Re-watched Sink the Bismarck! (1960) again and I'm not sure if I like it as much as I used to.

[62613]

1 hour ago, Ozexpatriate said:

According to this Wikipedia page, Kormoran did not reach the Indian Ocean until April 1941. Kormoran would later be (in)famous for sinking HMAS Sydney in November 1941.

 

The Automedon page indicates the raider was the Atlantis.

 

Knew I was incorrect! Her Captain (Rogge) was particularly vicious, apparently

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by 62613

[62613]

5 hours ago, Bon Accord said:

 

A large number of BP ships - together with a number of other companies which had vessels which could be regarded as strategic in wartime - were built with a Government subsidy in exchange for certain construction requirements to be met e.g. strengthened decks suitable for gun emplacements, degaussing gear fitted etc. A DEMS safe was also a standard fitting.

As I remember the Valour and the Courage had a different boiler/turbine setup to their sisters and accordingly could develop a lot more shp so that they could be used as fast fleet oilers. This apparently required an annual trial for the benefit of the MOD which basically amounted to a full speed run in excess of their normal service speed.

Later on, the 70's built River class 25k product tankers were designated to be suitable to be STUFT and quite a few of them did exercises with the RN/RFA to exercise their suitability to act as replenishment oilers. That led to modifications such as additional (higher) tank suctions being installed to permit the carriage of aviation fuel to be pumped over for immediate use, extra steel pads around strongpoints for RAS gear etc. This of course led to 8 of the class being taken up from trade and being sent south during the Falklands unpleasantness.

With regard to the braid, the official term for the loops was "executive curle" and BP and a few other companies had it. There were many stories circulating with regard to why it was used (and I'm sure it was the same in the likes of the other companies which used it) and the common one was that it was something to do with wartime service, which I was never inclined to believe as many companies and their men suffered dreadfully and I think it would be somewhat callous to single out a few.

Adoption of diamonds/curles etc was of course upto the company concerned and did not require any official sanction either way, but on that point it's worth remembering that most British companies used 3/8" braid rather than the RN standard of 1/2". Use of the latter braid in such a way that it could be confused for the RN variety was a criminal offence unless a warrant or an Order in Council from the Monarch was issued and that would of course be recorded somewhere. I've never seen or heard of such evidence for any company, even BPTC.

Some companies adopted curles for the prestige factor, but with BPTC I'm more inclined to believe that we had them because the company was effectively Government owned and it was normal for those ships/crews in government service to use Curles instead of diamonds.

My first ship, in 1972, was m.v. British Liberty, one of a class of 6 ships built in the mid to late 60s, affectionately known as the Titty - boats; they were the immediate predecessors to the River class (as you well know). The regular chief reckoned that they were the last class built with a reinforced fo'c'sle, to mount a deck gun.

 

Did any of the ex- MN personnel in this thread ever get to attend what were known as "Defence Lectures", where someone from the MOD came in and gave a group of MN personnel a talk on what to do in the event of WW3 breaking out?According to most of us, when told of what the Soviet navy had, the best thing to do was put your head between your legs, and kiss your arse goodbye!

 

Way off topic now; is anyone bovvered?

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by 62613

[Bon Accord]

26 minutes ago, 62613 said:

My first ship, in 1972, was m.v. British Liberty, one of a class of 6 ships built in the mid to late 60s, affectionately known as the Titty - boats; they were the immediate predecessors to the River class (as you well know). The regular chief reckoned that they were the last class built with a reinforced fo'c'sle, to mount a deck gun.

 

Did any of the ex- MN personnel in this thread ever get to attend what were known as "Defence Lectures", where someone from the MOD came in and gave a group of MN personnel a talk on what to do in the event of WW3 breaking out?According to most of us, when told of what the Soviet navy had, the best thing to do was put your head between your legs, and kiss your arse goodbye!

 

Way off topic now; is anyone bovvered?

 

 

I never did one back in the day, but about 15 years ago I was invited to attend a 5 day RN organised course in Portsmouth which was intended for MN deck officers.

It officially was an acquaintance/familiarisation course to see how the other half live so to speak, but it also included quite a few briefings and lectures about current threats, what to do when and how the RN might assist etc.

It was quite an interesting and at times fun week and culminated with a visit to those nice people at RM Poole to see their toys and also included a jolly down to Portland to take part in "Thursday War" aboard an RN frigate.

