Survey, of sorts.

[B.A.L]

I’m doing Product Design for my A-levels and my assessed product will be involving modelling. What are the biggest drawbacks to modelling, either while practicing the hobby or effects that tend to put people off?

[Nearholmer]

It might be hard to find out what puts people off by asking RMWebbers, who clearly weren’t put off.

 

[Lee-H]

I think the biggest drawback these days is the slow pace of ‘serious’ modelling. The younger generation has grown up with expectations of instant results in all they do. Waiting for paint to dry is not part of their agenda so they quickly lose interest. I speak as a father of a 16-year old who has done some modelling but prefers the instant gratification offered by video games and social media.

[Dungrange]

I'm not quite sure that I understand the question.  Product Design is about the design of a product: something that an individual would purchase to perform a particular task.  That is, you purchase a microwave to cook food or a lawnmower to cut grass.  Each product should be designed such that it fulfils the purpose that it was bought for, be reliable, easy to use and should be comfortable to use in an ergonomic sense.

 

Railway modelling isn't really a product: it's a creative pastime.  You can't go into a shop and purchase 'modelling'.  You can go into a model shop and buy some raw materials, such as Plasticard, glue and paint and make a model of something, but whilst that is a model, it is not really a product.  Modelling is the process of creating the model.  Railway modellers obviously use a variety of products when building their railway which range from tools to track and the models that run on the track.  However, as an A-level study you might be a bit constrained if you were to pick an item of rolling stock.  A class 37 locomotive has to be designed to look like a miniature class 37 locomotive.  The designer can consider how the various model components are designed to minimise assembly time and therefore cost, but if their model of a class 37 looked like a hybrid between a Class 37 and Class 47 then no-one would buy it.

 

As an educational exercise within the sphere of railway modelling, I'd be tempted to consider something like a controller: either DC or DCC.  Does the user want it to be handheld or panel mounted?  Should speed control be via a knob, a slider or a touch screen?  Should direction be changed by a switch or the direction in which a slider or knob is moved?  That would allow you to consider the merits of different aspects of the human interface.   Many DCC throttles can do everything - control multiple locomotives, and accessories - but how easy are they to use?  It sounds great to think that you have the power to control everything in your hand, but how many button presses does it take to change a set of points?  How easy is it to identify the points you want to change?  How easy it it to access Function 23 on the locomotive that is running in the background?  Some aspirations don't go well together such as "I'd like a big screen" and "I'd like it to be handheld and comfortable to use".  There are a large number of designs on the market and users will select one based on their own needs and preferences.

 

I'm not sure if that is of any help in clarifying your thoughts?

Edited February 4, 2022 by Dungrange

[F-UnitMad]

8 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

if their model of a class 37 looked like a hybrid between a Class 37 and Class 47 then no-one would buy it.

Didn't stop Hornby trying in the 1980s!! Remember their 37 with 47 bogies, anyone??

i too, don't really understand the question. The biggest 'drawback' in the hobby is probably cost of things, not any design faults in particular - Heljan seem to be getting away with murder in that regard with their 7mm diesels!!

[Nearholmer]

Isn’t space, or lack of it, the thing that every railway modeller wants more of?

 

So, the drawback of our chosen hobby is that, compared with many others, it tends to need or consume more domestic space.

[ISW]

5 hours ago, B.A.L said:

I’m doing Product Design for my A-levels and my assessed product will be involving modelling. What are the biggest drawbacks to modelling, either while practicing the hobby or effects that tend to put people off?

Do you mean the modelling of a product prior to actual production? Like ¼ scale models they build of cars before they go into production?

Ian

[DCB]

 

5 hours ago, B.A.L said:

 What are the biggest drawbacks to modelling, either while practicing the hobby or effects that tend to put people off?

 Cost and time from commencing to enjoying the results of one's labours.  A millennium Falcon or HMS Boaty McBoatface may take 5 hours or so to build and get change from £50, you would barely have started a model railway baseboard in that time without even thinking about adding the actual railway.

The gulf between the hype surrounding "DCC" and the like and the reality.  Those smoke and sound effects that are nothing like the real thing.

