Any experience with saving part of a layout?

[Dungrange]

As secretary of my local model railway club, I received an e-mail from a woman asking if the club would be interested in buying her late father's narrow gauge model railway (009).  Scenically, the layout has been built to a standard that could be exhibited, but alas it was built as a permanent home layout, so would be of no use to us.  The scenic section is about 10' 10" long and about 2' 6" wide.  There is a separate four foot long fiddle yard that is hinged to the main baseboard.  It would be problematic to remove in one piece from a third floor flat, which alas probably means destroying the layout and sending it to landfill.  However, I've been asked whether it would be possible to save part of the layout as a static diorama.  I'm therefore wanting some advice on how easy this would be?

 

As far as I can tell, the builder constructed three frames from 2" x 1" timber with bracing every six inches or so in both directions.  These are screwed together and presumably glued.  These three frames have then been bolted together to form one baseboard and then placed across about four supports.  These are attached to the wall using shelf brackets at the rear, and the front is supported by metal tubes (a bit like the hanging rail in a wardrobe).  On top of that, the builder appears to have laid sheets of Sundeala and then started building the layout.  I'm not certain what has been used for the scenic forming, but suspect that it may be expanded polystyrene that has been painted over with a paint / plaster mix.

 

In terms of trying to 'carefully' break the layout up, I'm assuming that if someone was to try and separate the Sundeala from the substructure that the scenic section that she would like to save some of, would disintegrate as the Sundeala wouldn't have enough strength to withstand being removed from the timber frame underneath.  Would that assumption be correct?  If so, that doesn't seem the best approach.

 

That then means looking at breaking the layout at the joins between the frames that support the Sundeala.  These are screwed together and may not be glued, in which case all that would need to be cut would be the Sundeala, track, ballast and polystyrene used to form the contours.  That doesn't sound overly difficult, but what tools would need to be used?  I'm assuming that the starting point would be to cut through the rails with a hacksaw and then use a knife to cut through the top of the scenery.  A larger rip saw could then be used once the track and the top of the scenery was cut to go through the Sundeala.  Would that sound reasonable?  Obviously, if not cutting at the frame joins, then there will be half a dozen 2" x 1" timber braces to saw through.

 

I've been asked who could do this work, but I'm not sure that I can recommend anyone.  If anyone can offer any words of wisdom, I'd be grateful.

[locomad2]

Yes done similar jobs in the past, my childhood (2nd layout) got saved, cut up transported to my 2nd house ( into attic), then reused parts on my existing 7th layout. I've also moved from garage to summer house then bedroom, one just needs to think, take care but it saves a lot of rebuilding

 

Use hand tools to cut sundala, try to cut right angle, you might from underneath need to add extra supports and leave a gap to cut between. The main reason is to stop vibration using power tools, track needs to be removed or cut with a dremel. Wires if need cutting need proper labelling easy to repair using block connectors.

 

If chicken wire then plaster used in scenic mountains that can be a problem, you need to support after and repair, Polystyrene or form easy to cut though using a large hand saw very slowly expect some damage at edges 

[Dungrange]

 

 

Above are a couple of photographs that show the layout in question from the top (looking in both directions along the length of the layout).  Below are a couple of photographs of the frame structure underneath

 

[DCB]

Looks like a nice layout. It's not that big. but its built like a 19th century battleship.

As I see it an 11ft X 2ft 6" layout is one 6ft and one 5ft module plus the FY. That's one cut and one unscrewed FY.   One timber cut, one through the track and one through the wiring.  Not half a dozen cuts here there and everywhere. A 6ft long board will go through doorways vertically.   I would cut somewhere in the middle and unscrew as much as possible of the framing from the walls and legs and get a few mates to hump the three chunks from the property.  Sawing really needs a fine toothed saw used carefully, not a Pounland coarse tooth, to cut the vibration, and used to saw through sundela, wood etc but not a bunch of screws or nails.   Get the screws out first and don't be afraid to bring in lots of lumber and the odd car jack to support the layout while cutting.    

[SamThomas]

I agree with DCB - not that much work to dismantle.

 

Label & cut the wiring, razor saw through the track, undo the fixings between the 5 & 6' boards & carefully cut through the scenary with a hacksaw blade fitted into an old school padsaw handle.

 

Looks like a nice layout to me & (IMHO) it would be an act of vandalism to destroy it for want of a bit of time & effort.

[Nick C]

It might be worth looking at an oscillating multitool to do the cuts to the framing/sundeala, they're very controllable. Or a proper Japanese flushcut saw, which have very fine blades designed for intricate work.

