apparent roughness is inside showing through.  I'm starting with the top body removing the dome and safety valves (n-brass relacements) these bits are solid but the visible boiler is hollow allowing stuffing later.  Underneath the loco was designed to sit on a Dapol 14xx chassis with a support at the front for extra carrying wheels ( I removed these as soon as I got the bodies) as you can see below the association 14xx chassis could be used for a simple loco.  The 14xx chassis is left over from my early days of practising soldered construction and might one day become Fair Rosamund (if I run out of other jobs).

My option is to use the n-brass 2-4-2 chassis which fits perfectly and is close to correct just like the body and given the varied nature of GER 2-4-2's will do fine.

I do need a bit more work on the front of the print to get it sat properly. The chassis was also built more than 5 years ago, I had to lower the position of the central spacer to accomodate the 6mm dia motor as I found the brass gearbox sits low in the frames and is I suspect perfect for tender engines but requires a bit more fetling in Tank locos.  so this is where we are:

I now notice the photo has the chassis the wrong way round :( damn the symmetry!  But does show the relationship of the motor and gearbox.  I may also remove the printed coal rails and use an etch for them.  Early locos didnt have the rails either so a choice is available.

 

[GER_Jon]

I forgot to mention in the previous post that I filed the inside of the driving axle bearings flush with the frames to better accommodate the gearbox. The outside chassis width is 7.3mm. Next I need to fit Simpson springs then I can assemble with wheels.

[GER_Jon]

Inspired by a trip to Ally Pally where I saw some excellent large scale pre grouping models LBSCR, LCDR, KESR  GER and M&GN  and in 2mm Mortonhampstead (well worth seeing if you can) I actually got this going again - job one modify the gearbox because the horns showed under the chassis - I think for tank locos it will be worth reshaping the box to be symetrical at the bottom whereas I just hacksawed off the prongs without dismantling.

Putting in the wheels ( I shortened the muffs for the carrying wheels to allow some sideplay ) and adding the motor so the chassis looks like this - the wheels need to be a darker blue. The motor is not fixed as i need threadlocker to do that but you may notice the shaft adapter sticks out as i'm a bit afraid of gumming the whole thing up with the threadlocker!  The other end of the worm has a piece of axle steel as a support.

 

So posed specially we now have a Jellyfish loco which is useful as you can see where the motor may end up although I may try to sink it slightly lower between the frames.

 

I suspect it woud be a good idea to fit the worm after assembling the wheels/gearbox/chassis so you can test the free running of the assembled chassis although with only a direct drive I dont suppose there is much chance of binding unless the muffs are too long. The motor shaft is currently too loose to be able to test the drive but hopefully will be doing soon.

[GER_Jon]

Time for an update I think after 6 months !   Workshop modelling has been minimal due to a bunch of critical DIY projects, organising two railway shows a garden open day and an archiving project for the M&GN circle - retirement is not related to having spare time.

 

I have done odd railway modelling bits but more significantly I've been trying to design a set of transfers for GER coaches and NPCS using inkscape (learning from scratch on that programme).  These are for pre 1902 and cover two styles approx pre 1882 and 1882 to 1902 plus some Wisbech ones which have an extra quirk.  I'm using home printed test sheets using crafty paper

 

and doing my version of the historical photographic grey images :

 

These are spare sides from GER sundry van kits (corrected etches are supplied for the kit) sporting some test transfers looking at size and colour so are crudely applied.  Some of the panels are very tight especially on the earlier Sinclair vehicles considering the wording used eg Luggage  and passenger on doors. 

 

But its taking  a lot of time to produce something that looks ok and consistent considering my struggles with the software.  Hopefully I will be able to get them print ready for Railtec.  I think the final version will only be good enough for 2mm and wont scale up due to the compromises I've used- for that I think I would have to draw up individual letters using full graphics mode.  Much of the text is at font size 1 or slightly smaller.

 

The other major railway activity : I'm learning is DCC / electronics and I am now persuaded that I need DCC in my loco fleet which has caused some head scratching given the size of the tram etc.  Of course being a curious scientist I've gone and built a DCC++ EX controller using Arduino boards which worked and can be run via an old phone handset

 

Hopefully I'm getting more time soon to crack on with the M15 jellyfish job.

