Minimal HO rural terminus

[Guest Jack Benson]

Thanks to a visit to Virginia in the early ‘70s and a week’s shore leave, the ‘Virginia Creeper’ has been on the back burner. Except, I missed out on the King Mill kit of Green Cove depot and the N&W mastadon is replaced by a Spectrum consolidation but I still want to build a tiny rural terminus with the theme of the prohibition era. Rather than a depot, a cafe store that sells gas (shades of Lawless) will be the only large structure, the Banta kit looks about right.

 

Has anyone attempted anything similar- a really minimal presentation of a rural terminus?

 

Thanks and StaySafe

 

 

[AndrewC]

In general the end of the line needed to have some reason to exist and would be a bit less minimal. What would be more plausible is a tiny whistle stop on the line with a faux representation of it continuing onwards. Perhaps a wash out causing trains to terminate temporarily. It would still require some coaling and water facilities but no need for turning. 

[F-UnitMad]

It's not really within micro-layout territory, but I am slowly working on a minimalist O Scale terminus of my own, as a light diversion from other things.

It's about 3'6" x 20", just two stub spurs, and a fairly substantial Depot, in line with Andrew's comments above.

 

 

Currently hand-laying the track. Ties from coffee stirrers, tie plates from Right-O-Way, old Code 100 rail, spiked with Peco track pins...

 

[Guest Jack Benson]

Hi,

 

All good points however the timeframe is the ‘20/30s and the shortline would have been the only connection with the outside world possibly 25kms distant therefore still open although still run on a shoestring. No need for any railroad facilities, maybe not even a platform but there would be a lockup on some staging and fuel/water for the loco. The gas/store/cafe would also house the railroad agency, typical for backwoods life.
 

Possibly no real passenger traffic  but a Roundhouse combine will suffice, finding one will be a different matter. Traffic is essential and the reason for the line was lumber but no need to feature the facility, often they were fed by a spur along the line.  
 

Finally, who sells earlier freight cars, I just need a couple of wooden box cars and flats for lumber, I recall that the 40’ was a relatively modern innovation in the ‘20/30s but that seems to be the ‘standard’ offering for HO. 
 

Please note this really is a minimal representation, the visual clues are taken from photos of the Abingdon line in the ‘30s, zero frills, just the basics. Even the proposed name of ‘Antioch’ is appropriate to the scene.

 

I will leave you with the most famous image of Old Maude by the master himself, this started the quest over 50 years ago.

 

StaySafe

 

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

43 minutes ago, RailroadRich said:

your minimal terminus would need some sort of industry in the background (a grain silo or lumber pickup point etc)

My terminus is loosely based on a real place, Lucinda, PA.

 

There was a lumber mill further downtown; flat cars were switched into the spur (still in place, above) to be tipped by a big forklift which then ran the lumber packs down the road, so the 'Industry' can be off scene quite legitimately.

The depot was on a through-line originally. Rail service was stopped around 2000 or so, the depot is now a small museum I think.

 

[Guest Jack Benson]

That’s perfect, I have a much used trackplan that I intend to ‘tweak’ by removing the three-way and one siding, this will reduce the overall width to from 60cm to 40cm 

 

Although american railroads didn’t lack space, they also had the same restrictions imposed by topography and this location is in a very narrow valley in the Appalachians. 
 

The loco shed will be replaced by the water/fuel road, whilst the station buildings will be replaced by the lockup on a stage. Finally the barn will morph into the ‘Whistle Stop Cafe’

 

That’s about it.

 

 

 

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

All good points however the timeframe is the ‘20/30s

 

5 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

Possibly no real passenger traffic  but a Roundhouse combine will suffice,

 

Perhaps make a suggestion to Athearn - they have started to offer the form Roundhouse and/or Blue Box passenger stuff under the current Roundhouse brand so they may run it again.

 

5 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

Finally, who sells earlier freight cars, I just need a couple of wooden box cars and flats for lumber, I recall that the 40’ was a relatively modern innovation in the ‘20/30s but that seems to be the ‘standard’ offering for HO.