There were people there from the tanker companies and the likes of P&O, Trinity House etc.

Naturally it was also a very boozy week as we were billeted in the Officer's mess at HMS Collingwood.

 

During my time working for Andrew Weirs I did a trip in Hebridean Princess - for which they did the technical management - and to which I was loaned for a few weeks as they were short of bodies. That was a real riot and great fun on what was a lovely old ship, but of course her history is that when built in the early 60s her secondary role (beyond that of car ferry for MacBraynes) was to be a floating bunker/command centre on the West Coast of Scotland in the event of major unpleasantness with the Soviets.

Accordingly she and her two sisters were built like the proverbial brick outhouse and featured all sorts of onboard novelties like a full pre wetting system for the external decks, interior citadels, convoluted ventilation system to protect against fallout etc.

They were owned (and nominally paid for) by the Scottish Office rather than MacBraynes and so were initially registered in Leith rather than Glasgow to reflect the location of their real owners. Calmac ownership and a change of port of registry came some years later.

 

After that very pleasant jolly I was sent back to another rusty Bank boat, which ironically had originally been built for the Soviets with various other bells and whistles for use in the Arctic in time of war. Naturally Weirs ran them to the South Pacific!

[JeremyC]

55 minutes ago, 62613 said:

.......

Did any of the ex- MN personnel in this thread ever get to attend what were known as "Defence Lectures", where someone from the MOD came in and gave a group of MN personnel a talk on what to do in the event of WW3 breaking out?According to most of us, when told of what the Soviet navy had, the best thing to do was put your head between your legs, and kiss your arse goodbye!

 

Yes, I was a engineering cadet at Glasgow Nautical College between 1972 and 1976 and I can remember having a lecture on the subject. IIRC our assessment was much the same as yours!

[drmditch]

In addition to the Monsaratt books mentioned above, (and after all he was there) may I  suggest 'The Real Cruel Sea' by Richard Woodman (published 2005). The same story from the MN perspective.

I was once shown, by a young man who was himself, and came from a long line of, marine engineers, one of the silver MN badges.

Brave people little appreciated. 

[MarkC]

8 hours ago, drmditch said:

In addition to the Monsaratt books mentioned above, (and after all he was there) may I  suggest 'The Real Cruel Sea' by Richard Woodman (published 2005). The same story from the MN perspective.

An excellent book. I too would recommend it. I got mine on Kindle a couple of years ago - excellent value for money 

[MarkC]

I spent most of 1983-86 in the Falklands, serving in "Scottish Eagle", which was being used as a support tanker. I had the privilege of going on board many of the Grey Funnel line's battlewagons, including, on one memorable occasion, an "O" boat. Now THAT was an experience - conditions not too dissimilar to what sub crew on both sides had to put up with during WW2...

 

The whole period down there was one that I will never forget - we owe our armed forces so much, and as a merchant seaman this still holds true today. Not that there are many Western Europeans, never mind Brits, still at sea - but that's another topic entirely.

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, MarkC said:

I spent most of 1983-86 in the Falklands, serving in "Scottish Eagle", which was being used as a support tanker. I had the privilege of going on board many of the Grey Funnel line's battlewagons, including, on one memorable occasion, an "O" boat. Now THAT was an experience - conditions not too dissimilar to what sub crew on both sides had to put up with during WW2...

My dad was down there at the time of the Falklands War... although on an S boat, so a little less uncomfortable than the O boat would've been. I wasn't really old enough to have all that much of an idea of what was going on, and I suspect my mum was trying to keep it that way.

[alastairq]

16 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

Two excellent books which I still recall reading and re-reading as a boy.  Trawlers go to War especially.

For any interested party's, or, how to lose several hours of one's life?

 

http://www.harry-tates.org.uk/tgtw.html

[Tankerman]

20 hours ago, alastairq said:

 

My first ship, MV British Hero, built Lithgows, 1954, scrapped in Spain, 1972.

 

On some of my subsequent ships, the 'ol' man' [master] had, in the ship's safe, sealed orders which were changed periodically. Known [unofficially] as DEMS orders. In times of emergency or conflict, these would be opened, and we would find ourselves,instead of being a humble civilian merchant vessel, we had become a part of the RFA.  This applied to most ships belonging to the BP Tanker Co Ltd, I believe?

