Class 37s so slow!

[Dagworth]

18 hours ago, The Johnster said:

37s are rated 'not too exceed' at 105mph, so, assuming that the stock speed and line speed allows it, can easily run at 100mph with a passenger train.  47s are rated not to exceed 95mph, and the type 4 WR hydraulics for 90mph (of course, this was sometimes exceeded in service).  Can't off hand recall what 31s, 40s and Peaks were allowed now; 100mph I think.  50s were 110mph. 

 

Some others that I can remember were Hymeks and 25s at 90mph, 22s and 24s at 75mph, and 20s at 60mph. 

Afraid some of that's not correct...

 

20s 75mph

25s 90 (except 25/9, 60)

26s 80

27s 90

31s 90 (you'll be lucky!)

33s 85

37s 90 (some restricted to 60)

40s 90

45s 90

47s 95 (47/7 100)

50s 100

56s 80

58s 80

59s 60

73s 90 (73/0 80)

 

Data from P5 combined 1986 but ties up with my memory from being footplate crew

 

Andi

Edited February 13, 2022 by Dagworth

[Ncarter2]

9 hours ago, Dagworth said:

Errr no...

 

20s 75mph

25s 90 (except 25/9, 60)

26s 80

27s 90

31s 90 (you'll be lucky!)

33s 85

37s 90 (some restricted to 60)

40s 90

45s 90

47s 95 (47/7 100)

50s 100

56s 80

58s 80

59s 60

73s 90 (73/0 80)

 

Data from P5 combined 1986 but ties up with my memory from being footplate crew

 

Andi

The 59/2’s are 75mph machines, they have yaw dampers fitted. If memory serves, this was trialled on 59104, but I believe since removed. 
Are the 73/9’s and 69’s still rated for the same speed?

[PM47079]

If the 69s still have class 56 traction motors, the maximum speed won't be higher than a 56

[The Johnster]

Thank you for correcting my faulty memory, Andi.  I agree that 90mph with a 31 would require downhill, a following wind, and the moon to be in Capriccorn, but at least they rode well (or did during my time as a freight guard at Canton in the 70s).  25s, OTOH, which I rode on regularly on a class 4 parcels job, the 00,35 Cardiff-Peterborough, as far as Gloucester, had no problem working themselves up to 90 with the 4-coach train, though you'd had your spine compressed by about 2 inches by the time you got to Gloucester and were frozen from the draughts in the cab in winter.  They'd replaced Hymeks on this job, another 90mph loco, and were something of a culture shock after the 'meks, which were cosy, properly soundproofed, and rode like Pullmans, not to mention being much more powerful at the same overall weight as a 25.

[Dagworth]

My memory of 31s was bounce bounce bounce on 60ft jointed track, fine on CWR though. 47s rolled like a ship at sea, side to side, but 37s were just solid.

 

Andi

[The Johnster]

Yes, I agree about the 47s.  My theory was that better rides were associated with longer wheelbase bogies, but the 47s did not fit this at all.  52s were ok but suffered from violent vibration between 55 and 65mph, the very speed range that was most useful for fully fitted freight workings, 45/6 Peaks (never rode on 44 or 40) were very steady so long as mileage was low, but the springs bottomed out if it was a long time since they had been in for overhaul.  37s were steady but noisy, 31s I only experienced at 60mph or lower, and found them superb riders.  The 33s at Canton were after my time, 25s were just plain horrible in all respects; hopeless ride, noisy, draughty, uncomfortable seats, nothing to recommend them at all.  Hymeks were much better.  47s were ok except for that 'windjammer trying to round Cape  Horn' ride; the cabs were comfortable, reasonably quiet, and draughtproof, and the seats were good, with arms and good adjustment. 

 

The best ride was definitely the 08.  Unless it was moving, that is, when things got a bit 'interesting'; a Docks driver once told me that he knew when he was off the road in the dark (there were locations down there that were blacker than the inside of a cow at night) because the ride improved...

[Dagworth]

16 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

47s were ok except for that 'windjammer trying to round Cape  Horn' ride; the cabs were comfortable, reasonably quiet, and draughtproof

Each cab contained about four rolls of masking tape... and various newspapers shoved into gaps to big for tape!

 

Andi

Edited February 13, 2022 by Dagworth

[F-UnitMad]

33 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 

The best ride was definitely the 08.  Unless it was moving, that is,

Love it!!!

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, Dagworth said:

Each cab contained about four rolls of masking tape... and various newspapers shoved into gaps to big for tape!

 

Andi

 

I've heard this from other sources, and all I can say is that they must have deteriorated after the 70s.  One thing that was showing up in my time at Canton was stiff cab doors, most needing a hefty kick to open them from the outside and a considerably effort from inside; this suggests to me that the bodyshells were distorting, and I can see how that might have gotten worse over time.  But there aren't any obvious places that draughts can get in, unlike the 1955 Plan designs with gangway doors (eventually sealed up).  Locos with noses were suspect in this regard as well, but the 47s in later years had the headcode panels plated over so the draughts weren't getting in there.  I assume that the cause was bodyshell distortion and that the draughts were coming in through the doorways and possibly from beneath the floor.

 

I liked the 47s, which was just as well because they accounted for probably more than half of the cabriding work in my link.  At the time I considered them the best mixed traffic design in the history of railways in the UK, at home on a class 8 mineral plod or a 60mph ,block oil train, but just as happy with an airconditioned 10 coach Swansea-Paddington.  You'd have to brace yourself for the bang when the loco passed over wet spots, visible by staining on the ballast, especially on the Gwent levels, as it would drop as if into a gap, reaching the bottom with a thud as the springs bottomed out.

 

Newspapers to stop up the gaps and keep the draughts out were de riguer on brake vans; masking tape would have been useless as it wouldn't have stuck to the filthy wood.  It would take from Cardiff to Newport to identify the holes and seal them, then you could start warming up and relax a bit, but most of the vans were poor riders and rocked violently, so when I say 'relax', what I really mean is 'hang on for dear life', but at least you were warm, miserable, and uncomfortable, which is better than being cold, miserable, and uncomfortable...

[Dagworth]

2 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I've heard this from other sources, and all I can say is that they must have deteriorated after the 70s

My time on them was mid 80s so yes... I don't know how much difference there would be between draughts in the front and rear cabs?

 

Andi