What were the Airfix Booking Hall and Engine Shed kits based on?

[Butler Henderson]

The booking hall makes a good a cricket ground pavilion,

Edited February 19, 2022 by Butler Henderson

[andyman7]

7 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

The booking hall makes a good a cricket ground pavilion,

In much the same way, the Hornby Skaledale Cricket Pavilion makes rather a good ticket office for a small Colonel Stephens-style station 

[Nearholmer]

27 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Older buildings everywhere might be wooden framed with lath and plaster infilling, but little of this sort of construction tooke place after the beginning of the 18th century, so is not applicable to railway buildings.

Well, very slightly applicable, in fact.

 

The LBSCR used an architect named Myers to design a lot of stations in Sussex in the last quarter of C19th, and his style was a very fancied-up vernacular, now most famous at Sheffield Park station on the Bluebell. He used timber frame with lath and plaster on the upper storeys, usually with really fancy pargetting. Trouble is, it wasn’t as damp-proof as people had come to expect by then, so after a few years, most of it was over-hung with tiles fixed to battens.

 

The story rather mirrored building development in the area, in that a great many Wealden buildings started life with timber framing and ‘wattle and daub’, latterly on the upper storeys only, under thatched roofs, and were gradually given tiled roofs, and tile-hanging. Even later buildings that were tiled from the start incorporate all sorts of features that hark back to earlier forms of construction.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Derekl said:

Following on he point about a Jinty not fitting in the Airfix shed, were these sheds used for storing "off duty" locomotives or were they provided so that there was a covered area in which to work on them? I suppose steam raising and preparation are probably done more comfortably under cover (although I suspect "comfort" here is relative) and I suppose also that any serious work was done elsewhere, but were these sheds (that is, on the end of a branch line) actually used as an overnight parking spot?

 

More or less. 

 

Usually to put them away after the days work so they are ready for the morning. The first train would be departing from that end. They would be in light steam with very little fire. Engines were normally kept in steam for weeks.

 

Larger sheds would leave the ones in steam outside.

 

The shed staff/crews would be adept at doing minor maintenance themselves, but if something did go wrong they would ask for a replacement from the main shed. Usually those were only a few miles away.

 

 

Lighting up on shed was a sackable offence, although they probably got away with it in the sticks. Look at what happened to Preston with a shed full of locomotives. 

 

https://chrisdownesbirds.com/p12038755/h465F8882#h465f8882

 

 

Jason

Edited February 19, 2022 by Steamport Southport

[Steamport Southport]

5 hours ago, melmerby said:

I actually thought it was supposed to be an amalgam of the two I mentioned (something from the deepest corners of my memory.)

I can remember it originally coming out in around 1960* and a similar discussion ensued. (but obvious not on't web that far back.)

 

The roof is almost exactly as Ashburton and the panelled brick walls and front doors are as Tetbury, the windows are a mix of the two prototypes

 

IMHO Airfix aren't going to include a water tank on something that is about half the length of an actual shed.

 

*I've still got what I bought then "bashed" into a two lane x three deep shed (6 kits) with the addition of some cheap second hand built ones and some new Dapol made ones.

 

Looks nothing like either though.

 

 

The fact it's designed to be modular suggests they weren't expecting many to use them as a small shed. More something to put your Triang and Hornby Dublo Pacifics and 4-6-0s in.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

I think it's fair to say that most of us used them as single standalone sheds, but of course those that used them modularly (if that's a cromulent word) accounted for a higher proportion of sales.  Big enough for a good variety of tank engines, they will accommodate a GW pannier, just, a HD R1, and a 14xx; considering the RTR and kit models available in the 60s and 70s, this makes sense.

 

Single road single loco engine sheds like this are usually found either in industrial private owner settings or at the ends of branch lines where the first train of the day is a service to the main line junction.  This happened on many branch lines, but equally common was that the first train of the day started at the juntion and brought the mail and London papers, in which case the branch loco was shedded at the junction.  Where there were branch terminus sheds, the loco would arrive at the shed after the last train of the day, drop the fire, water an coal up, and be kept in light steam overnight so that the morning crew could simply put a bit more on the fire and get her up to pressure for the first train of that day.  Any minor maintenance or fettling of the sort that could be done with the engine in steam would be done overnight, and anything more complex done at the main shed, probably at the junction, when the loco visited this parent shed for boiler washout work, often over Sundays.

 

For this reason, I prefer not to have these small sheds at my branch termini, as a BLT layout is usually a response to limited space and the shed is a dead area that contributes nothing to the operation of the terminus during the working day; I prefer to see this space used for scenery or a facility that generates goods traffic, increasing rather than decreasing the operational potential of the layout.  This is a very personal viewpoint and many people will disagree. which is fine.

[Steamport Southport]

I actually bought one recently to convert into an industrial engine shed.