[fulton]

Not wishing to pour cold water on things, I've seen layouts like this before, much loved and enjoyed by the builder, but they are no longer here, unless someone falls in love with it and takes it on, it will get damaged even with careful dismantling, then will sit unloved and without any interest, taking up space and will eventually go to the tip, better to recover as much as possible then skip the rest, sounds hard but few layouts will live on forever. Photo of my garage sized layout of twenty years, much enjoyed but things move on and am very pleased to be building something new.

[Dungrange]

On 04/03/2022 at 10:57, fulton said:

Not wishing to pour cold water on things, I've seen layouts like this before, much loved and enjoyed by the builder, but they are no longer here, unless someone falls in love with it...

 

The voice of reason.  Yes, it's a nice layout (which is why I went to see it), but I don't want it: I don't model in 009 and I don't have the space to accommodate it even if I did.  Whilst we have a few club members who have 009 stock, none have expressed an interest in acquiring the layout and as we're currently building a 009 layout in the club, there is no enthusiasm to take on another 009 project.  As a club, we also don't have the space to store it without scrapping something else.  That therefore means that 75% of the layout will end up in landfill even if some consider that an act of vandalism.

 

The only person who has 'fallen in love with it' is the woman who wants rid of it, simply because it reminds her of her father and how he spent much of his time during lockdowns over the last couple of years.  As such, she's only looking to save part of the layout: probably the station area -as a non-working diorama - something that could sit on a shelf.  That means that there is no need to worry about labelling wiring etc.

 

I think to summarise the advice given here is to avoid the use of power tools, use a fine toothed saw and cut slowly.  I presume that cutting should start from the top rather than underneath, but probably means cutting out the wiring first.

 

I think it should be possible to cut longitudinally through the car park behind the station building, by unscrewing each of the short timber braces underneath and hopefully knocking these out with a hammer (unless a lot of glue has been used) and then I'd only have the Sundeala to cut.  The two perpendicular cuts to get the bit she'd like to save would mean cutting the track with a Dremel and then using a fine toothed saw to cut through the Sundeala and scenic contours before attacking the 2" x 1" timber frame.  Once she has the section that she would like to keep, the rest can be broken up and disposed of.  Sadly that is what will happen to most of our layouts when we are no longer here.

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Dungrange said:

The only person who has 'fallen in love with it' is the woman who wants rid of it, simply because it reminds her of her father and how he spent much of his time during lockdowns over the last couple of years.  As such, she's only looking to save part of the layout: probably the station area -as a non-working diorama - something that could sit on a shelf.  That means that there is no need to worry about labelling wiring etc.

 

 

When my father passed it was my job to clear out the flat - it had an American themed layout along the longest wall.

 

As he had given away all the stock to his plumber a few months before, for reasons I don't want to go into, when it came time to take the railway itself apart I took a circular saw with me, there was to be no fine dissection.  In the event, I actually found I could rip it apart with my bare hands and the brute force was quite catcarthic.  The remains went to the tip and I got the vac out for all the little bits left on the carpet.

Edited March 9, 2022 by woodenhead

[fulton]

I am sure it will make a nice diorama for the daughter, I have not used myself but I am told a multi tool cuts very well with little vibration, compared to a jigsaw, I think I would start dismantling what is not wanted and gradually "chip away" back to the wanted section, good luck.

[RichardT]

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I actually found I could rip it apart with my bare hands and the brute force was quite catcarthic.

As someone who a year ago was clearing out his own dad’s flat, I can empathise.

 

Richard

Edited March 9, 2022 by RichardT
Superfluous words

[RobinofLoxley]

I had an experience about 4 years ago, roundabout when I started posting here, one of my sons asked me to look at a loft layout one of his work colleagues had inherited when he bought a house. It was N gauge, well built, complex, even still had some stock on it. The guy thought he would get a lot of money for it, as a going concern, but it would have been days of work to extricate it  just to save the scenery really; all the value was in the track and stock. I advised him to sell the stock on ebay; he could lift the track etc and sell that too for less return for work, but in the end apart from the loose stuff it was all binned. Imagine buying a house and finding a DCC 2-level layout in the loft!

[Happy Hippo]

This rather sad but all too common saga reminds me of why I decided many years ago to only built model railways that were put together so they could be dismantled and transported easily, even if I didn't intend exhibiting them.

[DCB]

The flog the stock and strip off the track works well with a starter layout with pinned track and no ballasting but when the track is glued and ballasted the track gets mangled when you lift it.  Mangled track with sleepers missing and points with loose rails is a bit of a niche market which only people like me who are interested in and I only pay a quid for a point or yard of track.   

Most of the value of the layout shown is in the quality of the build.  Getting £10 for the mangled track will be like a kick in the teeth for the daughter....