Too much has evoluted instead of being re invented, Controllers with 4 knobs where you invariably twist the wrong one.   Beginners need something they can buy, lay rails, and run trains without needing to drill hundreds of holes, learn how to solder, and lay many metres of wire.  You can have as much fun running Hornby O gauge clockwork around the kitchen table,  as from  the most highly detailed sound fitted techno gizmos in stunning scenery.

"Enthusiasts" like me are also a PITA.  Your scenery may be to die for and locos cost an arm a leg and a kidney but put the driver on the wrong side or run chimney down hill on the L&B and the true "Enthusiast" will tell you the error of your ways.  

On the other hand its safer than swimming with sharks, less embarrassing than nude Morris Dancing, quicker to learn than playing classical guitar and while less fun than riding a motorbike you can't get banned from railway modelling for doing it while drunk (Though arguably some modelers should be banned)

[F-UnitMad]

5 minutes ago, DCB said:

Beginners need something they can buy, lay rails, and run trains without needing to drill hundreds of holes, learn how to solder, and lay many metres of wire.  You can have as much fun running Hornby O gauge clockwork around the kitchen table,  as from  the most highly detailed sound fitted techno gizmos in stunning scenery.

Totally agree with your second point quoted, but not the first. Clockwork & 3-rail layouts are often very entertaining at Shows and have their own atmosphere.

But train sets are exactly about that Beginner's starting point - lay track, plug in, run trains. Swiftly followed by 'pick up off floor when it derailed on 1st radius curve at full speed'. No need to get into drilling holes & soldering until much later.

[40152]

This is going to sound negative, but dropping a poorly designed question from an unknown source onto an internet site in this manner isn’t going to get you what I ‘think’ you’re looking for. Your research question is vague - did you actually pilot it first and get feedback before launching it? You can see already that people on here are both questioning it and becoming distracted as a result, making your life harder when it comes to interpreting any data you do get. Also, we don’t know what you intend to do with these data once collected, how they will processed and analysed, will they be anonymised, how will they be stored and disposed of afterwards etc. Finally you really should tell your audience who you are (even putting your name rather than three initials would help), your affiliation and the name of someone who is overseeing your project. These are basics in any form of research. As it stands I would never respond to a question posed in this manner without knowing what’s going to happen to the information I’ve chosen to share with you

 

I hope these pointers help you to revisit this with greater clarity of intention.
 

All best
 

[Nearholmer]

The questions are vague; frankly I’m still not sure what they mean.

 

But, I take at face value that BAL is an A-level student, asking questions on an open public forum, so do wonder whether all the anonymisation stuff wouldn’t be rather OTT. We all know that the world and its wife/husband can read anything we write here (if it’s really short of better things to do).

[jcredfer]

18 hours ago, B.A.L said:

I’m doing Product Design for my A-levels and my assessed product will be involving modelling. What are the biggest drawbacks to modelling, either while practicing "the hobby" or effects that tend to put people off?

 

It looks like you are looking to produce a design for a product to be used by someone who is involved in modelling, of some sort.   Is it possible that you are refining that aim down to designing a product which might help to overcome one / some of the drawbacks encountered by those involved in modelling? 

 

I'm not quite sure if your design is specific for "the hobby" of railway modelling, or whether you are looking at the wider area of modelling. 

{Would these be the sort of area that you might be looking for?...  Portable work tray, so the person could join the family, away from the main workbench; Toolholder for in-use tools; Lightweight magnifying glasses; Tool, of some kind; Controllable glue dispenser; Filter to attach to an Airbrush spray box so it can be used without opening windows or clumsy piping to the house exterior; Comfortable back support for seating;...}

 

Good luck with your A Levels.

 

[AndyB]

I'd expect common answers would be:

Disposable income, time, & space. 

 

As a youngster it was money. I had a bit of room and time.

 

Now in my 50s I have a bit more money and space to build something. But I'm still working and have family responsibilities. So "time" is the rate limiting factor. 

 

With a bit more time I could also improve my skills level, so the overall quality would improve. But its not a race.

 

Hope this helps and good luck with your assessed piece of work. Maybe let us know on this thread how you did. 

[The Johnster]

On 04/02/2022 at 18:19, F-UnitMad said:

On 04/02/2022 at 18:07, Dungrange said:

 

Didn't stop Hornby trying in the 1980s!! Remember their 37 with 47 bogies, anyone??

