HELP - problem with wiring for signal with route indicator

[Graham108]

So I have an Eckon 2-aspect signal with route indicator, and I've wired to a 12v DC supply as per the attached pdf. If I have the colour lights off (the SPST is centre-off) then the R/I illuminates. However when I switch the SPST to light one of the signal lights, the R/I goes out. I'm stumped. Anybody able to point out what I've got wrong please?

Eckon wiring.pdf

[melmerby]

I would suggest a separate resistor for the RI, else the current for both is going through the same resistor.

Different leds have different voltage drops so the lower voltage drop across red or yellow leds means there isn't enough to light the white.

 

Ideally all leds should have their own dropper resistors.

I personally would put the resistors between the switches and the leds and use a common ground (-ve) instead.

 

Was the resistor supplied and was there more than one?

Edited March 1, 2022 by melmerby

[Brian]

Hi

The Eckon signal with J/I has two resistors supplied. One for the J/I white LED and the other for the two aspects .

 

The J/I should only illuminate when the signal shows a proceed aspect (In this case the Yellow) 

 

You need two switches  One is an On/Off and the other a On/On switch  The On/On operates the two aspects and the On/Off controls the J/I when the signal displays a Yellow.  You should not need a centre Off switch.   Aspect and J/I control can also be switched with one 3 position Rotary switch, so as Pos 1 is red, Pos 2 is Yellow and Pos 3 is yellow and J/I.

 

The alternative to using a toggle switch for Sw2 is to use a point operated switch so as when the point is set towards the turnout direction the J/I will illuminate once aspect the controlling Sw1 is set to the proceed direction.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Brian
Text corrected

[Graham108]

@melmerbyMany thanks for the quick response - so what I think you're suggesting is the lower drawing on the attachment. Or do I need a resistor for each of the RED & YELLOW LED's (Just seen Brian's reply so I guess I dont')

 

I have loads of resistors. If I've understood correctly I'll look to change things later in the week.

Eckon wiring - 2.pdf

Edited March 1, 2022 by Graham108
Additional info

[Graham108]

20 minutes ago, Brian said:

Hi

The Eckon signal with J/I has two resistors supplied. One for the J/I white LED and the other for the two aspects .

 

The J/I should only illuminate when the signal shows a proceed aspect (In this case the Yellow) 

 

You need two switches  One is an On/Off and the other a On/On switch  The On/On operates the two aspects and the On/Off controls the J/I when the signal displays a Yellow.  You should not need a centre Off switch.   Aspect and J/I control can also be switched with one 3 position Rotary switch, so as Pos 1 is red, Pos 2 is Yellow and Pos 3 is yellow and J/I.

 

The alternative to using a toggle switch for Sw2 is to use a point operated switch so as when the point is set towards the turnout direction the J/I will illuminate once aspect the controlling Sw1 is set to the proceed direction.

 

 

 

Thanks @BrianBrian - I only had the centre off switch to hand - but I see what you're talking about and will look to incorporate your wiring option.

[Michael Hodgson]

30 minutes ago, Brian said:

The J/I should only illuminate when the signal shows a proceed aspect (In this case the Yellow) 

 

Not quite true ... it would be considered a wrong side failure if the signal were to show a proceed with the route set to divert but the JI unlit.   So the prototype has lamp proving circuitry over the JI which prevents this.

 

if the route is set to the branch, when signal is cleared the JI lights up first and the proceed aspect only lights once the circuits have proved the JI alight.  This is a transient effect lasting only perhaps a half-second, but red plus JI is very noticeable with traditional incandescent bulbs and relay-based locking, though not necessarily always the case necause of other technologies.

 

If you want to see this for yourself, visit the London Transport Museum at Covent Garden, they've got a 3-aspect signal with feather wired to some miniature levers that yoy can play with. 

[melmerby]

 

On 01/03/2022 at 10:22, Graham108 said:

@melmerbyMany thanks for the quick response - so what I think you're suggesting is the lower drawing on the attachment. Or do I need a resistor for each of the RED & YELLOW LED's (Just seen Brian's reply so I guess I dont')

 

 

Brian's suggestion will work fine.

Both switches can be "single pole double throw" (SPDT) but one contact is not used on the RI

(image lost)

The centre pin is the common input and the two outer ones the outputs. the RI will just use the centre and one outer connection.

(Image lost)

To keep things neat I would put R1 in the bottom lead to the route indicator and connect the SW2 direct to the route indicator

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by melmerby

[Brian]

Michael Hodson .... As a former BR Signalling Engineer of 43 years I know exactly how a J/I and the main aspects and route work. 

In the model form the simplest is to allow the proceed aspect to be lit and then the  J/I as needed.   

There is no lamp proving for the J/I LED in the model, so using the proceed aspect(s) to allow it to be lit is the simplest.

 

Your post, while technically correct,  adds little to the OPs question and to answer how to wire such.

[melmerby]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Not quite true ... it would be considered a wrong side failure if the signal were to show a proceed with the route set to divert but the JI unlit.   So the prototype has lamp proving circuitry over the JI which prevents this.

 

 

True for prototype but for simple junction with switches not so easy,

You can do it with diodes but it then gets more complex.

[Graham108]

@melmerby@BrianThanks for  your help yesterday - now all sorted and working as expected.

[Izzy]

I don’t know how your points are worked but I have used a micro-switch connected to the relevant one in place of Sw2 so that it’s direction dictates whether the feather/route indicator is lit or not when the green aspect is lit.