 

Several options depending on whether you need it now or can wait, and 40' boxcars while new date from at least WW1 (USRA design)

 

Accurail offers a bunch of older stuff in kit form, including some 36' boxcars - http://www.accurail.com/accurail/

 

Athearn has some stuff in their Roundhouse brand, some now in stock and some announced and coming at some point http://www.athearn.com/Products/HO/#rnd

 

At the higher end Rapido have some items that fit your timescale (PRR hopper - in stock, USRA boxcar - in production, and a tank car - order deadline March 15th) - https://rapidotrains.com/

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

No need for any railroad facilities, maybe not even a platform but there would be a lockup on some staging and fuel/water for the loco. The gas/store/cafe would also house the railroad agency, typical for backwoods life.

 

It's possible you may be correct, but it seems unlikely.  If there is sufficient traffic expectation to have built the line in the first place then the railroad would have built facilities.

 

If there are passenger operations there will be a platform - it may be made of wood, or just gravel/cinder, but there will be a platform.

 

Similarly, there will be a station/depot/freight house (though it may be combined into one small building instead of being 2 separate buildings) - but there would need to be a dedicated station agent facility with a place to store parcels/packages/other freight being shipped between trains.  These types of facilities were maintained even for dying branchlines with 1 mixed freight a day.

 

Fuel/water - not strictly necessary, they could be offscene - note the plan for Walkerton Ontario where the engine facilities are on the other side of the river - http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR_Bruce/BRANCHES_2.htm though you can have them if you want - advantage would be adding an occasional coal hopper to your train.  No need for a turntable, it can be offscene or there could be a wye further up the line.

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

Similarly, there will be a station/depot/freight house (though it may be combined into one small building instead of being 2 separate buildings) - but there would need to be a dedicated station agent facility with a place to store parcels/packages/other freight being shipped between trains.

That was my reasoning in using quite a big depot building on such a small layout. I looked at some of the O Scale kits available for 'flagstop' type depots, but they all looked a bit too quaint and 'twee' for what I wanted. 

Admittedly my time period is "recent" as opposed to 100 years ago, but even the depot in the picture of Green Cove is larger than what is more or less a small shed in the OP.

[dave1905]

A lot of it depends on what you mean by "terminus".  Minimal is just a pile of dirt over the end of the track.  No depot, no nothing.

 

When I hi-railed the Texas-New Mexico Sub back in the 1980's, it just ended in the middle of a pasture.  Never actually saw the end of the line, we just hi-railed until the grass was over the tops of the wheels and we couldn't see the track anymore.

No wye, no depot, there was a spur to an industry a mile or so back and a runaround another 5 or so miles further south.

[Pacific231G]

I built such a layout in H0 in the 1970s though mine was a bit more small town than rural (a satisfying number of Walthers kits. plus a grain silo.  I used a small depot from Suydam with the freight/express shed combined witth the passenger Depot and bay window station agent's office.

Have you got access to a copy of Lucius Beebe's Mixed Train Daily? That's full of bucolic rural short lines with very simple facilities. 

 

The plan you're using looks a bit British to my eyes. A fairly standard set up for a small station, whether terminus or passing, would be a double ended siding (passing or run round loop) with a low platform in front of the depot  and a house track just behind the depot with a freight loading platform and a team track behind that with enough space between them for shippers to load and unload their wagons. Unless you particularly want it, the loco shed might not add as much  operational value as another siding and , for N. American steam era, it would need a turntable (or possibly an off state Y) .

FWIW my own rule of thumb for a minimum small terminus that's interesting to operate is to have a run round loop, two sidings facing in one direction and another (likely a private siding) facing the other way and room in the loop for at least five wagons.  That gives a good variety of switching moves while avoiding getting snarled up can be quite challenging.