 

The original Triang Hornby 37 had 31 bogies.  Both types are the wrong wheelbase as well as looking wrong.

 

On 04/02/2022 at 20:32, DCB said:

less embarrassing than nude Morris Dancing,

 

Although the social acceptability of railway modelling is relatively recent. I have no issues in talking about it up the pub, where I have never experienced any adverse comment despite it being a fairly 'traditional' and blokey sort of den of iniquity, but might have 30 or 40 years ago, and I am old enough to recall a time when contributors to magazines used pseudonyms (sort of pre-intenet usernames) in case their dreadful secret got out.  Seriously, it could be career affecting.

 

 

As others have pointed out, we could probably give you more appropriate advice and comment if we knew more about exactly what it is you intend to achieve.  As you have described it, there are apparently two rather vaguely connected aims, one to design a product for the purpose of an A-level in product design, potentially one that could be put into production and marketed, and secondly answering a somewhat unrelated question about general factors that may discourage people from taking the hobby up.

 

My general view is that the main factors that prevent people taking up the hobby are:-

 

.lack of space

.cost

.lack of skill needed to be successful

 

These factors are informed (or perhpas misinformed) by the perception of a layout as being a 6'x4' or larger tailchaser.  I suspect many people who research the hobby with a view to taking it up are greatly relieved when they discover the alternatives, which are shunting puzzles, micro layouts, engine sheds, BLTs and such on shelves at the sides of the room.

 

There are also IMHO dissuasive factors that become apparent shortly after the hobby is taken up, caused by inexperience, and these may be summarised as:-

 

.unreliable electrical connectivity at moving interfaces such as railhead/wheel and wheel/pickups, the result of dirt getting where it shouldn't and poor adjustment

.derailments caused by poorly prepared baseboards and trackbed, and poorly laid track not joined smoothly and level to the next piece, especially at turnouts

.realisation that there is much to be learned, about real trains and modelling techniques, before one can achieve the levels of realism and detail desired, that one is at the bottom of a precipitous and mountainously high learning curve. 

.confusion at the plethora of conflicting advice and opinion one garners from more experienced modellers, magazines, and such sites as this

.the shortcomings of both DC and DCC control systems, the unrealistic couplings, the 00 compromise, and the difficulty of obtaining models not currently in production

.the need to acquire soldering skills

 

 

As to the product design part of the question, finding something new is difficult as the current and well established system of 12vdc fed to the motors through the track, wheels, and pickups is probably close to the fullest extent of it's development within the current technology and the confines of volume RTR production at a retail price acceptable to the market.  I do not know much about production engineering and would be well out of my depth were I to comment, but something new is what is needed, irrespective of the difficulty!  Perhaps you could turn your mind to the next generation of models, and the possible provision of power supply aboard the locomotives, eliminating the need for conductive rails, wheels, and pickups that need constant cleaning and  adjusting to work properly.

 

Such models would be less sensitive to poorly laid track and poorly adjusted pickups.  Turnouts would be 100% reliable, and control perhaps achieved with NFC or Bluetooth.  Axle motors could achieve perfect smooth running and slow control, and wheels made of grippy material for better haulage. 

 

Just suggestions, of course...

[DCB]

The future is already here if you follow #Corbs modelling with onboard battery power (even in 009) and (as I understand it)  RC.   Onboard battery power and WiFi would make a significant step forward, Mobile phone control eliminating all the expensive infuriating traction power supplies.  Big saving in cost getting rid of traction wires, all wires on starter sets.  Plastic track, no track at all. 

General modelling non railway the big problem is storing / displaying finished models.  My son had that issue with kits so he's now railway modelling so he can store his models side by side neatly on a shelf, something rather difficult with Warships, space ships and aircraft.

[Damo666]

On 04/02/2022 at 14:59, B.A.L said:

I’m doing Product Design for my A-levels and my assessed product will be involving modelling. What are the biggest drawbacks to modelling, either while practicing the hobby or effects that tend to put people off?

Hi B.A.L., and welcome.

 

Also, I applaud you for finding RMWeb and coming here to ask a valid question, even if others who responded seem to think your question should be more advanced. I know, from having helped to guide my A-Level daughter last year, what's it's like to undertake research when there is so much information at the end of the 'GOOGLE' search box. It can be hugely overwhelming just trying to know where to start. Many A-Level students are afraid to ask questions, maybe because of fear of asking a silly question, or believing you need to know more before you ask the 1st question. I’ve seen this myself and all I would say to you is, ASK! The answers you get to your first question will help you understand what the 2nd question should be.