One aspect of this was the insignia that the ship's officers & engineers [& Chief Steward, and RO] wore....Instead of the normal merchant navy insignias of the diamond loop, we had the round loop as per the Royal Navy. I was led to believe that this was due to becoming effectively, RFAs....and applied to many, [but not all?] UK based shipping lines. However, this was all a lot of years ago now, and my memory fades somewhat....

 

 

 

 

The photo and mention of the British Hero brought back a memory from my days as an electrical apprentice at Silley Cox's dockyard in Falmouth. We saw a large number of BP tankers, the general rule was that at any one time 50% of the ships in the yard were BP owned or long term chartered and they had their own stores building for major spares items.

 

In 1964 or '65 she came into the docks for a major refit which included conversion to Indian crew, which required the conversion of the crew cabins from single berth to twin berth. As she had been carrying 'clean' cargos such as petrol, she was gas free on arrival so went straight into No.4 drydock which was close to the workshops. 

 

For various reasons, which I won't go into, but included the fact that the Chief Cook had managed to wreck the galley and the beer had run out, the voyage back from the Persian Gulf had been a bad one. The British crew were, to put it mildly, not very happy. They handled the ropes to secure her to the bollards of the dry dock and then decided that enough was enough. They came off the ship with their baggage, which they put on the dockside, and headed for the pub just outside the dock gate.

 

Having more than made up for the lost drinking time they returned to the dockyard to sign off and collect their bags. Seeing the state they were in the ship's agent and the Captain decided to get them signed off immediately and order taxis to take them directly to Truro station.

 

When the first few taxis turned up they stopped outside the electricians workshop, just around the corner from the drydock and shouted to one of the electricians who was stand outside the door "Where's the British Hero?" This was answered by her crew almost in unison, who were waiting at the head of the dock, by "We're all f**king British heroes!"

 

[alastairq]

14 hours ago, 62613 said:

My first ship, in 1972, was m.v. British Liberty, 

 i was a Nav cadet, and eventually, Uncert 3/O, with BP from 67/68. right up until 1972, when I left the sea altogether, disillusioned by educational mix-ups where the Company played politics with the BoT and the 'new' MARCs...[When the BoT system was in the throes of changing to ONDs and stuff]

An argument over my qualifying sea time between the above parties, left me with having to return to sea for a further three months....before being allowed to continue with my , almost finished, 2nd Mates Cert...I finished it by saying nowt, passed, but the BoT found me out, and wouldn't award until I'd done that extra sea time. The same applied to the other Nav Cadets who , like me, were the first on the 'new' course at King Teds, on Tower Hill [wished I'd opted for South Shields, they weren't trying the course out at that time]

The Training boss at BP [a certain Capt. SAN LeFevre] was 'apologetic', including promising me an Extra 3rds place for the duration...but I was 'losing' seniority in the career pecking order..and, fed up anyway, I resigned.  Since , by going Uncert 3/O over a year beforehand, my Indentures had been 'cancelled ' [ a legal process, like marriage, divorce, and adoption]...so they had to find me a 3/O's cabin somewhere...

 

Being at sea in those days on a tanker was often akin to being in prison......especially if on a large crude carrier doing Isle of Grain-to-Persian Gulf and back, via the CApe [Suez was shut/blocked at the time I was at sea]....Normal 'trips' were of 6 months duration before 'leave'  [6 or 8 weeks entitlement as a 3/O, 4 weeks as a Nav Cadet...] which, at the time, allowed for 3 round trips....24 hours in Grain, month out, Kharg Island at the other end [a rock, with jetties all around it]....month back, 24 hours in Grain...equally as forbidding a place to berth as Kharg....the repeat until paid off.

The only relief, or , sight, of 'other' human beings would be the agent's bat off Cape Town for some fresh supplies [nice crayfish if ordered a week beforehand by radio]...but often all one got was a hovering visit by a helicopter!  Worse than being in jail, since it was 'voluntary'...4 hours 'on', 8 hours 'off, 7 days a week, no breaks.....6 'on' 6 'off' on cargo watch in port....Wow, when I thought what my old school chums had been able to get up to at the same time?

The only 'advantage' I had over them was the ability to get a very coppery suntan...and the money was good, once a 3/O....Nav CAdets earnings were pretty much single figures each week, and we had to buy our own fags and toothpaste! Still, fags were ten bob for 200  Rothmans. Booze was cheap as well, out of the Bond.