 

The plan is to use it as a slightly dilapidated industrial steam shed whilst the Miniart one is the diesel shed. The reason is I started acquiring industrials and small locomotives and they don't really fit in on a mainline. So I want to build one of those small layouts.

 

This is the Minart kit. The plan is to change the roof to some of that corrugated sheeting instead of the continental style tiles.

 

Called a "workshop" but it's obviously an engine shed even though it's made for military modellers. Very good quality.

 

https://miniart-models.com/product/72022/

 

I got mine from Amazon for about £15.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

I’d advise getting your orders in quick if you want any of this stuff, given the company’s address… 

[ardbealach]

13 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Looks nothing like either though.

 

 

The fact it's designed to be modular suggests they weren't expecting many to use them as a small shed. More something to put your Triang and Hornby Dublo Pacifics and 4-6-0s in.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Agreed the Airfix engine shed is a great model for a bit of kit bashing ...... but pendant alert!.....  The large double height timber doors provided for the shed main entrance wouldn't last very long in the full size world.  The two  angled timber braces to each door should be angled back to the door stile nearest the hinge and should not set out, angled to the outer stile.   If the doors were constructed the Airfix way I reckon they would soon distort and droop out of shape. [Alisdair] 

image.png

[Nickey Line]

11 minutes ago, ardbealach said:

but pendant alert!

 

Use as jewellery?

Edited February 20, 2022 by Nickey Line
Sorry, couldn't resist!

[Compound2632]

18 hours ago, Phatbob said:

This might be a bit  but folk might like to know that the airfix Booking Office is actually H0 and not 00 IIRC.

 

 

To a degree, that presupposes it's a scale model of a specific prototype. But in terms of proportions of doorways etc. one should be able to judge the intended scale.

 

I'm curious as to the basis for your assertion, which does seem rather unlikely. Back when these kits were first introduced, 4 mm/ft was already well-established as the scale for modelling of British prototypes rather than 3.5 mm/ft; Airfix were producing rolling stock and static locomotive kits to this scale. Of course they committed the solecism of putting "00/H0 Scale" on the box - a well-established absurdity.

[Steamport Southport]

There was one HO model in the range (unfortunately).

 

The Interfrigo Van is HO and is too small. Although it has it's buffer height at 4mm scale. Pity as it could have been a useful model otherwise.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

I was once involved in building a 4mm club layout of an actual location on which we constructed all of the buildings (mostly quite large factory sheds) to 3.5mm.  Clearances were tight beneath a covered canopy over a private siding, but nobody commented during the layout's exhibition career, and I would contend that this dodge is a valid means of compression in many (not all) cases.  After all, we employ it without demur with our 00 track, not that I want to reopen that wormcan...  My colliery on Cwmdibath employs 3.5mm H0 buildings in part, a Faller 'Old Coal MIne' which serves as the screens and washer, and looks fine to my (possibly not excessively critical) eye.  The main 'Europeanism' is the hammered lead sheet roof, which I have never seen in the UK although The Squeeze (Polish) tells me it is common on older industrial buildings there, and she is from the Silesian mining region so knows whereof she speaks.  I have an intention to overlay or replace this roof with corrugated iron sheets.

 

None of which answers the question about the scale of the Airfix booking hall, and as has been said, its scale credentials cannot be assessed without knowing what, if any, prototype it is based on.  My sense of it is that it is not undersized in 4mm, though.  If it is a freelance generic model, then its credibility depends as much on its general proportions as much as anything else, so long as the doorways are not blatantly undersized.

[Neil]

17 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

I actually bought one recently to convert into an industrial engine shed.

 

The plan is to use it as a slightly dilapidated industrial steam shed whilst the Miniart one is the diesel shed. The reason is I started acquiring industrials and small locomotives and they don't really fit in on a mainline. So I want to build one of those small layouts.

 

This is the Minart kit. The plan is to change the roof to some of that corrugated sheeting instead of the continental style tiles.

 

Called a "workshop" but it's obviously an engine shed even though it's made for military modellers. Very good quality.

 

https://miniart-models.com/product/72022/

 

I got mine from Amazon for about £15.

 

 

 

Jason

 

The Miniart kit does make a good basis for an industrial loco shed but it is a touch on the low side so will need some packing up to rail height if it's to be of use. Here's mine showing the corrugated roof I gave it before I got round to painting it. I also  sanded flat the blockwork lower sides and overlaid brick plasticard to give a uniform look to the walls.