I can't remember the track plan of my N. American short line terminus but this is the plan for my current French H0 layout and it's about 63 inches long (ignore the tapered board) with all shunting able to be carried out on the board (with a 2-6-0 tank loco) and about four inches longer with a Consolidation. Its basically Inglenook Sidings with a run round and a third siding.

I'm not suggesting you follow it (apart from anything else the curves into some of the turnouts are not well liked by Kadee couplers - they like the two cars involved to be in a straight line) but in terms of length my four wheel wagons are typically four inches long over couplings  and a forty foot car would be about six inches over couplers  so five 40 ft cars in H0 would only need about another ten inches. With eight feet of length you could spread things out a lot more. I've only offered it because it's the most interesting layout to shunt for such a simple setup that I've ever come across.

The combine - maybe with a passenger coach as well if you fancy one- would be entirely adequate for the passengers, mail (which is what kept many of them in business- those or at least their passenger services closed when the US Mail ended the contracts) and express.

Actually Elora maybe with an industry siding instead of the engine shed looks pretty good (though it's not clear whether all three tracks converge) as does Walkerton. though there I'd add a kickback siding just to make things more interesting. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Pacific231G

[Pacific231G]

2 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

 

perhaps terminus means more that just ‘end of the line’ to some folk whereas I envisage just some track with minimal railroad facilities.

 As the topography is a narrow valley, there isn’t much room and I have no idea what is supposed to be a ‘british’ track plan as I have recycled Ebern in Mittelfranken. Most termini require a run round plus some sidings to fulfill the most basic requirement of a transport system to carry and deliver stuff otherwise it is pretty much standard. 

 

@Pacific231G
Thanks for the heads up about Mixed Trains Daily, the one copy on Amazon is now on its way.
 

Track designs often reflect their nationality. It was probably what seemed to be a bay  (though looking again it's more likely a goods siding)  which is something that always feels British (though they weren't actually that common) so interesting that it was really a German one. It rather depends on whether shunting is your thing. If it is then you can get quite a lot in 2.4m x 0.4m without it looking crowded. 

 

A real treat awaits you with Mixed Train Daily (though short lines in the South that still had "Jim Crow" cars were rather sad.)

 

[F-UnitMad]

16 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

perhaps terminus means more that just ‘end of the line’ to some folk whereas I envisage just some track with minimal railroad facilities

Yes perhaps the word 'terminus' changes what different people envisage. There is also the aspect of what the Railroad's expectations were when their line was built. Some towns were the end of the line only for a few months or years until the line extended further, in such cases the facilities might well have changed as a result.

Loking forward to seeing your layout, Jack.

[dave1905]

It changes with the origin and evolution of the railroad.

 

If it's a branch or short line that has had part of it abandoned, the "terminus" will probably be at a runaround or just short of a bridge (less expense to maintain).  Since before the abandonment that was just a station in the middle of the run, the "new" terminus won't have any facilities more than what it had as a station in the middle.

 

If it was a branch or short line that was built and intentionally had a terminus at the end, then it might have turning facilities, a yard, engine facilities, etc.

 

If it's a branch line of a railroad that was spun off as a short line, it might not have any engine facilities at all anyplace on the line because the larger railroad that it was part of, kept its facilities at a larger location, not on a branch.  In that case the short line might have minimal facilities created or recycled from previous tracks.  Most likely the facilities would be closer to the connection with the larger railroad than further away.  If you put the critical facilities at the end of the line then every day, every train has to operate the entire line.  If you put the facilities closer to the connection then you only have to operate over the portion of the line that has traffic on that day.

 

A modern short line will have minimal capital investment, so they won't add any new facilities above what they absolutely have to and will try to minimize fixed facilities.  In other words, rather than build a fueling rack, they will fuel direct from a truck.  Rather than building a run around, they will use two engines, one on either end of the cut.

 

Depending on which scenario you are modeling, the terminus could look very different and which one you choose, can be used to support the backstory of the layout.

[D9020 Nimbus]

The September 2010 issue of Model Railroader has a track plan based on various stations on the Abingdon branch, including the terminus (West Jefferson) which had a wye. The plans for the individual stations were based on N&W track charts.