[alastairq]

2 minutes ago, Tankerman said:

 

The photo and mention of the British Hero brought back a memory from my days as an electrical apprentice at Silley Cox's dockyard in Falmouth. We saw a large number of BP tankers, the general rule was that at any one time 50% of the ships in the yard were BP owned or long term chartered and they had their own stores building for major spares items.

 

In 1964 or '65 she came into the docks for a major refit which included conversion to Indian crew, which required the conversion of the crew cabins from single berth to twin berth. As she had been carrying 'clean' cargos such as petrol, she was gas free on arrival so went straight into No.4 drydock which was close to the workshops. 

 

For various reasons, which I won't go into, but included the fact that the Chief Cook had managed to wreck the galley and the beer had run out, the voyage back from the Persian Gulf had been a bad one. The British crew were, to put it mildly, not very happy. They handled the ropes to secure her to the bollards of the dry dock and then decided that enough was enough. They came off the ship with their baggage, which they put on the dockside, and headed for the pub just outside the dock gate.

 

Having more than made up for the lost drinking time they returned to the dockyard to sign off and collect their bags. Seeing the state they were in the ship's agent and the Captain decided to get them signed off immediately and order taxis to take them directly to Truro station.

 

When the first few taxis turned up they stopped outside the electricians workshop, just around the corner from the drydock and shouted to one of the electricians who was stand outside the door "Where's the British Hero?" This was answered by her crew almost in unison, who were waiting at the head of the dock, by "We're all f**king British heroes!"

 

 I joined British Hero in swansea, in '68.  First trip [I'd done a year pre-sea course at Cardiff, reardon Smith, beforehand....worth 9 months sea time as well...] was to Montreal. Got there just as the Expo was closing...fog up the St Lawrence river delayed us.

Hero had a Pakistani crew at the time....All very novel to me....

However, some 3 months or so later, the entire crew were exchanged for an Indian crew.  A very marked change indeed.

I learnt about Head Serangs, Batty wallahs [electrical officer, where they got their battys from]...pumps and donks....

There were two galleys....one for the Officers, the other for the crew....favorite place as a nav cadet on cargo watch [12 on, 12 off, sometimes]...was the crew galley, as there was always a 'curry' on the go,constantly. Plus,we could go sit outside in our muckies [boilersuits]...rather than having to clean up and change for the Officers Saloon, or if not too mucky , sitting outside the Officers galley...wher eth efood was nowhere near as interesting.

Hero did not have aircon......just the Punka Louvre air shifting system...so very hot  when we went to Lagos, or East Africa, of the Gulf [Bahrain]....paid off after 6 months [just over] in Aden, of all places.

Lovely  engine, an B&W job, rather than the usual Doxford...

 

As a Nav Cadet, the training we were expected to undergo [as well as postal learning]...was incredibly varied....but there was only one type of chipping hammer!  On later ships, I spent some months, at various times, in the engine rooms....We had to be signed off on both steam and motor...

On one steam ship [British Lancer, I think?] the engineers taught me to weld....stick welding, my 'job' was to weld brackets to hold valve spanners at various places, on the various handrails....down the engine room. I took to this job with alacrity, and earned a sound telling-off by the Chief as I'd welded them in some, eventually, painful places.

I don't think there's any training delivered nowadays, in any industry, that would have been so varied as that we used to undergo.....

[Did weeks shadowing the Sparky as well.....almost learnt to read morse code by sound...it was the rhythm that one read...got told off for trying the trick of taking a neon strip light bulb into the radio shack....so much HF buzzing around, it would start to glow in one's hands.  Unfortunately, one of the Indian crew were also in there at the time, sending a telegram.....and my glowing entrance fritt the life out of him... got told off for that one too...

We also had to shadow, or rather, work for [in real terms] the Chief Steward. Again I got a telling off.....told to sweep up a dry store shelf, I mistook the piles of dead weevils for spilt tea leaves, and emptied the pan full, into a nearby opened  bag of tea leaves....Interesting job, doling out stuff like dhal and ghee to the Indian cooks....

We also did  navigation, and bridge watches...Lordy knows how we found the time?

Then, it was our job to run the 'cinema' as well...ordering replacement reels of films at each port, then showing them to officers, or crew, etc.

Mostly it was chipping and chipping and red leading everything in sight....for the early years, at least.

