How would this be signalled

[Craig1989]

    

[Craig1989]

Complete novice here but how would this be signalled as it is a 2 road platform with a bay and a bidirectional road. At one end there is carriage sidings and the other end a nuclear yard. 
 

cheers Craig 

[The Stationmaster]

It all depends on the time period you are modelling and whether you want semaphore signals or colour lights.

[Craig1989]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

It all depends on the time period you are modelling and whether you want semaphore signals or colour lights.

It’s modern image so from nse era upto present day 

[PaulRhB]

18 hours ago, Craig1989 said:

Complete novice here but how would this be signalled as it is a 2 road platform with a bay and a bidirectional road. At one end there is carriage sidings and the other end a nuclear yard. 
 

cheers Craig 

Craig, we can’t see all the mainline track work at the ‘nuclear’ end so it’s hard to tell. Draw it up as a track plan and post that or we could miss important details  

[Michael Hodgson]

I suppose "nuclear yard" does tend to imply modern image, as do the yellow coaches, and therefore more likely to be colour lights.

But there's still parts of the network that are semaphore.

[PaulRhB]

6 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I suppose "nuclear yard" does tend to imply modern image, as do the yellow coaches, and therefore more likely to be colour lights.

But there's still parts of the network that are semaphore.

Yes, quite a bit of the ‘far west’  As Mike alludes to location can have quite an impact and the main era. 
 

A series of shots from above looking straight down to show the plan will work. On the current pics I can’t see what’s round the corner and what the warflats and loco are hiding. 
 

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by PaulRhB

[5BarVT]

Some more questions whose answers will help give guidance:

Is the bay the platform with the buffers?  Do you want to be able to use all of it for a departing passenger train or just the part nearest the buffers and clear of all pointwork?

The line on the other side i.e. nearest the timber work, is it at all connected to the platform, or completely separate?

Paul.

[Craig1989]

Yes the whole bay will be in use as we have 4tcs and units that fit in there and clear the points. The other side is all connected aswel. I was wondering would I need a feather signal and ground signals for the carriage sidings and nuclear yard? 

[PaulRhB]

Now assuming I’ve got the track plan right here’s an option. 

First you will need Trap points (traps in real terminology but you won’t find those in the Peco catalogue so look for the catch points and add a dummy rail on the opposite side so they look like a cut off point) at the four blue locations to protect the mainline from the sidings. 
 

0. Ground Position Signal (gps) to allow shunts into trains in the loop, up or down

 

1 Up line Three aspect with a feather for the loop and could have a calling on sub signal if you intend trains coming in on top of another in the loop or Up platform. 
(sub signal is a gps mounted on the main signal post below the main aspects)
 

2. Down starter

 

3. Gps for moves from the nuclear sdgs to the loop. 

 

4. Loop Down Starter for trains leaving for the Down main only. 
Sub signal (gps on the post) for moves into the nuclear sdgs. 
Bracket over Up line with main aspect for moves from up platform (shunt behind signal 0 or train reversing in Up plat.) onto Down main only. 
 

5. Loop up starter main aspect. Gps for moves into NR sidings. 
 

6. Up starter

 

7. gps for moves into loop from NR sidings. 
 

8. Bay starter routes to Up main only with gps for moves into loco sidings. 

9. Gps for moves from yard to Up main or loco yard. 
 

10. gps for moves to bay or yard. 
 

11. Down home with feather for bay. Sub signal for shunts onto another train in  down or bay platforms and route to yard. 
 

12. gps for loop, up, down, bay or yard. 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by PaulRhB

[dave55uk]

22 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Now assuming I’ve got the track plan right here’s an option. 

First you will need catch points at the four blue locations to protect the mainline from the sidings. 
 

0. Ground Position Signal (gps) to allow shunts into trains in the bay, up or down

 

1 Up line Three aspect with a feather for the loop and could have a calling on sub signal if you intend trains coming in on top of another in the loop or Up platform. 
(sub signal is a gps mounted on the main signal post below the main aspects)
 

2. Down starter

 

3. Gps for moves from the nuclear sdgs to the loop. 

 

4. Loop Down Starter for trains leaving for the Down main only. 
Sub signal (gps on the post) for moves into the nuclear sdgs. 
Bracket over Up line with main aspect for moves from up platform (shunt behind signal 0 or train reversing in Up plat.) onto Down main only. 
 

5. Loop up starter main aspect. Gps for moves into NR sidings. 
 

6. Up starter

 

7. gps for moves into loop from NR sidings. 
 

8. Bay starter routes to Up main only with gps for moves into loco sidings. 

9. Gps for moves from yard to Up main or loco yard. 
 

10. gps for moves to bay or yard. 
 

11. Down home with feather for bay. Sub signal for shunts onto another train in  down or bay platforms and route to yard. 
 

12. gps for loop, up, down, bay or yard. 

 

Just two minor observations.

First, the blue marked points are TRAP points, not CATCH points.

Second, signal 0 I think you mean ... to allow shunts into the loop, up or down.

Otherwise, I concur totally.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, dave55uk said:

Just two minor observations.

First, the blue marked points are TRAP points, not CATCH points.