[long island jack]

How about Big Eagle RR

 

https://appalachianrailroadmodeling.com/railroads/current-day-appalachian-railroads/wfrr-winifrede-railroad/

[F-UnitMad]

2 hours ago, dave1905 said:

If you put the critical facilities at the end of the line then every day, every train has to operate the entire line.  If you put the facilities closer to the connection then you only have to operate over the portion of the line that has traffic on that day.

@dave1905 Thank you so much for your comments and input to RMweb - gems like this snippet from your post above are invaluable, and really do help those of us trying to model US trains from the wrong side of The Pond.  

 

[mdvle]

3 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

No plans to acquire a combine but I need something quite old and no more than 50’

 

This will likely be the hardest.

 

In terms of currently available items a combine is a problem - Athearn just announced one but at 8.5" (approx 60') it is longer than what you want and unfortunately only available in a set of Combine/Diner/Observation.  These are due April next year - https://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=Arch Roof Coach RTR&CatID=TH&NYA=True

 

Due August this year are Athearn's re-run of their 34' Overton passenger cars - coaches available separately but again the combine is in a set, this time of 4 cars.  These may be too old for your purposes http://www.athearn.com/newsletter/062521/10_RND_34'_Overton_Passenger_062521.pdf

 

Not currently available is the 50' Overland passenger cars, again a combine included in a multipack.  This was offered at least 10 years ago.  The offering in 2010 was under the Roundhouse brand, there is an entry on the Athearn website (with nothing in it) now under RTR so it is possible they may be intending on a new run of these though you would be looking at 12 months from the date they announce - if they announce.  Archive PDF from 2010 - http://www.athearn.com/newsletter/072010/13_RND_Overland_072010.pdf

 

If nothing else perhaps these will provide some search terms looking for older releases being sold secondhand.

Edited March 3, 2022 by mdvle

[Guest Jack Benson]

Just a progress report, thanks to Mvdle’s suggestion to look out for Roundhouse and changing the keyword search, a rather odd ‘baggage’ car with passenger accommodation was found. It is a 50’ car with a distinctly elderly appearance but as they say in Yorkshire ‘that’ll do’ once it has been repainted in SR olive green.

 

Other bonus finds was Hatton’s stock of Jordan Highway Miniatures which I managed to deplete, all are ‘20s Fords and my only research was this surprisingly useful link Lawless cars 

 

Thanks also to Long Island Jack for his suggestion to look at Big Eagle RR, just one loco and running on a shoestring, it also had once enjoyed the use of a 2-8-0. Finally, a copy of MR Sept ‘10 has been sourced and it will be interesting to note the actual image of the Virginia Creeper as opposed to very faded memories of an abandoned line.

 

Nothing more to add until the kits for the boards arrive in due course, I have to fit Kadees to an uncooperative Athearn caboose which will be relettered as a very bogus N&W, if there are enough decals in the pack, I might use a pair on the 2-8-0, equally bogus. 
 

StaySafe
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Jack Benson]

Hi,

A revised trackplan that just fits the available space, just a inglenook+loop. The MR with the Abingdon branch has appeared together with Iain Rice's interpretation of the same, both are nice to see but I have just 3mx400mm. Therefore it will be nothing more than a working diorama.

And a rather odd loco pitched up, it is a diecast 4-4-2 maybe Mantua, an very crude model that will just sit on the teamtrack.

 

 

Any ideas?

 

StaySafe

[JZ]

SP Class A-3?

Photo from Wikipedia

 

[Night Train]

FOS Kits and Bar Mills have a few small buildings in their inventory that might be suitable. Small and mimimal, but still big enough to provide a purpose for the railway to be there.

https://barmillsmodels.com/product/rea-depot-at-cranberry-yard-ho/

https://barmillsmodels.com/product/springfield-stations/

https://fosscalemodels.com/collections/ho-scale-kits/products/yard-office-three-ho-scale-kit

https://fosscalemodels.com/collections/ho-scale-kits/products/tower-two-ho-scale-kit

 

If you dont like wooden kits and prefer a plastic one, the Woodland Scenics depot kits might work.

