Blue Era Parcels and Mail Trains-- Brake Vans?

[Crepello]

I'm aware of guards not being required on most fitted freights from 1969, but did this apply to parcels and mail trains,  or was a BG or similar vehicle required too? 

[Wickham Green too]

Unlike a freight train, the guard would have had responsibility for the load and for operation at the stations - between which he could probably concentrate on reading his paper.

[bécasse]

And he would have been a passenger, rather than goods, guard.

[Simon Lee]

44 minutes ago, bécasse said:

And he would have been a passenger, rather than goods, guard.

Not necessarily as goods guards could work passenger and parcels trains, but not the other way round.

[The Stationmaster]

The need for a Guard's van ended on parcels trains ended at the same time that freight brakevans ceased to be used on fully fitted freight trains.  The only time from then on that a Guard would be required on the train, instead of loco back cab, would be if non-railway staff were travelling on that train - e.g. a Post Office Courier rode on some parcels trains which conveyed Letter Mail especially if Registered Mail was being carried in any quantity.

 

Passenger brakevans might still be used, and were, in parcels train formations because they were large bogie vehicles with good capacity and could run at higher speeds then many 4 wheel vans.  But the Guard would be in the back cab - much cosier

 

From the implementation of the P&E Agreements in 1967/68 Guards were placed in a single grade and all that differed then was the extent to which they were trained in particular duties.  Thus at the place where I spent quite a chunk of the 1970s we has a small separate passenger link for Guards who worked passenger trains who were trained to act as Conductors, using one of the then WR types of ticket issuing machine, and they also had Excess Fare pads.  The bulk of my Guards were in the freight link but couldn't cover passenger trains because they weren't trained for the job and didn't sign all the routes the passenger link signed.  So even once they were all in the same grade different work requirements made it very difficult for Guards to cross cover and that would be the same at any depot.  However at an earlier location one link of our Guards did have one booked job on a parcels trains and all our other work was freight.

[The Johnster]

I was in the bottom freight guards’ link at Canton from 1970-75, when I was transferred to a Valleys passenger link and trained in the use of Setrite and Omniprinter ticket machines and given an excess fare pad.  Even this lowly freight link included regular booked parcels jobs, which were ‘back cab’  and some passenger work, including relieving a Swindon man at Swindon on a down Paddinton-Swansea after working an up Freightliner, this a Sunday job.  We also had a Sunday return dmu job to Hereford and a combined passenger/parcels weekday turn, dmu off Canton for Cardiff-Bristol, parcels Bristol-Newport then back to Bristol, then dmu Bristol-Cardiff, set to Canton.  And the early morning return dmu trip to Chepstow.  Another Sunday dmu job was a Cardiff-Cheltenham, then Cheltenham-Worcester-Hereford-Cardiff with the same set. 
 

I was also frequently given rest day work on excursions and similar passenger trains.  I was trained in the operation of the eth and aircon, and the pa, on mk2e stock when it was introduced on the SWML (73?), because of the Sunday Swindon job. 

[w124bob]

As some have already stated, the guard would be in the back cab on any parcels not conveying passengers(includes postal or newspaper packers). The fully fitted freight position is slightly muddled by two things, dangerous goods, guard in a piped brakevan. The other oddity is regarding class 20's(single or paired) there was a rule requiring a pipe fitted brakevan within the train(anywhere)for the guard to ride in. This changed in the mid 80's as the dual braking programme was finished, the loco's had an emergency brake valve fitted specifically for use by the guard in an emergency situation.