Question regarding bodykits to a common chassis

[Schooner]

Nothing to contribute, sorry, just a quick question to highlight my ignorance:

 

• Could 3D printing allow a large and long-lived class - various bodies on a common chassis - to be commercially viable?

 

• Would a mixed-media (etched chasis perhaps, lost wax details etc) approach improve, or worsen the prospect?

 

I am, of course, looking squarely at GWR six-coupled tanks, prompted by the responses here:

 

and with perhaps a little less sincerity seriousness, if a little more humour, here:

 

 

Poll TL:DR

To my surprise, about half respondents are after a loco built pre-1900, in as-built or 'early' condition, with exceptional slow running (by modern RTR standards) desired above ground-breaking detailing (ditto). It wasn't offered in Poll 1 (hence Poll 2), but there was a vocal minority claiming a preference for saddle tanks, which were in the majority on the GW until c.1920 after all...

 

That's a strong following. Perhaps not enough to tempt an established RTR manufacturer, but more than I expected. Perhaps worth someone starting to cater to...!

 

Cheers,

 

Schooner

Edited February 8, 2022 by Schooner
Correction received

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Schooner said:

and with perhaps a little less sincerity, if a little more humour, here:

 

You may doubt my seriousness but not my sincerity!

 

Are you envisaging a sort of mix'n'match approach, where different boiler-tank / cab / bunker units could be "plugged" onto a common footplate/valence base? Or separate complete bodies as alternatives for a common chassis?

[Schooner]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

You may doubt my seriousness but not my sincerity!

 Corrected, my apologies  

 

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Are you envisaging a sort of mix'n'match approach, where different boiler-tank / cab / bunker units could be "plugged" onto a common footplate/valence base? Or separate complete bodies as alternatives for a common chassis?

Short answer, I've no idea but was thinking along the lines of the latter.

 

It's an approach more familiar to me having come across similar at Hardy's Hobbies and used it get hold of a Manning Wardle H Class, as a bodykit for the Hornby W4 chassis. The end result will be less beautiful than, say, any of Ruston's but on the flip side I haven't had to become a master craftsman to get it, and with RT Models details I think it'll be convincing enough. It's a balance I can live with, and suspect for a more commonly-desired class I wouldn't be alone...

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Schooner said:

 Corrected, my apologies  

 

No apology necessary. I was tickled!

[PaulaDoesTrains]

How many units do you expect would sell and how much would you or others be prepared to pay for one? And is the source material (technical drawings, copious photos of the prototype) available?

 

[Schooner]

On 09/02/2022 at 18:21, PaulaDoesTrains said:

How many units do you expect would sell

Just working from the response to the two polls, my first guess would be above three hundred for a first run of 1890s-design chassis with both saddle- and pannier tank bodies available.

 

On 09/02/2022 at 18:21, PaulaDoesTrains said:

...how much would you or others be prepared to pay for one?

 

Looking at the polls and Hardy's Hobbies, CDC Designs etc, I suspect if you could RRP bodies at c.£50, and a motorised chassis for about the same, I don't think price alone would hold any back. Perhaps c. £120 for an assembled, painted example? 

 

It wouldn't compete with a modern RTR on the detail front, but the polls suggest it wouldn't have to. There is a demand for exceptional slow running  - 1:60ish gearing is required. High Level territory.

 

But really I started this thread to find out the answers - I don't know

 

I appreciate 3D printing is a hobby for most here, but there are small commercial manufacturers who might be interested to hear of the interest these locos are generating.

 

I can't imagine the numbers are enough to get Bachmann frothing at the doodahs and picking up the phone to China; but it might well work for a manufacturing method which requires minimal investment, suited to low-volume production...

 

Is it viable?

 

Ps. I'll edit in links to Hardy's, CDC and High Level ASAP

Edited February 11, 2022 by Schooner
Links

[PaulaDoesTrains]

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

Just working from the response to the two polls, my first guess would be above three hundred for a first run of 1890s-design chassis with both saddle- and pannier tank bodies available.

 

 

Looking at the polls and Hardy's Hobbies, CDC Designs etc, I suspect if you could RRP bodies at c.£50, and a motorised chassis for about the same, I don't think price alone would hold any back. Perhaps c. £120 for an assembled, painted example? 

 

It wouldn't compete with a modern RTR on the detail front, but the polls suggest it wouldn't have to. There is a demand for exceptional slow running  - 1:60ish gearing is required. High Level territory.

 

But really I started this thread to find out the answers - I don't know

 

I appreciate 3D printing is a hobby for most here, but there are small commercial manufacturers who might be interested to hear of the interest these locos are generating.

