Relative noob needing help with new layout

[Nearholmer]

CJF advocated taking the backscene away during operation, which sounds to me like it would destroy the magic, so see the suggestion about "stage scenery" that I made in Andy's thread. But, I routinely reach over a 1ft high backscene on my 0 layout (set about 850mm) in order to couple and uncouple, and it really isn't a great problem. And, before you ask, I'm not exceptionall tall!

 

I wouldn't want to do 4mm scale 3-links like that though (in fact, I can no longer see well enough to do them anywhere!), so would use a different coupler for a layout like this, and/or make up trains away from the FY, and "load the magazine" for a running session.

 

The reason I keep banging-on about a Deane FY for this application is that it allows the wonder of 360 degree scenery from a seated operating position, which must make for an immersive experience.

 

Three road FY is behind the retaining wall seen here.

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Keith Addenbrooke]

If I might add a couple of observations - there’s already some good advice here, and for a permanent layout, L-girder framework can give you a head start when it comes to scenery.

 

Personally I’d probably keep hold of the Class 37 for now - as a long wheelbase locomotive it’ll be useful for testing clearances around curves and helping visualise the overhang as you try things out.

 

That aside, a useful resource might be the Peco Publication: “60 Plans for Small Locations.”  It’s available for on-line download from Pocketmags and gives you access to some of the best of Cyril Freezer’s (CJF) designs, including the Deane Pattern Branch-line Terminus to Fiddle Yard (SP15 and SP29).  A couple of words of caution:

 

1.  Quite a lot of these older plans assume an acceptable minimum radius of 15” (R1) whereas more modern models need at least 18” (R2) or above - and look better on gentler curves.  As you have a bit more space than is used for some of the plans in the book that could be used to your advantage - use any extra space to ease the curves.

 

2.  Some of the platforms also assume short trains (or shorter coaches) and are also narrower than the ideal - if you want a more scenically pleasing layout then a “less gives more” approach allows you to spread things out a bit.

 

For reference, this a plan I drew up eighteen months ago now for a Deane-pattern Branch Line in a space similar to yours:

 

 

As has already been noted, the reach needed from the central operating well to the back of the Fiddle Yard is a constraint, particularly if you don’t want to knock things over at the front of the layout.  I gave myself a 2’ limit.  Note also I didn’t pursue this - I figured I’d have spent too much time stretching over to ‘drive’ the Fiddle Yard.  But drawing it out in Anyrail helped me see what it looked like, which is why I share it here - as part of the refining process it was a valuable exercise.

 

I’m afraid I can’t be much more help - in the end I resolved my own space dilemma (it kept getting even smaller than this) by switching to Narrow Gauge modelling, but I learned a lot exploring UK OO layout planning ideas and benefitted from some great advice I still draw on.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Nearholmer]

I suppose one option to get 360 scenery, and not have to reach, for those averse to a the odd bit of reaching, might be to put the FY on the entry side, facing outwards, perhaps curled round one end a bit to avoid the FY being on the entry flap, and full of trains just when you need to make a swift exit for a pee.

[Harlequin]

2 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I suppose one option to get 360 scenery, and not have to reach, for those averse to a the odd bit of reaching, might be to put the FY on the entry side, facing outwards, perhaps curled round one end a bit to avoid the FY being on the entry flap, and full of trains just when you need to make a swift exit for a pee.

Exactly. This would be good way for the OP to arrange a Deane pattern FY.

How to combine the lifting flap with the continuous backscene might be tricky, though.

[Nearholmer]

To me, the bigger question is how to avoid the FY being on the flap.

 

Maybe one of those hockey-stick FYs might fit at one end, but I'm not convinced.

 

Needs a drawing really ..........

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

I suppose one option to get 360 scenery, and not have to reach, for those averse to a the odd bit of reaching, might be to put the FY on the entry side, facing outwards,

What about some really outside the box thinking (at least for British modellers!) and make the fiddleyard scenic??!! The real railways have (or at least, did have) yards and they couldn't hide them away. Detail it like a small marshalling yard and what's the difference? It seems a shame to me to hide half your given space for a home roundy-roundy layout. I don't even have a storage yard on my layout, scenic or hidden. Granted, it takes a bit of imagination to think where my arriving train has come from, but really no more than if it emerged from behind a view-blocker. In either case it has only come from the other side of the layout, instead of a journey of 100 miles or more, and I get to enjoy the "360° experience".

[Nearholmer]

Can't argue with that, especially since I'm in the foothills of a new layout which won't have a hidden FY, merely a visible carriage siding, but I have to say that I'm already feeling the want of somewhere for trains to disappear for a bit ........... not being able to see them for a while helps convince my tiny mind that they've gone a long way away, rather than just behind my shoulder.