 

To respond to your question, I can see several levels of modelling:

Making a locomotive / carriage / wagon from scratch or from a kit: For me I don’t think I have the skills or patience to undertake this. I’m still working and have a family, so like @AndyB said above, time is a factor.

Another realm of Modelling is making buildings / structures: This I’m a lot more comfortable with, as I’ve had to do a little of this in my professional career. So it’s nice when there is some cross-over. Structures can be to any level you like, whether minimal to give context to your layout, or highly detailed. Either way, if you are happy with the building it will work, unlike a piece of rolling stock which if not perfect may derail, not move, cause a short etc. Rolling-stock generally needs to work, buildings just sit there.

 

Layout building is another area of the railway modelling hobby. This can be less refined than the minute skills needed to make a locomotive or miniature building, and a part tends to fall into the realm of DIY (making baseboards, demountable tables, cut-outs for rivers, bridges or turntables), and Modelling (making the hills, rivers, landscape, track ballast, roads/streets etc). But too, this can be very detailed and highly skilled. And of course there is the wiring of the layout. Can be simple to complicated.

 

Barriers can be lack of Time / other commitment (Studying / Family / Work / other interests)

Costs: of materials / equipment

Lack of specific skills

Not knowing where to get help: On-line like here, a neighbour who is also in the hobby, a local model railway club

Not sufficient space to have a layout

Not sufficient space to undertake your modelling (if the table you need also the family dining table). Do you have to put everything away at the end of your modelling session in case little hands / the cat causes havoc.

And procrastination is a big barrier. Getting motivated.

 

In a way, your initial question, which some have said is vague, highlights the many areas of the hobby which I only came to realise myself existed after spending a lot of time here on RMWeb.

Maybe this will help you with your 2nd question.

[Jol Wilkinson]

The OP poses an interesting question. Several replies have suggested looking at a particular product area, e.g. controllers. The majority of model railway products purchased nowadays are RTR and RTP items, so perhaps B.A.L. should concentrate on a particular product area such as  RTR locos. There is plenty of material to look through to see what people like, dislike, want, expects, etc. in recent offerings from the manufacturers/suppliers to give him something to work with.

[doilum]

Whilst some great modelling is done on the kitchen table, making the move to building layout requires a mess friendly space. This is at a premium in most new build houses or apartments. In a similar vien the lack of basic DIY tools and skills..

Hopefully this helps. My advice school wise, would be to use these responses to frame a purposeful questionaire  that will provide real data. Good luck anyway.

Edited February 6, 2022 by doilum
Predictive text error

[Phatbob]

On 04/02/2022 at 14:59, B.A.L said:

I’m doing Product Design for my A-levels and my assessed product will be involving modelling. What are the biggest drawbacks to modelling, either while practicing the hobby or effects that tend to put people off?

Hello B.A.L.
Biggest drawbacks, as other have already said, are the need for (in no particular order):
Space
Time
Money.

 

What puts people off?  Lack progress, despite effort and stuff that just goes wrong can be VERY frustrating.  You have to be patient, or ready to learn patience.  Not everybody copes well with that.
The other off-putting thing is social predujice.  Not as bad now as when I was your age, but the media in particular are prone to "take the p155" and everybody with any interest of any sort in railways is tared with the epithet "trainspotter".  Make no mistake, even in this modern age of "woke" a lot of people (again, especially in the media) use the term trainspotter as a pejorative.  Consequently, many modellers remain "in the closet" so to speak.  This can still be a barrier to younger folk getting involved in the hobby.  The other barrier could be perception that as we're a a bunch of old white guys.  Women, younger folk and people from ethnic minoroties might think that they might not be welcome.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Every model railway club in the country would love more members, especially younger ones.  Model railway clubs are common interest groups, not faith groups or political parties.  Nobody in this hobby gives a rat's @rse about another modeller gender identity, faith or ethnnicity etc. 