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/woodland-scenics-wd239-flag-depot-hooo?_pos=19&_sid=a0de7ebb6&_ss=r

 

[pH]

5 hours ago, JZ said:

SP Class A-3?

Photo from Wikipedia

 

Footplate is quite different. #3001 was A-1 class. Class was built as Vauclain compounds, and the ones that stayed with SP remained like that till scrapped:

 

http://espee.railfan.net/sp_steam_a-01.html

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/southern-pacific-railroad-locomotive-19963590

 

Six went to SP subsidiary Texas and New Orleans, and were rebuilt as simples, which is the state the model is in. I think it’s a rebuilt A-1 in SP colour scheme.

 

(I think the model is Mehano, but I lost the reference.)

 

 

[Guest WM183]

On 01/03/2022 at 19:21, Pacific231G said:

I built such a layout in H0 in the 1970s though mine was a bit more small town than rural (a satisfying number of Walthers kits. plus a grain silo.  I used a small depot from Suydam with the freight/express shed combined witth the passenger Depot and bay window station agent's office.

Have you got access to a copy of Lucius Beebe's Mixed Train Daily? That's full of bucolic rural short lines with very simple facilities. 

 

The plan you're using looks a bit British to my eyes. A fairly standard set up for a small station, whether terminus or passing, would be a double ended siding (passing or run round loop) with a low platform in front of the depot  and a house track just behind the depot with a freight loading platform and a team track behind that with enough space between them for shippers to load and unload their wagons. Unless you particularly want it, the loco shed might not add as much  operational value as another siding and , for N. American steam era, it would need a turntable (or possibly an off state Y) .

FWIW my own rule of thumb for a minimum small terminus that's interesting to operate is to have a run round loop, two sidings facing in one direction and another (likely a private siding) facing the other way and room in the loop for at least five wagons.  That gives a good variety of switching moves while avoiding getting snarled up can be quite challenging.

I can't remember the track plan of my N. American short line terminus but this is the plan for my current French H0 layout and it's about 63 inches long (ignore the tapered board) with all shunting able to be carried out on the board (with a 2-6-0 tank loco) and about four inches longer with a Consolidation. Its basically Inglenook Sidings with a run round and a third siding.

I'm not suggesting you follow it (apart from anything else the curves into some of the turnouts are not well liked by Kadee couplers - they like the two cars involved to be in a straight line) but in terms of length my four wheel wagons are typically four inches long over couplings  and a forty foot car would be about six inches over couplers  so five 40 ft cars in H0 would only need about another ten inches. With eight feet of length you could spread things out a lot more. I've only offered it because it's the most interesting layout to shunt for such a simple setup that I've ever come across.

The combine - maybe with a passenger coach as well if you fancy one- would be entirely adequate for the passengers, mail (which is what kept many of them in business- those or at least their passenger services closed when the US Mail ended the contracts) and express.

Actually Elora maybe with an industry siding instead of the engine shed looks pretty good (though it's not clear whether all three tracks converge) as does Walkerton. though there I'd add a kickback siding just to make things more interesting. 

The Pennsy had baggage/mail/passenger combines to serve their myriad Appalachia branches for just this service! A little PRR consol a boxcar or two and one of those PBM cars would make a great little train.

[Pacific231G]

2 hours ago, WM183 said:

The Pennsy had baggage/mail/passenger combines to serve their myriad Appalachia branches for just this service! A little PRR consol a boxcar or two and one of those PBM cars would make a great little train.

My combine was a Canadian National - though it was probably available in other liveries so I've no idea how autherntic it was. Though I very much like Consolidations, I'm wondering whether a 2-8-0 might be a bit on the large size for a short line with short trains might not  a Mogul be more appropriate.