[jimmythedog]

OK, guys thanks again for all your help
Decided to have a another attempt at getting something done

Went back to Nearholmer's suggestion of basing something on Coldean
I've taken note of people's comments about the FY reach, so I decided to try putting the station's on the shorter edges (not sure if that was a suggestion from Nearholmer too?), which means that the reach to the FY is now far less, and there's now a nice simple lift out section (thinking that a viaduct may be nice there?)

Does this attempt seem feasible?

Once again, thanks for help & patience

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by jimmythedog
updated image

[Chimer]

That could be developed into something.  As it stands, your maximum passenger train length would be two coaches, and even at that you'd be struggling to run round a train in the terminus. But the terminus has room to grow a bit, especially if you move the lift-out section as far to the left as possible.  It might be possible to run the continuous line behind the terminus rather than in front of it, allowing you more length for the fiddle yard.  And rather than a tiny second station on the left hand side, some sort of industry might have possibilities ......

 

I might just have a play tomorrow!

Edited February 21, 2022 by Chimer
un-auto correct

[jimmythedog]

6 hours ago, Chimer said:

That could be developed into something.  As it stands, your maximum passenger train length would be two coaches, and even at that you'd be struggling to run round a train in the terminus. But the terminus has room to grow a bit, especially if you move the lift-out section as far to the left as possible.  It might be possible to run the continuous line behind the terminus rather than in front of it, allowing you more length for the fiddle yard.  And rather than a tiny second station on the left hand side, some sort of industry might have possibilities ......

 

I might just have a play tomorrow!

Thanks Chimer,

All good, positive criticisms - back to the drawing board...

[jimmythedog]

Hi Chimer - had another stab at the RHS, but a bit concerned about the reach at bottom RHS?

Was that what you had in mind?

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by jimmythedog

[jimmythedog]

Just realized that bottom RHS is accessible from outside anyway, so reach is not a problem there

[Chimer]

5 hours ago, jimmythedog said:

Hi Chimer - had another stab at the RHS, but a bit concerned about the reach at bottom RHS?

Was that what you had in mind?

 

Almost exactly - I've got this far, but can't get the terminus platform how I'd like it, so am thinking of moving the bridge south a few inches to see if that helps.  I've used 3rd radius curves, but 2nd would save more precious inches.

 

 

You will see I'm thinking to leave the fiddle yard out in the open, but (somehow!) not obviously visible when you're looking at the terminus.  I've been aiming to allow for 3-coach trains of Mk 1 stock, usually hauled by something like a 2-6-4T.  The two dead-end sidings could act as opposite ends of a shuttle run for a DMU.  I'm sure I can fit in a bit of a goods yard at the terminus somehow.  I'll keep playing about with this for my own interest ....

 

One critical fault on yours is that you can't use the run-round loop in the terminus as it stands - the track above the top point needs to be longer than the loco, so probably at least 10", allowing for a buffer stop.

 

More to follow ,,,,

[Flying Pig]

I really don't think this is the best use of the space.  The station and a 90+ degree curve are squeezed across one of the short sides of the room and the buffers are hard up against the fiddle yard.

 

Would a through station top and left with the fy bottom right work?

[jimmythedog]

Perhaps I'm trying to shoehorn Coldean into the space, and it's not really working?

[Harlequin]

On 22/02/2022 at 20:43, jimmythedog said:

Perhaps I'm trying to shoehorn Coldean into the space, and it's not really working?

Yes, I think you might be right. I think Coldean is really designed for a different kind of space.

 

A simple single track roundy-round might suit the space better. Something roughly like this maybe:

 

The lifting flap is combined with one of the sharp radius corners, which you wouldn't want to see in the scenic area if you can avoid it. So two birds with one stone.

 

With the lifting flap pushed to one side there's enough length for a simple fiddle yard, if you want it.

 

The fiddle yard could have a backscene or some sort of view blocker in front of it to get some of the Coldean feel if you wanted. And the lifting flap could be hidden somehow so that in the operating well all you see is scenery and railway.

 

The station would have a passing loop and a goods yard.

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Harlequin

[AndyB]

Or potentially could the FY be a simple traverser?  

[Chimer]

I thought I'd complete the exercise anyway .... that's a factory sending/receiving vanload traffic, and an associated halt, on the left hand side.

 

[jimmythedog]

Thanks again all, decisions, decisions...

[jimmythedog]

13 hours ago, Chimer said:

I thought I'd complete the exercise anyway .... that's a factory sending/receiving vanload traffic, and an associated halt, on the left hand side.

Hi Chimer,
I like that - would you mind sharing the XtrkCad file? (I'm assuming it's XtrkCad?)

Many thanks

[Chimer]

6 minutes ago, jimmythedog said:

Hi Chimer,
I like that - would you mind sharing the XtrkCad file? (I'm assuming it's XtrkCad?)

Many thanks

 

No problem, just PM me your email address (can't attach the file here).

 

Cheers, Chris