As for your design project?  I think most railway modellers would agree that even after all these years of development, nobody has yet come up with the perfact coupling!   IMHO all the current designs have some drawback.  The reliable ones are big and chunky and look aweful.  The descrete looking ones are fragile, or unreliable, or both.  Most pull appart as the train moves off making realistic close-coupling impossible.  The ones that are good for close-coupling are no good for shunting, and so on.  Design the perfect coupling and you'll be the next Richard Branson, at least in Railway modelling terms.
HTH

[Peter Kazmierczak]

On 04/02/2022 at 14:59, B.A.L said:

I’m doing Product Design for my A-levels and my assessed product will be involving modelling. What are the biggest drawbacks to modelling, either while practicing the hobby or effects that tend to put people off?

 

Modelling can be a single item or a complete layout. I don't think it's time, money or space. You can always make time if you want to, you don't have to spend loads of £££ and space is what you make of it.

 

For me, it's more what goes on inside ones head. Having the impetus to actually get stared modelling something. Not worrying if it doesn't work out first time. Not judging against others efforts. Not seeking perfection first time. 

[Michael Hodgson]

6 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

 

What puts people off?  Lack progress, despite effort and stuff that just goes wrong can be VERY frustrating.  You have to be patient, or ready to learn patience.  Not everybody copes well with that.
The other off-putting thing is social predujice.  Not as bad now as when I was your age, but the media in particular are prone to "take the p155" and everybody with any interest of any sort in railways is tared with the epithet "trainspotter".  Make no mistake, even in this modern age of "woke" a lot of people (again, especially in the media) use the term trainspotter as a pejorative.  Consequently, many modellers remain "in the closet" so to speak.  

You forgot that other epithet - anorak.

 

But that's a peculiarly UK perspective which has come about mainly as a result of prejudice on the part of the British media, not necessarily true of the general public, nor in other countries.  For example it is not unusual for German TV to do programmes featuring serious layouts and to interview prominent individuals such as government ministers who are happy to appear openly as modellers in their spare time.

 

British TV do sometimes run programmes involving railway modelling, but they dumb it down by reducing it to a game show and asking a number of groups to produce something within a ludicrously short time frame.  We have seen some progress though in that the media are no longer as negative about the railway preservation movement.

[Phatbob]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

You forgot that other epithet - anorak.

It's a fair cop guv'nor!
Yes, I forgot that one.  Another unecessary and unwanted pejorative epithet.

Oh dear, using phrases like "pejorative epithet" is going to make me look like a right nerd.

[The Johnster]

B A L may have a better understanding of some of the issues after a brief history overview which might help explain some of the attitudes of older modellers and of the bigger manufacturer players, and it's about that time on a Sunday avo when I'm entering the long dark teatime of the soul and feel a long, rambling, post coming on.  Here goes!

 

00 gauge British RTR, the core of the hobby here, has its roots in 1938, at which time Hornby Dublo, a sub-division of Meccano, introduced 3-rail electric train sets.  These had  3-rail track (many people at the time did not believe that 2-rail 00 was possible), and the passenger set had very shortened locomotives and coaches, but a freight set contained vehicles that were not far off scale; all were printed tinplate except the die-cast mazak locos.  Despite the opinions of many modellers of the day, who did not believe that 0 gauge's supremacy could be challenged or realistic models that would work built for the smaller gauge, it rapidly became very popular because of its ability to run on a domestic dining table and the simplicity of connecting track together.

 

00 itself is a compromise, as the early pioneers of modelling in it found that the motors and mechanisms available to them at the time were too big to squeeze into a loco modelled to the smaller UK loading gauge if they tried to build them in H0, so they cheated and expanded the locos without altereing the gauge.  A debate has continued for what is now getting on for a century or not about this, but the upshot is that 00, compromised as it is, is the only gaime in town for British outline RTR of around that size.  Over the years, various solutions have been sought in the form of different scales, British H0, or track gauges closser to 4mm scale, but have been by and large unsuccessful in toppling 00 from its dominant position.  The trade is too heavily invested, both financially and by culture, in it to consider anything else for models of this ballpark scale, which has proved itself a viable compromise between the opposing neccessities of placing layouts in available home spaces and being able to handle them, couple them up, and include a decent degree of detail.  But it's still a compromise; the track gauge is a scale 7 and a half inches too narrow, which affects appearance, splashers, between-frame space, brake shoe postitions, and all sorts of other issues.  We would not tolerate such a massive discrepancy in any other dimension on our models.