 

I can't imagine the numbers are enough to get Bachmann frothing at the doodahs and picking up the phone to China; but it might well work for a manufacturing method which requires minimal investment, suited to low-volume production...

 

Is it viable?

 

Ps. I'll edit in links to Hardy's, CDC and High Level ASAP

 

I'm not convinced that it's currently possible to produce a 3D printed body fully painted for £50 or anywhere near it. Looking on Shapeways 3d printed 4mm scale loco bodies by seem to start at about £25. That's for an unfinished body which then requires sanding and painting. And here's the problem with 3d prints - unlike injection-moulded items they don't have a level of finish which can be painted straight away. There's going to be significant extra labour costs there. Sorry but I don't see it as a commercially viable proposition.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by PaulaDoesTrains
correct typo

[Schooner]

Quite right, should've read "assembled un-painted example" - as per the touchstones, all of which are supplied unpainted.

 

Still, point taken. For reference, I've spent - happily enough - towards £150 on chassis-donor, 3D printed body (unpainted) and details, paint etc. This feels pretty reasonable for a niche sort-of-RTR loco because I know it will run and run well. It's in supplying a well-running chassis and drive train where I see the USP and major cost of the original proposal. I'm currently not buying a whitemetal and etched kit, asking about £100, because its cost (plus all required sundries) offers poor value against the likelihood ending up a good runner. It's just not worth it to me. If I wanted something to keep me from getting bored then perhaps, and of course I look on at those fantastic studs of kit and scratch builds with admiration, awe and envy...but I want a model loco for my layout, not an additional side-hobby  

 

My understanding of the price spectrum: bodykits (3D print) or chassis kits (etched), c.£50; big-player RTR <£150 for a tank loco; 00 Works, for an example, supply niche RTR locos for c.£300 a pop. Things of beauty in their own right but not particulary detailed models and not particularly good runners; commissioning a model-maker...what, £500? These are all viable buisnesses.

 

I have no idea of costs involved with 3D printing as a cottage industry, I have no idea what the kind of numbers are to make projects worth it - only note that they exist. Hence this thread really!

 

Given the number of people who actively want an early GWR 0-6-0T, I'm still hoping to learn what would be required to make it a viable proposition...?

[hayfield]

4 hours ago, PaulaDoesTrains said:

 

I'm not convinced that it's currently possible to produce a 3D printed body fully painted for £50 or anywhere near it. Looking on Shapeways 3d printed 4mm scale loco bodies by seem to start at about £25. That's for an unfinished body which then requires sanding and painting. And here's the problem with 3d prints - unlike injection-moulded items they don't have a level of finish which can be painted straight away. There's going to be significant extra labour costs there. Sorry but I don't see it as a commercially viable proposition.

 

 

 

I am a bit late to the party, I bought this loco body with not great expectations due to the price and what I had seen on various threads

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224494975556?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

 

Its designed to fit the Dapol/Hornby Terrier chassis, I never thought of using a RTR chassis so initially used a Branchlines Terrier chassis I had in stock, the photo does not show up the very fine lining. But the chassis is far too small for this loco

 

 

As it happens I bought a spare Southeastern Finecast J69 chassis for another project, from memory its 2mm too long, so easy to fit and the wheelbase is correct for the class. I had to alter the footplate floor (as it was designed for the Terrier chassis) and the ride height needs adjusting. Also I am using a High Level Models Road Runner + gearbox, however I have ordered a Drive stretcher D1 so I can drive the rear wheel but clear the backhead in the cab

 

But as you can see a 3D printed body painted and lined for £57, my photos do not do the painting and lining justice, I am seriously thinking about buying a further variant of this class or the NLR loco. As for a universal chassis, after seeing how bad a compromise looks I would always go for a bespoke chassis

 

 

[Schooner]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

But as you can see a 3D printed body painted and lined for £57, my photos do not do the painting and lining justice, I am seriously thinking about buying a further variant of this class or the NLR loco. As for a universal chassis, after seeing how bad a compromise looks I would always go for a bespoke chassis

 

Interesting, thank you for sharing. I've also a mind for their Park Tank  

 

"Common chassis" ≠ "universal chassis". My thought was for an accurate eg 850 chassis for which a variety of accurate 850 bodies, saddle and pannier tank, could be designed.

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

 

Interesting, thank you for sharing. I've also a mind for their Park Tank  

 

"Common chassis" ≠ "universal chassis". My thought was for an accurate eg 850 chassis for which a variety of accurate 850 bodies, saddle and pannier tank, could be designed.

 

I am not to certain which loco you are referring to, but if its the same quality as the one I bought you will be pleased.