[62613]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

 i was a Nav cadet, and eventually, Uncert 3/O, with BP from 67/68. right up until 1972, when I left the sea altogether, disillusioned by educational mix-ups where the Company played politics with the BoT and the 'new' MARCs...[When the BoT system was in the throes of changing to ONDs and stuff]

An argument over my qualifying sea time between the above parties, left me with having to return to sea for a further three months....before being allowed to continue with my , almost finished, 2nd Mates Cert...I finished it by saying nowt, passed, but the BoT found me out, and wouldn't award until I'd done that extra sea time. The same applied to the other Nav Cadets who , like me, were the first on the 'new' course at King Teds, on Tower Hill [wished I'd opted for South Shields, they weren't trying the course out at that time]

The Training boss at BP [a certain Capt. SAN LeFevre] was 'apologetic', including promising me an Extra 3rds place for the duration...but I was 'losing' seniority in the career pecking order..and, fed up anyway, I resigned.  Since , by going Uncert 3/O over a year beforehand, my Indentures had been 'cancelled ' [ a legal process, like marriage, divorce, and adoption]...so they had to find me a 3/O's cabin somewhere...

 

Being at sea in those days on a tanker was often akin to being in prison......especially if on a large crude carrier doing Isle of Grain-to-Persian Gulf and back, via the CApe [Suez was shut/blocked at the time I was at sea]....Normal 'trips' were of 6 months duration before 'leave'  [6 or 8 weeks entitlement as a 3/O, 4 weeks as a Nav Cadet...] which, at the time, allowed for 3 round trips....24 hours in Grain, month out, Kharg Island at the other end [a rock, with jetties all around it]....month back, 24 hours in Grain...equally as forbidding a place to berth as Kharg....the repeat until paid off.

The only relief, or , sight, of 'other' human beings would be the agent's bat off Cape Town for some fresh supplies [nice crayfish if ordered a week beforehand by radio]...but often all one got was a hovering visit by a helicopter!  Worse than being in jail, since it was 'voluntary'...4 hours 'on', 8 hours 'off, 7 days a week, no breaks.....6 'on' 6 'off' on cargo watch in port....Wow, when I thought what my old school chums had been able to get up to at the same time?

The only 'advantage' I had over them was the ability to get a very coppery suntan...and the money was good, once a 3/O....Nav CAdets earnings were pretty much single figures each week, and we had to buy our own fags and toothpaste! Still, fags were ten bob for 200  Rothmans. Booze was cheap as well, out of the Bond.

Tell me about it! I was J/E aboard ss British Respect in 1977, when slow steaming was all the rage. Travelling from Europoort to the Gulf and back at 6 or 7 knots wasn't any fun at all; and being as she was so large (277,000 dwt) you always on the farthest berth from whatever was ashore. About the only highlight was the "Cape Dinner", when passing the bottom of Africa.

 

[alastairq]

The 'newer' ships didn't have wood sheathed decks, like the old British Hero. So flip flops were the order of the day if going outside..otherwise one burnt the soles of one's feet on decks one could fry an egg on, they were so hot.

In my day, the engineers didn't like the eye-tie ships, owing to the dodgy electrics on them....

Many of my trips, on crude carriers, were in the Med....back & forth from the eastern Med to Italy was my favourite trip...Or trips to Sicily, where the unloading was usually through a drainpipe, so very slow....Many trips sightseeing were organised, including  minibus trips up Mt. Etna, during eruptions.

Stromboli was also very spectacular when steaming past...usually to & from Genoa.  All the Deck Officers were very sociable...most of us actually started to learn Italian, at the C/Os behest [he spoke it fluently]

Also, to bring us back to reality, we sometimes came across the Russian Eastern Med fleet.....we had our camera films 'confiscated' by the British Consul's offices in Italy [and Greece, Salonika]....for passing onto the Intelligence services...All very odd indeed.

All very pleasant by way of a change, when compared to what we could have been doing?

Edited February 8, 2022 by alastairq

[OnTheBranchline]

Going back to Bismarck, what was the point of only sending Hood and Prince of Wales? Why not KGV as well with Victorious trailing behind?

[chris p bacon]

If anyone is interested I found an article in my fathers papers called "The Bismarck Encounter"from "Marine Technology' Oct 1993 written by William Graze Jr & Robert Dulin Jr who had assisted Robert Ballard in finding the ship.

 

It's 18 Pages so if anyone is interested message me your email address and I'll send it by 'wetransfer' 

 

I've attached the first page.

[The Johnster]

12 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

Going back to Bismarck, what was the point of only sending Hood and Prince of Wales? Why not KGV as well with Victorious trailing behind?