 

HD 3-rail took off big time after WW2, and the range extended, but the pricing was too much for working class parents to buy for their kids.  In 1949 a company called Rovex produced a cheaper passenger set for Marks & Spencers' xmas season, with plastic injection moulded bodies and, wait for it, 2-rail track.  This very quickly became Triang Railways, the forerunner of our current Hornby, more on this later, and the first tension lock couplings were developed replacing Rovex's hook and loop design.  HD, despite the advantage of the 3-rail being capable of running 'two trains on one track', which actually means being able to move one locomotive while the other one remains stationary, such as a pilot attaching or detaching a vehicle at a station, could not compete on price so began marketing their better quality and detail.  Their Walcheart's valve gear was a thing of wonder, and more of their locomotives appeared in forms much closer to scale length, but they were at the top of a long slope of decline.  Also worth mentioning Trix Twin, very similar to HD 3-rail but with even cruder locos and coaches.

 

In 1960, IIRC, HD brought out a 2-rail range to compete with Triang, but, unwisely IMHO, continued to produce 3-rail and introduced versions of new locos in both formats.  They went under, victims of rising production costs, in the late 60s, a company called Wrenn taking on some of the 2-rail products but we can write them off as history in general terms from this point.  Triang, under the umbrella of Lines Bros., acquired the name rights and goodwill from the reciever, and rebranded themselves as Triang Hornby, with only a revamped and better detailed Trix range to challenge them.  Trix gave the impression of wanting to replace HD in terms of detail and quality using injection moulded plastic toolings (HD themselves had done this in their later years), but adopted a compromise scale of 3.8mm/foot, another attempt to address the 00 compromise, but this meant that thier stock looked wrong coupled in trains with 00 scale.  They also continued with use of the Peco 'Simplex' coupler used by HD, incompatible with TH's tension locks.  Compatibility had become a big problem, with earlier Triang products not able to run through HD, Trix, or Peco turnouts.

 

Partly to address the smaller size of homes being built in the 60s, and as another challenge to the 00 compromise, Triang brought out a TT (Table Top) 3mm/foot range, which looked like being a permanent feature but they found it not worth continuing after a few years.  It has left a group of niche UK modellers, and some Continental RTR companies still manufacture in it, but it is not really important to the UK RTR scene.  This is a pity, because it is IMHO a very sensible all-roand size and scale to model in, as is S, an American idea part-way between H0 and 0.

 

Matters remained in this state for the next decade, with 'serious' modellers (a bit of a wobbly thing to precisely define, but we know what we mean by it) abandoning RTR altogether in favour of flexible track and larger radius turnouts (Peco established themselves as dominant in this field fairly quickly) and kit built locos and stock.  RTR was considered toy trains for children, still  based very much on train sets for xmas.  The quality and variety of kits began to increase. 

 

At about this time, RTR N gauge became available, and looked for a while like a serious challenge to 00.  Its obvious advantage is size in ever-smaller home spaces, but it failed overall because the UK manufacturers never really got to grips with smooth running and reliable mechanisms and the wheel/rail profiles were so crude and overscale that the wheel diameters were blatantly obviously undersized in front of enormous flanges.  The standard coupling is also extremely crude and bulky, and holds vehicles ridiculously far apart, something not helped by short wheelbase British goods stock.  It is still going, but one gets the feeling that the manufacturers have lost interest somewhat; new models are much rarer than in 00, and without trade support, its British future does look particularly promising.

 

At the end of the 70s, several new players emerged, and their models were to higher standards than Hornby's (the Triang had been dropped by now).  These were Airfix, Lima, and Mainline, and the impact they had was crucial to the development of the current situation.  They all accepted without demurr that Hornby's tension lock coupler was needed for compatibility, and that certain features of Hornby's range were not acceptable.  Appropriate daylight beneath skirtless boilers, more separate detail especailly handrails, and the correct ride height at buffer level (H had since Rovex days mounted their bodies about 2mm too high to allow locomotive bogies and ponies to manage 13" radius curves), all driving wheels flanged (H had caught up with this by now) and the same correct scale size (H were still using smaller diameter centre drivers to help get their locos around those 13" radius curves).  Lima made some rather crude mechanisms, and it was not the hobby's proudest moment for mechs in general, with most locos using sideways mounted pancakes driving through inefficient poor quality plastic spur gears.  The ghost of HD still lurked in the shadows and cost-cutting was given a high priority, with the result that too many components of mechanisms that should have been metal were plastic.