 

TTFN

 

[GER_Jon]

Been busy on this lately but a warning - todays post is not for the squeamish.  Remember there are probably many more sensible ways to solve the modelling issue presented here.

 

Working on the body to fit a N Brass smokebox door as the original etched pixels body had a flat end (the later ones had a smokebox door as part of the print) I had started to fiddle with this but  not made much progress with getting a neat look so had a bright idea:

The drills are 7.5mm and 8mm wood with nice sharp edges and can be used to cut and the shanks are a good test of size ( the door is 8mm).

However something more rounded needed.Does the trick but maybe slightly OTT! Need to twist slowly and carefully - at 8mm the print creaks a bit and I thought it might split but it didn't.  Then check fit with drill shank. And there you are: Not yet glued in but hopefully gorilla will work.  

 

[Caley Jim]

When using a round file for a reamer, aways rotate it anticlockwise. That way it won't jam. 

 

Jim 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Caley Jim
Add 'file'

[GER_Jon]

Good point Jim well worth emphasizing. As it happens that's pretty much what I did just the occasional gentle clockwise and why I moved from the drills after making 7.5 mm as they only work clockwise and felt it a bit resistant.  Should have started with file would have been easier. Don't know if I'll need to do this again as the other M15 has a smokebox door as part of the design and I have no other 3d prints in the gloat box.

[GER_Jon]

Thanks to the rain plenty of time in the workshop doing various things and even some on a loco.  The M15 now has some lead in its belly (weighing in at a massive 11g) but the bunker is open to allow me to tackle the issue of door handrails. Due to the tiny footplate on the print I was going to leave them off but finally decided to put some in.

In the photo the 0.35mm holes created by my trusty archimedies drill can jut be seen not easy as the print is probably less than 1mm wide with big risk of splitting next loco I will try strengthening by glueing some code 40 flat strip inside.  The handrails are 0.3mm Ni/Ag wire pre soldered to etched handrail knobs (3-528) like so

The top was filed flush then inserted in the body and gorilla glued in place.  I prepared 2 handrails but only had time to fit 1 put into the worst positioned hole - I think my crew will have to be anorexic.  When all 4 are in place I'm adding a bunker floor (20thou plastikard) drilling a securing hole then lead block.

Weight is going to be an issue - I want to do DCC so not sure how much space in top of boiler is available for lead - I might put some in the cab roof and will aslo get some tungsten putty in to the space under the boiler at the front.

[GER_Jon]

Quick update -all cab handrails installed plus the code 40 strengtheners just visible through door. Started fettling the dome so it's just loose on the photo.

[GER_Jon]

Another lesson learned this week. 

 

Noticed at the weekend that the loco body was sitting too high compared to wagons/ coaches guestimate of 1mm error, had never thought to check this.  The body was designed to fit on a Dapol 14xx chassis (see post at top of this page for size) which should have 10.5mm wheels (per prototype) and the M15 loco had 5'4" driving wheels = 10.5mm near enough!  My thought was some packing would be needed.  Checking the details - the chassis is N Brass LNWR 2-4-2 and it turns out these had 4'8" wheels or 9/ 9.5mm (coincidentally the last GER 2-4-2 design by S. Holden had 4'10" wheels but 4' shorter wheelbase) this pretty much accounts for the height difference probably 0.8mm based on scale dimensions.

 

So I excavated the underside of the body print as far as I could (scalpel) leaving a fairly thin footplate remaining at each end - not enough difference but some progress.  Next I decided to dismantle the chassis ( removed wheels and gearbox) and file away some of the top surface at each end and purchased some 10mm drivers (+ 7mm carrying wheels)  from shop 3 which arrived 10 mins after placing the order 🙂 thus gaining an extra 0.25 mm in clearance.  I still need to alter the chassis frames some more but I think I can achieve the correct height.  If necessary I still have an unbuilt chassis etch in stock so I could create a more accurate set of frames later possibly using the original 10.5mm/ 7.5mm wheelset. Alternatively I could attempt a set of accurate frames using my MF70 when I finish the CNC upgrade that is ongoing (CAD skills permitting).

 

When the chassis is complete I now have a DCC chip so I can hopefully move to a fully working setup quite quickly. 🫰

Cheers

JOn

Edited December 1, 2023 by GER_Jon
Corrected error