Probably just as well they didn't given the rapid disposal of Hood and PoW's considerable mauling!  Hood & PoW  were the nearest to Bismark's breakout course north of Iceland, and had tbe best chance of catching her, and I get the impression that Hood was expected to sink her while PoW drew fire; the accuracy of the Germans' gunnery caught us out and the shock was palpable!  It was following this disaster to the pride of the fleet, a ship that had been in the public's conciousness since her launching in 1919, that Churchill ordered Bismark sunk at all costs by overwhelming firepower, not a normal allocation of resources.  Everything available was thrown into the fray, but even so the good luck of PoW's near-miss oil leak and the rudder hit from the Swordfish were needed to enable the final feeding frenzy unleashed on the monster.

[Hroth]

StB was on AGAIN this evening (on GREAT! movies action, ch42 freeview).

 

Shoot!

 

One of the more hammy moments is the Captain of Hood glancing up at the bridge ceiling as the shells from Bismark rain in...

 

[62613]

On 01/05/2022 at 19:12, Hroth said:

StB was on AGAIN this evening (on GREAT! movies action, ch42 freeview).

 

Shoot!

 

One of the more hammy moments is the Captain of Hood glancing up at the bridge ceiling as the shells from Bismark rain in...

 

Deckhead! It's always surprised me how long the RN stuck with open bridges on their ships; am I correct that most of the destroyers in WW2, even the modern ones, still had them; and the cruisers up to and including the Leander class. Why?

Edited May 3, 2022 by 62613

[Hroth]

39 minutes ago, 62613 said:

Deckhead! It's always surprised me how long the RN stuck with open bridges on their ships; am I correct that most of the destroyers in WW2, even the modern ones, still had them; and the cruisers up to and including the Leander class. Why?

Could have been worse, I almost wrote roof...

 

I expect the top brass (who wouldn't have to live on an open bridge), stuck to them because the bracing atlantic gales would ensure that the watch officers would be kept awake and alert.

 

Rather like locomotive designers who thought that a decent cab was an unwarranted luxury!

 

(I always think of Leanders as Type 21 frigates.)

 

 

[eastglosmog]

As far as I know, the open bridge was preferred by the RN because the view round about (especially skywards) was ever so much better than with a closed bridge. 

[Bon Accord]

2 hours ago, 62613 said:

Deckhead! It's always surprised me how long the RN stuck with open bridges on their ships; am I correct that most of the destroyers in WW2, even the modern ones, still had them; and the cruisers up to and including the Leander class. Why?

 

All their WW2 built destroyers/frigates/corvettes/cruisers still had open bridges, as did those that went before. Cruiser wise those that succeeded the Leanders e.g. Towns, Crown Colony and Minotaurs (built in 1945) were the same.

The Daring class destroyers (early 50s built) were open, as were a large number of the Ton class minesweepers built throughout that decade.

The Blackwood/Whitby class appearing circa '55 heralded the beginning of enclosing the thing, however that was not to provide weather protection for the crew but to ensure the bridge remained operational in case of nuclear fallout.

I think Cavalier was the last "frontline" ship with an open bridge and she didn't finish until 1972.

Rather strangely whilst they stuck with open bridges for the purposes of visibility, they didn't really go for bridge wings until post war which I always found an odd combination.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Bon Accord

[burgundy]

6 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

(I always think of Leanders as Type 21 frigates.)

 

 

Type 12 surely?

Type 21s were the Amazons. 

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Hroth]

21 minutes ago, burgundy said:

Type 12 surely?

Type 21s were the Amazons. 

Best wishes 

Eric 

 

Oops!

Keyboard twiddle.....

[The Johnster]

8 hours ago, 62613 said:

Deckhead! It's always surprised me how long the RN stuck with open bridges on their ships; am I correct that most of the destroyers in WW2, even the modern ones, still had them; and the cruisers up to and including the Leander class. Why? 

 

Oi!  Oo u callin’ a deckhead?

 

Open bridges were preferred because of the need to keep obs on possible air attacks; by the 60s these were becoming to fast for visual detection and radar was being relied on.  
 

P&A Campbell, who operated excursion  paddle steamers in the Bristol Channel, insisted on open bridges in any ship they ordered because of the need for full allround visibility at the Horseshoe Curve in the River Avon when calling at Hotwells, Bristol, always a bit stressful…