 

None of the companies survived in the longer term, but their influence, and in part some of their models, are still with us, for example Hornby's A30 auto trailer, still with the original Airix tooling, and 14xx, using an Airfix body tooling.  But their influence was massive, and the foundations of today's hi-fi models were laid by them. 

 

During the 80s another major change appeared, in response to the development of consumer electronics; DCC control.  A drawback with the format of 12vdc 2-rail conventionally controlled systems is the matter of 'two trains of one track' and both Triang and Trix had addressed it with overhead electric systems that provided power to the motor through the locos' pantographs, but the usual way of coping with it was to introduced switched isolated sections of track strategically positioned on the layout.  On large and complex exhibition layouts, the reliabilty of a large amount of connections and switching, further enlagred by the reverse polarity switching of electrofrog turnouts which were the recieved wisdom for better running, became a signifcant problem and a deterrent to building such layouts.  Integreated circuitry and computerised route setting was an obvious solution, and it is not much of an extension of this way of doing thing this way to put a chip aboard a loco supplied with continuous 12vdc telling it to go, stop, accelerate, decelerate, and so on.

 

No such thing as a free lunch, and there were, and are, problems associated with DCC.  It is sometimes difficult to find room in older locomotives to place the chip, and increasingly nowadays speakers for sound have to be shoehorned in as well.  It certainly solves a lot wiring issues, and the under-baseboard ratsnest with some poor sod beneath it with solder dripping into his eyes at exhibitions is a thing of the past,  but the problems have in some respects simply been moved from the wiring and turnouts to the chips, and matching mechanisms to chips for good running is not as straightforward as it should be.  The biggest drawback is cost, especially if you are changing over from DC to DCC and have a lot of locos that have to be either chipped or replaced because they can't be chipped.  IMHO DCC is degenerating into all-singing all-dancing gimmickry in a desperate attempt to justify itself; look at Dapol's GW talking water tower/ICBM, or Hornby's DCC vanfit!

 

The final development in creating the current situation was the cost-cutting move to production in China, where labour costs were very low while a high degree of QC and assembly of multi-componented finely detailed models can be achieved.  A side benefit of this was the use of very cheap can motors of a very high and consistent quality, driving layshaft axles through brass or tungsten worms, which give reliably consistent good performance, even if sometimes a little fettling is needed to get the very best out of them.  But Chinese labour costs are rising sharply (and why shouldn't they, they work hard and deserve holidays and nice things same as we do) as are shipping, factory rental, and raw materials.

 

All in all, my view (others are available) is that we are coming to the end of a road, in terms of technology and acceptable pricing.  I reckon that DCC is a shot bolt, 1980s technology, and DC is unacceptably complex for any but the smallest layouts.  Some US and European H0 manufacturers persist with 3-rail in the form of stud contacts, less visually unacceptable but to my eyes still pretty obvious. 

 

I am convinced that the future lies with a system of electrically dead track and turnouts on which trains with on-board power sources run under something like NFC, RC, or Bluetooth wireless and unconnected control, which has to be capable of being retrofitted to the current locomotives during a changeover period, but how this might be achieved I am less ceratin, as in 'I have no idea at all'.  A fundamental stumbling block is that even button batteries in series struggle to put out much more than about 4.5vdc, and even these are difficult to find room for

aboard steam outline locomotives in 4mm scale.  Consider an 0-6-0 tank engine, 08, or industrial shunter; it would be reasonable for it to haul 4 or 5 coaches or a 20 wagon freight at scale speeds, 30/40mph ballpark passenger, 20mph freight, or for an 08 or industrial, to be able to move 40 or more traditional/20 modern wagons reliably.  A big pacific needs to be able to pull 12 coaches at scale 90mph or more, and this is before we consider gradients and the drag of sharp curvature.  And it still has to start and stop smoothly and be controllable down to a walking pace.

 

Diesel/electric outline is less fraught, as there is much more room in the body for the power source, which can hence deliver more in the way of voltage and 'grunt'.