 

[Steamport Southport]

20 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I was once involved in building a 4mm club layout of an actual location on which we constructed all of the buildings (mostly quite large factory sheds) to 3.5mm.  Clearances were tight beneath a covered canopy over a private siding, but nobody commented during the layout's exhibition career, and I would contend that this dodge is a valid means of compression in many (not all) cases.  After all, we employ it without demur with our 00 track, not that I want to reopen that wormcan...  My colliery on Cwmdibath employs 3.5mm H0 buildings in part, a Faller 'Old Coal MIne' which serves as the screens and washer, and looks fine to my (possibly not excessively critical) eye.  The main 'Europeanism' is the hammered lead sheet roof, which I have never seen in the UK although The Squeeze (Polish) tells me it is common on older industrial buildings there, and she is from the Silesian mining region so knows whereof she speaks.  I have an intention to overlay or replace this roof with corrugated iron sheets.

 

None of which answers the question about the scale of the Airfix booking hall, and as has been said, its scale credentials cannot be assessed without knowing what, if any, prototype it is based on.  My sense of it is that it is not undersized in 4mm, though.  If it is a freelance generic model, then its credibility depends as much on its general proportions as much as anything else, so long as the doorways are not blatantly undersized.

 

“If this is Upper Silesia, what on earth must Lower Silesia be like?”

 

— P. G. Wodehouse

 

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

“If this is Upper Silesia, what on earth must Lower Silesia be like?”

 

He knew not of what he spoke. I'd rather change trains in Wroclaw than Katowice.

[Steamport Southport]

11 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

He knew not of what he spoke. I'd rather change trains in Wroclaw than Katowice.

 

He was in an internment camp though. After getting caught out with the Invasion of France.

 

The story could actually come from one of his comic novels.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._G._Wodehouse#Second_World_War:_internment_and_broadcasts

 

The general consensus was that he was too stupid and immature to have been a traitor!

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

Possibly, and as I like his writings I would prefer it if this is true.  He had, in the rather shrewdly observed character of Spode, clearly shown a keen political awareness of the fascism of 30s England, and savagely (and justifably) ridiculed it.  Wooster, his prime character, often takes up cudgels on behalf of oppressed maids and the lower orders in general; I consider there to be an element of Socialism behind this.  But he is difficult to pin down in this sort of manner, and even his ridicule of Spode is more in the nature of a man with high public school morality's righteous contempt of a bully rather than that bullies' political leanings.  No sympathy for fascism and the Blackshorts in general is evident, though. 

 

It is surprising to me that he did not get a much rougher time than he actually did while in internment under the Reich; perhaps they were only aware of his reputation as a respected and well known author.  I can't imagine the likes of Hitler, Goering, or Himmler allowing someone they would have clearly regarded as a political and cultural enemy, in the same way as they did Chaplin, giving Wodehouse an easy ride if they'd read any of the stories with Spode in them. 

 

Spode seems to be fairly closely based on Moseley, who was in reality all the ridiculous things that Spode was, including a blustering bully, but was far more subtle and dangerous in his dealings with those who operated the levers of power, and far more influential.  Churchill, to be fair, saw through the mask early and accurately, but many others were at least partly taken in, especially during the first half of the 30s when Moseley was seen by some as offering the same radical solutions to the nation's troubles as Mussolini seemed to be effectively doing in Italy; 'at last, a politician who gets things done!'...

 

So, while there is certainly an element of naievity and possibly stupidity surrounding the Nazi-sponsored broadcasts, and the villain of the piece is Goebbels more than Wodehouse, he is a little mendacious if he claims to be a completely non-political animal.  He had, long before the war started, abandoned the UK in search of an American fortune, as did Wooster, and can hardly be regarded as representing British, or even English, culture, morality, or opinion by 1940.  He clearly. and understandably, became a bit dissassociated from current affairs in both the UK and in the States during his internment, and must have been fed a world view through a Nazi lens; how much he was taken in by this is moot. 

 

But it is I think significant that he never returned to the UK even after the literary establishment here had clearly substantially forgiven him any wartime indiscretion.  He probably never forgave us and I don't think I would have in his shoes, or spats, either.  You want a traitor, fine, but, to maintain a proportionate response, don't have a go at P G until you've tried, convicted, and shot like traitorous dog he was (and I'd have certainly had him shot or hanged, denied the aristocratic honour of the axe), the Master of Semphill, Tojo's obedient little puppy, who was completely forgiven with no action taken against him during the war (though MI5 kept a close eye on him), and was allowed after it to live out a life of wealth and privilege in the country he'd so shamelessly betrayed because of his connections, which included Winston Churchill.  I knew several men who'd been captured at the fall of Singapore and suffered in Japanese POW camps, and they had a somewhat different viewpoint on this matter...  Wodehouse's indiscretions, naievity, or stupidity pale beside that!

[33C]

8 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Possibly, and as I like his writings I would prefer it if this is true.  He had, in the rather shrewdly observed character of Spode, clearly shown a keen political awareness of the fascism of 30s England, and savagely (and justifably) ridiculed it.  Wooster, his prime character, often takes up cudgels on behalf of oppressed maids and the lower orders in general; I consider there to be an element of Socialism behind this.  But he is difficult to pin down in this sort of manner, and even his ridicule of Spode is more in the nature of a man with high public school morality's righteous contempt of a bully rather than that bullies' political leanings.  No sympathy for fascism and the Blackshorts in general is evident, though. 