 

Yes sorry I was simplifying it to peco track terminology and didn’t add the explanation   as you won’t find any ‘traps’ in their range. 

I’d use the peco ‘catch’ point with an extra dummy rail on the opposite side. Or you can just add two dummy switch rails to plain track 

1 hour ago, dave55uk said:

Second, signal 0 I think you mean ... to allow shunts into the loop, up or down.

Otherwise, I concur totally.

Yes, thank you amended.   

Edited February 1, 2022 by PaulRhB

[PaulRhB]

Making a trap point

 

Use a Peco catch point and add a dummy switch rail where the red line is and file the end to look like the nose. 

 

 

Cut a point beyond the pivots so there are chairs to retain the rails, red box. 

[The Stationmaster]

8 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Making a trap point

 

Use a Peco catch point and add a dummy switch rail where the red line is and file the end to look like the nose. 

 

 

Cut a point beyond the pivots so there are chairs to retain the rails, red box. 

OR - you can use a short  length of rail suitably filed down at one end to make a dummy single tongue trap point (or even two pieces of rail and a few bits of plastic to make a dummy double tongue trap point - far cheaper than going to Peco. (with due apologies to that excellent concern).

[PaulRhB]

50 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

OR - you can use a short  length of rail suitably filed down at one end to make a dummy single tongue trap point (or even two pieces of rail and a few bits of plastic to make a dummy double tongue trap point - far cheaper than going to Peco. (with due apologies to that excellent concern).

yes I did this on my layout but never got round to the dummy mechanism so it looks half done

 

[Grovenor]

11 hours ago, dave55uk said:

Just two minor observations.

First, the blue marked points are TRAP points, not CATCH points.

Second, signal 0 I think you mean ... to allow shunts into the loop, up or down.

Otherwise, I concur totally.

Signal 0 would not read into the down as there is no signal on the down line to limit the movement. It would be better to add a down main signal at 8 to provide such a movement limit and allow reversing on the down, as done for the equivalent up main at 4.

[PaulRhB]

23 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

Signal 0 would not read into the down as there is no signal on the down line to limit the movement. It would be better to add a down main signal at 8 to provide such a movement limit and allow reversing on the down, as done for the equivalent up main at 4.

0 can provide a route via the down and crossover to the Up Main though as long as the interlocking requires the crossover set first. There are two options, add a bracket to 8 over the Down main as an Up starter or another gps adjacent to 8 on the right of the Down before the crossover if movements would need to stop in the platform. 
Depending  on operation there are several alternatives to the signalling shown. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by PaulRhB

[Grovenor]

Yes, there are always options, another would be for the GPL to clear only if the down platform was occupied by a stationary train, OK for changing engines, but given the setup on the up line mirroring it on the down seems a better bet. Or remove the extra starter from 4 as well and expect any reversals and such to use the loop and bay. GPLs at 4 and 8 for the crossover moves gives shunting flexibility if needed.

Always difficult to give proper advice if the OP does not specify their operating needs.

[5BarVT]

2 hours ago, Grovenor said:

Always difficult to give proper advice if the OP does not specify their operating needs.

But that’s prototypical . . . !

Always my first daft laddie question when reviewing scheme plans: what are the operational requirements.

Paul.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

But that’s prototypical . . . !

Yep and so are errors in design of a plan like I made  It’s why we usually get everyone to review it and hope someone spots any errors. We’ve had it on full size schemes and as an ops representative I’ve had to ask a couple of ‘so how’s this going to work?’ questions  

We've also shared the discussions with TOC’s and there have been some significant savings made by adding stuff in at the design stage to cover aspirations they have for the near future that would cost millions to retrofit. 
Our representative on a current one discussed it at length with several of us to get all the angles covered and that’s just a rejig of an existing installation but we were able to correct some errors in the original design as part of the relocking. 

[Craig1989]

that’s near as damit but one question is would I not need a double feather to access the road that leads into the back road for the nuclear yard and carriage sidings? 
 

cheers Craig 

[PaulRhB]

50 minutes ago, Craig1989 said:

that’s near as damit but one question is would I not need a double feather to access the road that leads into the back road for the nuclear yard and carriage sidings? 
 

cheers Craig 

Well you really need to refer to the labels I’ve used or redo them so we know what you’re referring to  I guess your ‘back road’ is what I’ve labelled the (up) loop?

As I’ve drawn it no.1 the aspect only is the Up main, Aspect with the feather too is for the route to the left for the Up loop.

 

[Craig1989]

2 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Well you really need to refer to the labels I’ve used or redo them so we know what you’re referring to  I guess your ‘back road’ is what I’ve labelled the (up) loop?

As I’ve drawn it no.1 the aspect only is the Up main, Aspect with the feather too is for the route to the left for the Up loop.

 

I mean signal number 11 as you have numbered it and where the double slip is there is a point just before it to cross over into the up loop

[PaulRhB]

 

ok I’d missed that, that’s why a plan is much better to work from and a guide as to which roads are reversible 

 

Yes 11 would have at least one right feather too and possibly one for the loop as well. The calling on will cover all roads for shunts on top of stock.