 

So, possible areas for consideration might be more efficient drives, axle motors (the central drive shaft actually being the axle itself, dispensing with gears, the motor mounted crosswise with the wheels on each end of the shaft) on each axle of a train, and the use of non-metallic materials for the wheels, as well as new types of wireless control, rechargeable power packs, dc stayalives, and so on.

 

Things I would buy if they were available; working oil lamps for locos, brake vans, and end coaches, removable from the brackets.  This would mean a rechargable and replacable power souce inside the lamp (!) or some method of supplying the light to the rear of the lens from inside the loco or vehicle while obscuring it when the lamp is removed, springy flap sort of thing, equally (!).  Working windscreen wipers on non-steam locos. Simple hook and loop, or possibly electromagnetic, couplings disguised as scale.  Internal lighting for coaches or locos that can permanently fitted without need for access post-fitting and be supplied from a rechargeable onboard power source.  Recharging of this sort of thing from an energised isolated section of track.  Steam/smoke effects that do not look as if somebody's left a lit fagend in the boiler, that are responsive to how hard the loco must appear to be working (not the same thing as current draw at the motor as an indicator), and are at the same time acceptable for use in a domestic home environment, meaning that the effect must disperse completely into the air without leaving stains and it must be odourless or at least not have an unpleasant odour, oh, and the colour and thickness must be realistic as well, with an option to show firing under heavy load timed to coincide with visible firebox glow as each round is put on, and I want to be able to provide steam leaks and ejector steam from the cylinders to order as well.  A liquid, safe for use in a home environment, that had the combination of zero or near zero surface tension and a viscosity suitable for reproducing ripples, waves, and foam to scale and to scale speed, for my streams, pools, and waterfalls.  Sound effects for use with hi-fi headphones played through a stereo system that track the position of the loco relative to your position in the room. 

 

Might as well add world peace and a cure for the common cold while I'm at it!

 

 

 

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

But that's a peculiarly UK perspective which has come about mainly as a result of prejudice on the part of the British media, not necessarily true of the general public, nor in other countries.  For example it is not unusual for German TV to do programmes featuring serious layouts and to interview prominent individuals such as government ministers who are happy to appear openly as modellers in their spare time.

 

I doubt many people criticised Hermann Goering about his layout, not to his face at least...

 

American media seems to associate railway modelling with a certain type of individual as well, guys wearing engineers' or conductors' hats with 8x4 roundyrounds, Sheldon Cooper, Rev'd Lovejoy, and (probably the most postive portrayal) Gomez Adams; at least he was socially skilled and adept (old boy), and irrepressably cheerful.  Big Bang was particularly interesting, as its portrayal of Sheldon Cooper, an undoubtedly 'odd' character who displays many of the traits of autism and Aspergers, is pretty sympathetic overall and shows a deep understanding of such people (an ex gf was an Aspie, so I know whereof I speak).  In one episode, the joke is set up that Sheldon is going to visit the model train shop, which is hosting an 0 gauge v H0 gauge debate, which Sheldon considers irrelevant and an opportunity to mock the store owner; 'everbody knows it's 0 gauge or no gauge'.  The joke is of course that he succumbs to the sales ploy and returns home with an N gauge starter set. 

 

The real debate took place between the 50s and the 70s, and its inclusion in a show set in the noughties is a bit off, but it shows a degree of awareness of the modelling world that few other shows' writers or producers have.

 

The attitude problem is British and to some extent American; the rest of the world seems much more relaxed about it.  Happily, the ROTW seems to be winning at the moment.

Edited February 6, 2022 by The Johnster

[Derekl]

34 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

HD, despite the advantage of the 3-rail being capable of running 'two trains on one track', which actually means being able to move one locomotive while the other one remains stationary

 

Sorry, although I hesitate to correct such a detailed and clear exposition, but this isn't right. The HD 3 rail system was positive centre rail and return via outer rails, which were electrically connected. You could only stop a loco moving by putting it into an isolated section. Trix Twin used 3 rail plastic (Bakelite?) based track with all rails electrically isolated, which enabled one loco to return to one of the outer rails and operate independently of another returning (or feeding) from the other rail.

Meccano Limited seems to have been taken over by Lines Brothers in about 1964, as far as I can make out.