 

It is surprising to me that he did not get a much rougher time than he actually did while in internment under the Reich; perhaps they were only aware of his reputation as a respected and well known author.  I can't imagine the likes of Hitler, Goering, or Himmler allowing someone they would have clearly regarded as a political and cultural enemy, in the same way as they did Chaplin, giving Wodehouse an easy ride if they'd read any of the stories with Spode in them. 

 

Spode seems to be fairly closely based on Moseley, who was in reality all the ridiculous things that Spode was, including a blustering bully, but was far more subtle and dangerous in his dealings with those who operated the levers of power, and far more influential.  Churchill, to be fair, saw through the mask early and accurately, but many others were at least partly taken in, especially during the first half of the 30s when Moseley was seen by some as offering the same radical solutions to the nation's troubles as Mussolini seemed to be effectively doing in Italy; 'at last, a politician who gets things done!'...

 

So, while there is certainly an element of naievity and possibly stupidity surrounding the Nazi-sponsored broadcasts, and the villain of the piece is Goebbels more than Wodehouse, he is a little mendacious if he claims to be a completely non-political animal.  He had, long before the war started, abandoned the UK in search of an American fortune, as did Wooster, and can hardly be regarded as representing British, or even English, culture, morality, or opinion by 1940.  He clearly. and understandably, became a bit dissassociated from current affairs in both the UK and in the States during his internment, and must have been fed a world view through a Nazi lens; how much he was taken in by this is moot. 

 

But it is I think significant that he never returned to the UK even after the literary establishment here had clearly substantially forgiven him any wartime indiscretion.  He probably never forgave us and I don't think I would have in his shoes, or spats, either.  You want a traitor, fine, but, to maintain a proportionate response, don't have a go at P G until you've tried, convicted, and shot like traitorous dog he was (and I'd have certainly had him shot or hanged, denied the aristocratic honour of the axe), the Master of Semphill, Tojo's obedient little puppy, who was completely forgiven with no action taken against him during the war (though MI5 kept a close eye on him), and was allowed after it to live out a life of wealth and privilege in the country he'd so shamelessly betrayed because of his connections, which included Winston Churchill.  I knew several men who'd been captured at the fall of Singapore and suffered in Japanese POW camps, and they had a somewhat different viewpoint on this matter...  Wodehouse's indiscretions, naievity, or stupidity pale beside that!

Yeah but, have they made an Airfix engine shed..........

[Compound2632]

59 minutes ago, 33C said:

Yeah but, have they made an Airfix engine shed..........

 

Sorry. My fault. I shouldn't have picked up on the Upper Silesia quote.

[exet1095]

There used to be a shed by Aldermaston Station that looked very like the Airfix loco shed. I think it was a boiler house for Sterling Cables in the early 1980s, but it was by the end of the headshunt for Padworth sidings.

 

Paul

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, exet1095 said:

There used to be a shed by Aldermaston Station that looked very like the Airfix loco shed. I think it was a boiler house for Sterling Cables in the early 1980s, but it was by the end of the headshunt for Padworth sidings.

 

Paul

The headshunt for Padworth was an addition in the 1974 resignalling because the trailing connection to Padworth Sidings at Aldermaston was removed.  The headshunt extended behind the Down platform and through the former goods yard more or less to the Sterling Cables site.

[hmrspaul]

On 19/02/2022 at 15:27, john new said:

So you needed to buy two! Clever sales ploy.

They were only 3 shillings each!

 

Paul

[hmrspaul]

On 19/02/2022 at 22:02, Steamport Southport said:

Look at what happened to Preston with a shed full of locomotives. 

 

https://chrisdownesbirds.com/p12038755/h465F8882#h465f8882

 

 

Jason

Thanks, never seen photos of that before. I do remember passing the burnt out shell - got a few cops that wouldn't have been visible otherwise, IIRC an unrebuilt Patriot was very noticeable.

 

Paul

[RichardT]

On 17/02/2022 at 02:51, kevinlms said:

With the standard kit shed, being just too short to fit a Jinty in properly  IIRC.

Just like the Easingwold Railway’s little brick built shed at Easingwold - just large enough for their own industrial locos, but too small for the hired-in J71s & J72s, which had to be stabled outside, often on the running line.

 

For interest, the interior:

 

I went for a walk around the former station site late in 2020 to clear my head after helping to sort out my late father-in-law’s flat in Easingwold, and the foundations of the engine shed are still visible next to the former track bed (now a favourite local dog-walking path). Easier to see in winter as the foundations are now surrounded by trees and undergrowth.

 

Richard

Edited February 21, 2022 by RichardT
Adding info